ggardenour
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posted on March 19, 2010 12:51:14 PM new
Buyer buys item.
Buyer pays for item.
Item shipped next day.
One week passes and I get a notice that PayPal has a hold on payment because buyers bank reversed payment.
PayPal requests proof of shipment.
I send proof of shipment.
Buyer contacts me telling me that she had insufficient funds in her account and was working with PayPal.
Another week passes and I get notice that I lost the dispute.
I'm screwed out of item and shipping cost and can't leave negative feedback.
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hwahwa
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posted on March 19, 2010 01:05:25 PM new
file for non payment,Ebay will refund your fee and give her a neg strike
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There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
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ggardenour
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posted on March 19, 2010 01:22:10 PM new
I did file for np Still doesn't make me feel better. Looking at the threads it appears that eBays and PayPals way of doing business is wide open to fraud and abuse from buyers.
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shagmidmod
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posted on March 19, 2010 01:55:05 PM new
how much was the item including shipping?
if over $250 did you get a signature upon delivery?
i would call paypal and point out the issue. stay calm, be polite. sometimes they make a mistake and will fix it. i ask one question: what did you do wrong in in this transaction that warranted such a decision.
that question alone is the most important one you can ask because that will explain why they did it. oftentimes you may find that they can't get you an explanation and will reverse it.
mind you, i have had a very similar situation with paypal a few times. i am quite surprised by the outcome here if you followed all of their policies.
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shagmidmod
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posted on March 19, 2010 01:56:51 PM new
also, i would contact the buyer and tell them that you are considering turning it over to the fbi for interstate fraud. If they are in the same state, then you would handle it through the state attorney generals office.
i had a buyer pull this on me a few years back with a very expensive stereo. he returned the stereo to me for fear of the law.
make sure you do not say you will, unless you are absolutely 100% going to do so.
[ edited by shagmidmod on Mar 19, 2010 01:58 PM ]
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hwahwa
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posted on March 19, 2010 02:53:32 PM new
See if you can file with USPS fraud investigation,there is a form you need to fill,did you use the post office to ship your package?
I dont know if this has changed but years ago if a customer paid with a rubber check,the mail order company could file complaint with USPS and USPS would forward a copy to her local police ,so she would be getting 2 notices ,one from USPS and one from her local police.
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There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
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sthoemke
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posted on March 19, 2010 03:06:48 PM new
If she had insufficient funds, why did her bank send the funds in the fist place?!?
Sounds more like the banks fault, than the customer's fault, unfortunately.
Filing for non-payment seems to be the action you need to do. More likely than not, the buyer is not trying to scam you, and hopefully will pay.
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ggardenour
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posted on March 19, 2010 03:19:30 PM new
I guess I should consider myself lucky that in 10 years this is my first issue never a bounced check or any other problems that didn't get resolved so... I am hopeful the buyer makes it right.
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pixiamom
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posted on March 19, 2010 03:39:55 PM new
I think I can top this. Last week, I got an ASQ from buyer who said she never received the item I shipped. She should have received it by now, so I decided to just refund the money. I went in to the PayPal transaction and was confused because the "Issue Refund link" wasn't there. Instead, it stated that if I wanted to refund money, I had to do it through Send Funds in Paypal. OK - confused, I did that. Then I see I have an item awaiting my attention in PayPal's Resolution Center. It was the same message you got, the bank withdrew the funds. I checked out the date and it was filed before I got the ASQ asking where the package is. Grrr, I'm sure the buyer received the card, then found her Paypal bounced and decided the easiest way to deal with it was to claim she never got the shipment. Now she has the item she never paid for and my full refund. I emailed her asking what's going on and never got a response.
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blueyes29
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posted on March 19, 2010 04:13:28 PM new
If your buyer lives in a small town...here's an idea. A number of years ago, I had a similar situation. On a whim, I googled her local police department and wrote a letter explaining the situation and asked if they could offer any assistance in collecting the monies owed me. I had also filed a Post Office Fraud claim. To my utter amazement, several days later, I received a telephone call from a police officer in her town who told me he'd called the lady! Apparently, it was a "slow night in Dodge"! The lady e-mailed me shortly thereafter and asked if I could "call off the dogs" and paid immediately. I realize this was probably a once-in-a-lifetime type experience but thought I'd share...Good luck!
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shagmidmod
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posted on March 19, 2010 06:24:23 PM new
i have a good feeling that as long as you met paypal's requirements for seller protection, you shouldn't have a problem getting this cleared up.
you just need to take the initiative to call and speak with a supervisor at Paypal so that they can review what happened.
If you ask them what you did wrong, you will know whether the "bidder won" is legitimate or not. worse case scenario is you get a picture of where you went wrong so you don't do it again.
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hwahwa
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posted on March 19, 2010 07:03:50 PM new
What could have happened is that she deposited a check and that check later bounced so bank reversed her paypal transaction.
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There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
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shagmidmod
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posted on March 19, 2010 09:59:05 PM new
yes, but the seller shipped the item based on the information provided by Paypal.
i have had this happen before to me with 2 customers. one was on a buying binge and bounced checks in his personal account. even though he paid using his check card as a credit card which gave instant payment, it was returned by the bank even though it was approved by Paypal and ok'd to ship. The first time this happened it took 30 days, and Paypal claimed I lost the case.I called them and they resolved it and refunded my payment.
