hepburn
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posted on September 11, 2001 02:50:55 PM new
And yes, I think this is just the start of what will happen. I dont think the USA will sit on their hands this time. God help us all.
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jales4
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posted on September 11, 2001 03:02:32 PM new
Watching CNN now - Afganistan is being bombed - by whom, unknown.
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jales4
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posted on September 11, 2001 03:17:32 PM new
Who is the northern alliance?
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pineyhurst
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posted on September 11, 2001 03:23:46 PM new
There is a civil war in Afganistan. The Northern Alliance is a faction in Afganistan.
The NA may be doing the bombing, taking advantage of the timing of the attacks here.
[ edited by pineyhurst on Sep 11, 2001 03:24 PM ]
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jales4
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posted on September 11, 2001 03:27:19 PM new
Would the Northern Alliance be for or against Bin Laden and his group - or neutral?
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hjw
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posted on September 11, 2001 04:36:14 PM new
jales4
"Would the Northern Alliance be for or against Bin Laden and his group - or neutral?"
You are asking some very interesting questions. I'm afraid that I need a semester or two in international affairs so I don't have the answers but I am very interested in your thread.
I believe that Bin Laden has formed a specially trained force to attack the Northern alliance forces. I understand that he has unlimited funds at his disposal.
I don't agree with the "nuke 'em till they glow" mentality.
But, I've had a stressful day and I don't want to argue any more today. Just want you to know that your great posting style is appreciated. 
Helen
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toke
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posted on September 11, 2001 04:38:33 PM new
Thank the lord.
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hjw
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posted on September 11, 2001 04:46:20 PM new
and pass the ammunition...
Toke, let it be...please...
Helen
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toke
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posted on September 11, 2001 04:49:06 PM new
Let what be?
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plsmith
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posted on September 11, 2001 04:51:35 PM new
(((((((( Toke ))))))))
I mean that, btw, but nuking is not the answer. I have my rabid sister here right now advocating the removal of women and children from Afghanistan and then bombing the entire country. I remember a couple of years ago seeing CNN correspondent Christiane Amanpour donning a bhurka (I think that's what it's called -- appropriate female attire for the region, in any case) and going to interview Osama bin-Laden. I wondered at the time, "How is it that CNN can find this guy and we (U.S. government, CIA, even) can't?"
I'm all for removing him, but not an entire culture -- not an entire people...
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toke
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posted on September 11, 2001 04:56:52 PM new
plsmith...
Okay. How about just hjw?
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bunnicula
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posted on September 11, 2001 04:58:08 PM new
It is true that there are many many terrorist groups and that obliterating one will still leave all the rest.
BUT--if we strike hard at the country harboring the group that did this, strike fast and with no fooling around, we can send a message to the other groups that would make them think twice about ever trying such a thing again. The message that if you mess with the US, no mercy will be shown.
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plsmith
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posted on September 11, 2001 04:58:53 PM new
hahaha, you're after another hug, aren't ya?
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NearTheSea
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posted on September 11, 2001 04:59:04 PM new
Hey plsmith
Damn what a day, a horrifying day
We've been listening to the news, of course all day, and heard that CNN and other media interviewers were able to interview Osama Bin-Laden by agreeing to be blindfolded and taken to him, not knowing where they were.
And was reported or rather rumored that Bin-Laden was dead or seriously injured just the other day during the civil war that is going on over there, who knows, that could be a rumor.
[email protected]
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toke
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posted on September 11, 2001 05:02:23 PM new
plsmith...
Rofl...how could I desire anything less...?
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joice
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posted on September 11, 2001 05:02:31 PM new
toke,
That suggestion about HJW is over the line and I'm issuing you a warning.
Your posting privileges are in jeopardy. If you have questions about this moderation, please use the email address below.
Joice
[email protected]
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toke
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posted on September 11, 2001 05:05:13 PM new
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plsmith
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posted on September 11, 2001 05:06:38 PM new
bunnicula, you do not seem to understand how tied (hamstrung, even) we are to the rest of the world. This isn't the geography-class world you and I grew up in... this is the world of blurred borders complicated by international commerce. We can't blindly attack any section of the middle east unless we're willing to forego our need for their crude oil. We can't condemn China's human rights violations unless we're willing to lose their cheap labor.
Targeting one Arab nation is an attack upon them all... a sentiment being echoed by NATO nations in regard to us. Do you -- do any of us -- really want global war?
NearTheSea, hadn't heard that bin'Laden was wounded. Get that from Art Bell, did ya? 
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NearTheSea
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posted on September 11, 2001 05:11:25 PM new
Nope not Art Bell but sure it was a rumor.
No I do not think anyone wants global war. But something really has to be done. What that is, I haven't a clue anymore..... 
Gonna watch the Prez, they moved his speech up.
[email protected]
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snowyegret
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posted on September 11, 2001 05:14:29 PM new
plsmith, you may want to remove just him, but another will pop up in his place. The supporting structure has to be removed, and the supporting structure would presently be the Taliban, in Bn Laden's case.
