posted on September 2, 2001 12:18:36 PM new
I'm sure anyone that works has make a mistake on the job. One job was the maintenance of fire detection and prevention equipment. I once triggered the wrong thermal detector and released 104 bottles of Halon 1301 (180 lb per bottle) I believe it cost $3,000.00 per bottle to replace them considering the labor, costs, and EPA fines. I wasn't fired, I wasn't jailed, and I wasn't sued for that mistake, my employers accepted it was a human mistake.
Cops make mistakes. Lives are lost when that happens. It is an unavoidable hazard as long a humans are used to enforce laws and apprehend criminals.
I had a close friend for many years that was a sergeant on the Anchorage police force. He was short tempered, and could be difficult to deal with. One evening he told me how hard it was to have any compassion. He said he knew he wasn't seeing society as it was but a distorted and disgusting side of it. He spent 23 years dealing with drunks, drug addicts, prostitutes, thiefs, wife abusers, child abusers, etc.. He saw the worst of society on a daily bases. He was required to swim in sewage and be untarnished from it.
posted on September 2, 2001 12:57:47 PM new
Yes, Uaru. My dad used to say that maybe 2% of the population are the dregs of society, but as a cop, when you deal with that 2% of the population 99% of your working day, it's easy for your perception to become skewed that everybody is in that 2%. I think he had ambivalent feelings about his job and he may not have been a "good" cop by today's standards, I don't know. I know a lot has changed and is still changing and the job is much different for my husband than it was for my dad.
Ken, I am not closeminded about problems in Law Enforcement. Any "bureacracy" has problems, the larger the bureacracy, the larger the problems. About the only thing that hurts me more than reading the stereotypical cop bashing that is so much fun for some people is reading about the "bad" cops who bring shame and disgrace upon the entire profession. These are the ones that the news media focus on. They sell newspapers, not the ones who quietly go about their jobs and do what they do because they love their profession. And it's real hard not to resent ignorant statements and criticisms after recently attending a funeral for one killed by a drunk during a routine stop (CHP). But that is "my" reality. Sometimes I feel like telling "people" to take care of their own stinking problems. But then I would be accused of having a "bad attitude".
posted on September 2, 2001 01:30:40 PM new
Hello - back after being away a few hours.
I find it interesting that everyone seems to have missed the fact I commended our local police as A-mnumber-1 first - so I certainally don't think all police are corrupt.
However if you care to search for newspaper articles on the Detroit police you will find a wealth ( as bunnicula did ) of reports
That it is one bad thing after another. I don't think a week goes by that there is not a major negative story. They are so different that the FBI said they throw off the crime statistics for the whole nation. For example they arrest people they never intend to charge with a crime. They arrested a pregnant woman and held her for weeks. Her crime? Her husband was wanted and they could bot find him so they arrested her and held her hostage until he turned himself in. Yes this is the United States. They will go to the scene of a murder and arrest 18 or 20 people because they are witnesses and sweat them all for a lead.
What I am starting to think is that the way police departments are organized just does not work over a certain size.
It is also a reflection of the City Government. The city of Detroit is run by graft and bribs and theft - It might as well be Uganda or Mozambique culturally - strong men rule - so how would you expect a police department associated with them to be clean? The first requirement is not to interfer with city hall so they have to be dirty from the get go.
posted on September 2, 2001 01:38:24 PM new
I remember a cop who wore a cute little gold tie tack in the shape of a pig. While he was cuffing this young girl to take her off for disturbing the peace and at the request of her mother who said she was uncontrollable, the girl asked him why he wore a pig tie tack. He said it stood for Pride, Intergrity and Guts. The girl was not impressed. He put her in the back of the patrol car, wrote some things down for the mother to sign, and the girl sat in the back seat, stoney eyed and refusing to show her anger, disgust and fear. The creaking of his leather holter as he got back in the car, started up the engine and drove away from the girls home will always be remembered. He took the girl a few blocks away then casually asked her if she had a girlfriend who lived nearby, and the girl said yes, and told him where. He drove her there, took the cuffs off, and patted her on the shoulder saying "stay here. Let Mom calm down. Have a good day. I believe in you" and he drove off, with me standing there with a big round O on my face.
posted on September 2, 2001 01:39:50 PM new
Well Katy, I'd be the last person to say that you don't have a bad attitude-if I did that what would mine be called then? But of course it's the bad incidences and practices of police that draw attention. It should be, for that is where the problems that need addressing lie, and that's where police pose the greatest danger to those they serve.
