posted on July 20, 2001 02:29:11 PM new
I used Paypal to buy some concert tickets from a seller who contacted me through eBay. She had tickets to sell on the side (of course I shouldn't have purchased them, but that's another story).
She turned out to be a total fraud and stopped responding once I sent the $. I sent her $510 on Wed June 6th, on Sunday June 10th I contacted Paypal, knowing (since I use them all the time) that they say it takes 3-4 business days to get funds from you account I thought I would be ok.
ESPECIALLY since Paypal immediately marked the transaction as "reversed" and "canceled". I later came to find out I was just stupid because Paypal doesn't really mean "reversed" or "cancelled", they seem to have their own meanings for these words.
After 35 days Paypal contacted me and said yes the seller was at fault (that would be KAREN DEMARCO, [email protected]) but that they now had $0 in their account.
NO s...t Sherlock of course they do when you wait 30 days to do anything! After various emails back and forth, in which they changed their story every time, Paypal finally said that yes I was right the money does take 3-4 days to move, BUT this seller didn't transfer it out, they used in other ways (i.e. to pay others) so I was SOL. Oh, really, and can you please PROVE that to me, "nope not without a court order we can't". So I just have to believe them I guess huh?!
I have filed a complaint with The IFCC, The AZ Attorney General & the BBB. I have also posted on http://www.thesqueakywheel.com/ if you want to see my specific complaint go to
what's cool about this site is that EVERY TIME someone clicks on my Paypal link, THEY get an email sent to them ( I'll probably never get my money so I have to take my satisfaction where I can!
If anyone has ever had any luck getting monye when your are the VICTIM, please let me know! Thanks!
I am sorry to hear of your issues with the seller.
Our Buyer Complaint Process requires users to file the claim within 30 days but there is no guarantee we will be able to recover the funds from a fraudulent seller.
We can't release specifics on another account without a subpoena.
Yes, we have recovered money on the behalf of users. As an example, all users of the skunkker scam were reimbursed because we noticed the scam.
I am including the details on the process here:
What is the Buyer Complaint Process?
PayPal's Buyer Complaint Process helps protect PayPal members when a merchant does not deliver goods as promised. If you have been unable to resolve a dispute with a seller, you may file a Buyer Complaint Form (go to the Security Center link in the footer of any PayPal page) to initiate an investigation. PayPal will investigate your complaint and attempt to recover any funds you are owed. You will be entitled to the return of any funds PayPal is able to collect on your behalf. However, fund recovery is not guaranteed.
Additionally, buyers who qualify for eBay's insurance policy (currently limited to $200) may recover up to an additional $200 of protection from PayPal if their purchase was made from a verified PayPal seller.
Please review the Consumer Protections section of our Terms of Use to learn the specific terms and conditions of the Buyer Complaint Process.
Respectfully, I submit you're pursuing the wrong party in this matter...
Paypal was the conduit for the payment to this fraudulent seller in the same way that, if I understand your explanation correctly, your bank was. IIUC, the money, authorized by you, was to be retreived from your bank account by PP and sent to the seller. Is this correct?
If so, PP would have a culpability equal to your bank in this transaction in that they were acting as your agent during the transfer.
Your remedies against the seller, unless you're willing to travel to their home juristiction, are somewhat limited. It sounds as if you have notified the proper authorities but it sounds as if you have filed complaints against PP only....is the seller also included in these complaints? If this seller has established a pattern of fraud, each complaint to the Atty. General can place them one step closer to a jail cell.
Lessons....hmmm...what do you think?
My short list:
If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
Never buy anything from a solicitor, especially sight unseen.
Always use a credit card whenever possible; barring that, pay with a USPS money order sent via certified mail with return receipt. The Postal Inspector has pretty long arms when it comes to fraud.
Until payment services such as PP become a regulated entity as banks are today, avoid using them for transferring anything beyond that which you can afford to lose.
If a transaction smells bad, go straight to your bank first if that is the source of the funds. Most banks have aggressive anti-fraud departments and can be very effective in protecting your rights and assisting you.
How did I come up with this list? Experience....just like you're sharing here...
Good luck to you and I hope you nail the canine feces seller to the wall...
I am in agreement with most of what you said, EXCEPT that Paypal encourages you to leave your money with them on account, they in fact offer interest on it, and allow you to use an ATM card to withdraw it. They make money on the float, they ARE a bank.
The FTC is already looking in the PP services (Paypal especially) to see if they have crossed the line.
My issue with Paypal is nothing more than the fact that everyone right an left on this board says Paypal freezes sellers accounts when complaints are made, well it seems perhaps that's only when it suits them to do so, as they could have frozen this sellers account and I cold have gotten my money back. The part that's really galling is if you try and send this user money today, Paypal DOES NOT have their account closed!
In addition they use commmon every day terms like "canceled" and "reversed" and claim that I am wrong because they seem to have some special meaning to Paypal and that' my fault for not understanding it.
posted on October 6, 2001 07:27:54 AM new
Forget about paypal. You want to do something about this person. There is a law that everything sold over the net goes under the heading of "MAIL FRAUD" ! That's right folks. MAIL FRAUD. Doesn't matter if the item is sent or not. Doesn't matter if the item is sent through the post office or not. You buy something over the net and don't get it, it's mail fraud. Get all your facts together and file it with the post master. Let the goverment take care of it.
I bought a laptop over the net nce and instead of getting the laptop I received a ream of paper. It came through FEDEX. I filed with fedex of course; I filed through the auction site I was on; I filed through paypal and before I had to file with the post master I contacted this fraud and let them know what was going on. With in 24 hours I had my money back! All because I informed them of a law that says EVERYTHING sold over the net falls under the MAIL FRAUD ACT!!!! Check it out folks. All the times you hear os these people getting caught perpetrating fraud on people over the net --- It's the Post Master General that goes after them!!!
posted on October 8, 2001 10:18:02 AM new
Thanks for your advice, the problem is that transaction was done entirely over the web, I didn't send them any money to an anything but an email address and they gave me a fake name, I have no contact info for them.
ebay will not help me (they know who they are) nor will Paypal citing confidentiality issues. The only way they will give up the info is if they get a subpoena, and my local law enforcement are not interested since the amount of the loss is so small.
I don't think the Postmaster General could act either as I don't have enough info and they are not going to go through the trouble of getting subpoena to force ebay to give them the info (which is probably fake or stolen anyway)
I'll probably never get my money so I have to take my satisfaction where I can!