With every instance where I lose a case I call ebay or Paypal and speak with them. Only one time did I make an error, which was many years ago when I shipped an item to an unconfirmed address. After that, I have followed Paypal guidelines and have always won each case. Each time my first question is what did I do wrong that makes me ineligible for Seller Protection? They review it and either ask me for missing information (which I always have since I follow their Seller Protection policies) or they tell me they don't know why I lost the case and they fix it in my favor.
Problems like this are actually easier to work with Paypal than with eBay. The new dispute process thru eBay is a whole other can of worms because it isn't about what you did wrong, but rather what the buyer claims is wrong and what the buyer wants out of it. Sellers have no defense against "Item Not as Described". INAD is the death of the small to medium size seller.
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merrie
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posted on March 20, 2010 06:35:58 AM new
According to PayPal rules, If it said "Seller Eligible," you should be covered.
If you shipped prior to the check clearing, the PayPal page clearly states "Ineligible."
Very,very frustrating.
[ edited by merrie on Mar 20, 2010 06:36 AM ]
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hwahwa
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posted on March 20, 2010 06:47:28 AM new
There is no way for Paypal to know if the check her buyer deposited is no good until her bank reversed the payment.
Paypal could amend its policy and make us wait another 7-14 days to ship,but how many of us would want that?
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There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
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merrie
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posted on March 20, 2010 07:03:47 AM new
I have already waited 7 -14 days for an echeck to clear. I tell the client that I have to wait for it to clear and they understand.
The notice says to wait until it clears!! When it clears, it says you are covered.
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ggardenour
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posted on March 20, 2010 08:31:28 AM new
The payment was not a echeck it showed as a normal payment.
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hwahwa
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posted on March 20, 2010 09:07:50 AM new
what is a normal payment??
credit card or fund deposited in her paypal account from folks who bought from her or fund she transferred from her bank account.
Anyway,if she said bank reversed the payment,then the fund is coming from her bank .
*
There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
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merrie
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posted on March 20, 2010 09:18:43 AM new
Plus, if the notice said Eligible for Seller Protection, you are covered.
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shagmidmod
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posted on March 20, 2010 10:33:54 AM new
it doesn't have to be an e-check for this to happen. oftentimes buyers will use their checking account debit card as a credit card to make purchases.
banks are more slimy than ebay/paypal in that they will allow a person to go out and overdraw their account when they use their debit card as a credit card. what will happen is that if the account holder doesn't deposit funds to cover these payments within 5 days, the bank will start reversing the payments even though they authorized them. they still charge the account holder NSF fees, and to boot they start charging $5-10 daily negative balance fees. an honest person can get way over their heads with all of these fees tacked on. a crook doesn't really care.
the issue here is whether or not ggardenour shipped an item that was eligible for seller protection and they followed paypal's terms to be covered.
so far ggardenour hasn't clarified whether the payment was Seller Protection eligible and if they followed Paypal's rules to meet that eligibility.
it doesn't seem this seller has followed up regarding this matter with Paypal... which is exactly what Paypal hopes. Paypal can get away with this if the seller doesn't call them on it and follow up. Paypal preys on sellers like this.
So, the questions we need to know is:
1) Was the transaction Seller Protection eligible?
2) Did the seller follow the terms and ship it to the registered address?
3) Did the seller follow up with Paypal and ask why they were not eligible for coverage in this circumstance?
these 3 questions will get to the heart of the matter, otherwise we will continue to just beat a drum and nothing gets done.
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ggardenour
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posted on March 20, 2010 11:16:21 AM new
2) Did the seller follow the terms and ship it to the registered address?
Yes
I got an email from PayPal that stated I lost the dispute after providing proof of shipment everything on my end was done correctly.
I will contact paypal again. This is the first time this has happened to me so thanks for the advice on following up with PayPal.
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hwahwa
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posted on March 20, 2010 02:22:02 PM new
You can send to confirmed address (not registered address) and still not be covered by seller protection.
One case would be if the bidder used a fraudulent credit card.
Read the Paypal seller protection terms.
Of course we all know someone who knows someone who did all the right things and still not covered ,why?too much money and Paypal would not eat the loss!
*
There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
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merrie
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posted on March 20, 2010 07:19:31 PM new
shagmidmod is correct re debit cards, etc. BAC has now stopped allowing debit cards to go over the amount in the account. The transaction will be denied at the cash register if there are not enough funds to cover the transaction.
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merrie
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posted on March 20, 2010 07:20:46 PM new
ggardenour: Did the transaction say in the beginning it was Seller Protection Eligible??
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hwahwa
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posted on March 21, 2010 07:16:34 AM new
I used my Paypal debit card as a credit card to fill gas and buy grocery etc,I get a 1 1/2% rebate from Paypal.
If there is not enough fund in my PAYPAL account,then Paypal will dip into my bank account up to a certain amount .
This is an option we choose-no dipping,200,400 dollars .
If there is not enough fund in my bank account,the card is rejected .
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There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
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fluffythewondercat
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posted on March 24, 2010 01:16:51 PM new
The lady e-mailed me shortly thereafter and asked if I could "call off the dogs" and paid immediately. I realize this was probably a once-in-a-lifetime type experience but thought I'd share
A bidder (long since NARU'd) from Lamar, Colorado bounced two checks totalling $500. Emails and phone calls were fruitless, so I called the local constabulary to file fraud charges.
Apparently Lamar is small enough that they knew about this crook's family and were (shall we say) unsurprised. She forked over the dough not long after.
fLufF
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Free shipping earrings all over the U.S. and Canada since 2008.
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