"Men's minds are evil, and naturally inclined to covetousness. But if ye are kind to women and children, and fear to harm them, God is well acquainted with what ye do."
From the Fourth Sura of the Q'uran
God is well acquainted with what happened today.
poor spelling
[ edited by snowyegret on Sep 11, 2001 05:20 PM ]
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bunnicula
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posted on September 11, 2001 05:14:35 PM new
We're only hamstrung if we allow ourselves to be. We're only dependent on oil because we allow ourselves to be. I would say that the time has come to develop other power sources...
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toke
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posted on September 11, 2001 05:17:19 PM new
Yeah...15 minutes until the voice of the great one is heard in the land...
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pyth00n
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posted on September 11, 2001 05:30:57 PM new
A couple points I've seen during this horrible day about Osama bin-Laden: he's a multi-millionaire expatriate Saudi who led a guerrilla band fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan. He put himself in the middle of horrific combat situations and gained huge personal confidence and admiration of fellow fighters by being lucky enough to live through them. A fanatic madman vermin he is, but he's not a coward. He has some 25,000 admirers and followers in Afghanistan and they provide him cover as payback for his past combat efforts with them. He moves around at night perhaps three times a week and with the support of the population there would be very difficult to root out without huge "collateral civilian casualties."
Is there any doubt that people capable of today's, and earlier, actions will be capable of using nuclear devices should they, or their successors, manage to buy some from the remnants of the Russian military? I don't have any answers. I fear we are embarked on an nearly-unavoidable spiral towards seeing one or more US cities vanish like Hiroshima did.
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plsmith
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posted on September 11, 2001 05:33:34 PM new
bunnicula, what do you drive? Ready to trade it in for a bicycle?
I'd respectfully suggest that the hatred abroad in this world today is not something OUT THERE and far away... we're each of us capable of tremendous loathing (just skim the OAI boards) ... President Bush has said this is a time for prayer; I'd add that it's also a time for deep reflection. Hatred begins in the heart of every man and woman on the planet -- that includes you and me...
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bunnicula
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posted on September 11, 2001 05:46:40 PM new
plsmith: the technology exists and has for quite a while to provide automobiles with other fuel sources than oil. Suppressed and ignored, but still in existence. We are only dependent on oil because we allow it.
BTW, I do have bicycle--a Trek designed sepcifically for city use. How about you?
As for the President: in his message to the uniuon just now he stated that any country *harboring* the terrorists who did this will face the same punsihment...about the first thing he's ever said that I can agree with.
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plsmith
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posted on September 11, 2001 05:51:04 PM new
bunnicula, yes, we have the technology to derive electricity from wind, too, and could supply this nation's needs with it, yet we don't. Just as we refuse to develop conveyances that don't rely upon the internal combustion engine. Believe me, it is not my intention to make "wrong" anyone in this thread; I just think it's time we took a look at why we're so hated in so many parts of the world, and what we might do to change that.
Edited to add that I don't have a bicycle. I walk. Or I stay here online (sucking up electricity) with y'all...
[ edited by plsmith on Sep 11, 2001 06:02 PM ]
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NearTheSea
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posted on September 11, 2001 06:13:50 PM new
As he said the people that harbour these terrorist are just as guilty, this I think is true.
There is also the theory that a lot of these terrorist are 'sleeper agents' and have been here living like you or I, in the U.S. for quite awhile.
I think it is a time for prayer, unity and reflection, just as Bush and others have said.
[email protected]
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NearTheSea
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posted on September 11, 2001 06:16:17 PM new
I don't have a bicycle. I think I would walk if had to.
I feel like I should be doing something, but not sure what. I am not allowed to donate blood, so what else is there?
[email protected]
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bunnicula
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posted on September 11, 2001 06:28:32 PM new
plsmith: I just think it's time we took a look at why we're so hated in so many parts of the world, and what we might do to change that.
There are a variety of reasons. But *nothing* justifies what was done today. If another country hates us to such an extent they want to annihilate us, they should have the courage to declare war. We have been shilly-shallying around for years and it's time we stopped and sent a firm message to terrorists everywhere just what they can expect if they move against us. These guys have gotten bolder and bolder precisely because the rest of us are too nice to give them what they deserve.
Countries who harbor terrorists *should* get the same treatment as the terrorists themselves--they are abetting them by allowing them to thrive within their borders.
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plsmith
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posted on September 11, 2001 06:31:11 PM new
NearTheSea, maybe it's time to look at the GLOBAL nature of the world in which we now live, and not follow the partyline of reactionary measures blindly... Look, everyone, I'm an American myself, and am revulsed by what happened today, but I think simply striking out against the suspected culprits is not enough.... we've got to begin to learn how to live in this world peacefully -- not just as a mighty reactionary force when the sanctity of our own soil is threatened.
My only suggestion, NearTheSea, is that we commit to educating ourselves about the myriad circumstances that have led to this cataclysmic day. And then acting -- as free citizens with voices -- upon what we learn.
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