You shouldn't rue the plight of the unrecognised goodguys too much. They have to accept that and know for themselves the good they do. It's always that way. Just as in the service if there's good to be noticed most times the wheels get the accolades while the troops just keep slogging along.
posted on September 2, 2001 02:21:10 PM newYou shouldn't rue the plight of the unrecognised goodguys too much. They have to accept that and know for themselves the good they do. It's always that way. Just as in the service if there's good to be noticed most times the wheels get the accolades while the troops just keep slogging along.
Yep, Ken. You're right. Still, I imagine that it wasn't exactly morale building for those vets returning from a year's tour in VN, to be greeted by signs calling them "murderers" and "baby killers". Sometimes ya just have to keep on keeping on.
Actually, Toke, I think we agreed on Jenna Bush. But that was a long time ago in chat board time...
posted on September 2, 2001 02:32:02 PM new
KatyD, I'm an FBI agent's daughter so I've heard a lot of tales from my dad's friends in the FBI and local PDs - some of these guys are loose cannons. One of our local police departments(Prince Georges)has a reputation for abuse that goes back many years. You just don't hear the same complaints about most of the other departments. There seem to be problems there that aren't being addressed.
posted on September 2, 2001 03:22:12 PM new
Oh Helen That isn't what KatyD said as I read it. Try to remember that to some people this discussion is more personal,hits close to home, and not just chat like it is for you.
posted on September 2, 2001 03:43:40 PM newTry to remember that to some people this discussion is more personal,hits close to home, and not just chat like it is for you.
posted on September 2, 2001 04:02:30 PM new
Happy Labor Day
That 'bumbling' incident is an old story ksr.
Our police have been through hell here in the recent past. Lessee, just the other day it was the anarchists, I'm sure those dumbsh*ts will have lawsuits all over them. Then before it was mardi gras, or Fat Tuesday here... kids killing kids downtown, and it was 'caught on video'..
the WTO, which didn't happen because people went nuts in the streets and the mayor couldn't make up his mind what to do, finally did, then he was blasted all to hell for his desicion. I don't know what it is with this town, brings out the worst in people.
posted on September 2, 2001 04:23:41 PM new
Oh for heaven's sake, Helen. I wasn't commenting on Prince Georges County at all. Let me clarify for you. I was agreeing with Krs comments if there's good to be noticed most times the wheels get the accolades while the troops just keep slogging along. and expounding upon that theme, the old sh*t rolls downhill maxim. Meaning, that mostly it's the "rank and file" who bear the brunt of being the scapegoat and face public wrath when things go wrong, while those who implement policies and direction at the top usually escape unscathed and smelling like a rose. In the particular allegory I referred to, I was simply pointing out that often there is no glory in doing the job one is asked to do, because there will always be those who will find fault and blame no matter how it is done. And it gets discouraging.
While I realize that being up most of the night has made me tired and perhaps not totally coherent in my posts, I honestly can't see any comparison I made to Prince Georges County officers. Quit trying to read so much into it, and understanding is sure to dawn.
posted on September 2, 2001 07:04:23 PM new
Yes I do feel for anyone who goes into a big police force like Detroit and wants to do right when you have people above them that are visably living way beyond their police salary.
A lot of Detroit cops end up leaving very early and going into suburban departments
because they can't take it in Detroit.
While you have all the problems INSIDE the department you are at the same time working in the very roughest territory in the state with
criminals who out gun you and a population that is very reluctant to testify against someone because they will be shot or their house burned down. There are thousands of abandoned houses in Detroit that are harbors for all sorts of criminal activities.
The city can even not keep the street lights on or the schools repaired and safe. So the citizens actually have fund raisers to buy bullet proof vests for the cops because the department can't afford them.
posted on September 2, 2001 11:30:32 PM newGRAVID
HOW many times have I read your thread responses to indicate that you have been abused by the PD in wherever the hell you live...an I the first ti doscover your secret "spam" life?
Keith
I assume full responsibility for my actions, except
the ones that are someone else's fault.
That isn't what KatyD said as I read it. Try to remember that to some people this discussion is more personal,hits close to home, and not just chat like it is for you.