posted on September 14, 2001 12:11:37 PM new
If the grief can be lessened by visuals for some folks, perhaps we could be a little more tolerant at this juncture.
Spaz, Hep, each has to deal with their grief in their own way. I hope you both will accept my hope that you will both feel better
soon and know that I feel our pain.
posted on September 14, 2001 12:11:39 PM new
Because I find some things tacky does not mean I have no sympathies and it is unfair of you to say so. I also find it tacky to sell things on ebay that pertain to WTC and the aftermath, but some people may think its ok, since its a piece of history or other some such nonsense. And for you to presume that I lost nobody or knew of someone lost or dead is also unfair. Its my opinion and I stick with it, regardless of what you think.
posted on September 14, 2001 12:25:55 PM newEveryone's feelings are at a fragile state right now. I'd love to see more agreement than disagreement for awhile if there is anyway possible for that to happen. We all know how to step on one another's toes, lets try something difficult for a few days.
posted on September 14, 2001 01:03:06 PM new
No offense, Uaru, but the thing about people saying they want more agreement is what they really mean is that they want people to agree with them. No one should expect to get that. Some things, people are going to agree with other people about, other things they're not going to agree about. That's the way it goes.
And it should be that way. I'd like to hear a wide range of opinions, those that agree with my opinions, and those that don't. That's valuable.
There's nothing that I can see that's dangerous, unpatriotic, or self-defeating about people offering up different perspectives and thoughts. Could you ever have found a society more uniform and unified that WWII-era Japan?
Since that unity didn't lead to military success, I can't see how our success hinges on unity of thought and speech.
posted on September 14, 2001 01:11:09 PM new
I'm reminded of the scene in Monty Python's Life of Brian where Brian is addressing the crowd. He says "You are all individuals!". To which they reply in unison "Yes, we are all individuals!". Except for one guy who thinks about it a second and says "I'm not". It was Cleese's favorite bit in the film.
I must respectfully disagree with the concept that we play into the hands of the terrorists if we don't put forth a "united front". The responses chosen will not spring like Pallas Athene from the head of George W., but in fact will be arrived at after extensive consultation and even argument at the highest levels of government, including people of all political stripes, and from all paths to the corridors of power -- elected, appointed, and career (military and civilian). Were they to engage in public bickering, it would indeed be a sad and shameful situation, and play directly into the hands of the terrorists.
For citizens, on the other hand, the discussion of alternatives and questions about the methods by which the decisions are made and the persons making those decisions is not only appropriate but essential. Such discourse informs the actions of those in power.
The fact that this nation's institutions will endure, not despite disagreement but rather because of it -- and the exposition it inevitably brings with it -- is the one great fact which will frustrate the terrorists beyond anything else. As we are a nation of laws, not of men, we are also a nation founded on principles, not on buildings, nor on air strikes.
I support a strong and sustained response. But if questions concerning the persons responsible for formulating that response are deemed out of bounds, we might just as well start practicing our straight-armed salutes.
-gaffan- [email protected]
posted on September 14, 2001 03:06:17 PM new
I posted the link to the eagle, not because of the image itself, but because I saw that the image had brought comfort to at least 5 people on the eBay Outlook. If it brought comfort to only one individual here on the Round Table, I thought it was worth posting.
Taking away that comfort for no good reason that I can see, was an ugly thing to do.
posted on September 14, 2001 03:48:25 PM new
Im sorry Irene. No excuses for my action or words, as there is none. I still believe and feel what I said, but there is a time and place for everything, and this was not the time or place. In short, I should have kept my opinion to myself because my words took away what you were offering.
I sincerely apologize to everyone my thoughtless words offended or hurt.
posted on September 14, 2001 03:53:10 PM new
BTW my most recent post above wasn't pointed at the kicking the image, but commenting on stuff from earlier in the thread.
-gaffan- [email protected]
posted on September 14, 2001 04:02:00 PM new
The tackiest thing I have seen so far regarding this terrible tradgedy.....
Last night on the news a lady was talking to the newspeople about her missing family member, not a bad thing. HOWEVER, she was wearing a T-shirt that said "TERROR IN THE TOWERS" and the twin towers were on it with what looked like planes flying into them. Probably being hawked by the thousands just down the street.
posted on September 14, 2001 04:11:21 PM new
Mark090,
I saw that T-shirt too and it's a leftover from the bombing at the WTC in 1993. The plane happened to be flying over the WTC in the shirt I saw worn by a woman searching for her husband, a worker for CBS at the WTC.
posted on September 14, 2001 06:01:28 PM new
Those cowards had to have people in this country who harbored and assisted them.
Makes you wonder who those people could have been, and how they think...
(edited to clarify that this post had NOTHING to do with, and was NOT in reply to ANY post or poster in this thread)
.
[ edited by Pocono on Sep 14, 2001 06:55 PM ]
posted on September 14, 2001 06:04:37 PM new
Personally, I dislike it when people try to play on my emotions but I've known people who derive comfort from such things. We're not clones, we're individuals. Different people are comforted and reassured by different things. What's hokey to one may bring great comfort to another.
And that's the beauty and greatness of the US. We're all different yet we're all drawn together in one way or another.
Frankly, I'd be worried if we all suddenly started agreeing about everything...sort of a "Stepford Posters" thing(or like those little cartoon gophers).
Before y'all think I've been in the catnip again, don't worry. I still think some of you are wrong. Some of you are right, too.
posted on September 14, 2001 06:31:01 PM new
Spaz, I appreciate what you are saying. I really do. And I apologized because I didnt mean to hurt anyones feelings or take away from them comfort that MAY make them feel better. Yes I think its hokey and corny too, but not now..not here, and not at this time. There IS a time and place for everything. Since when do I bow down to anyone? I didnt do it to bury my nose in someones butt. I did it because it was the RIGHT thing to do, because no matter what my thoughts or opinions are, it isnt right to take away from someone else that may in this time and place, make them feel comforted.
Dont go byebye Spaz. I had a fit awhile back and you said you would miss me. Well, Im still here. And I dont want YOU going anywhere either.
spellin'
[ edited by hepburn on Sep 14, 2001 06:32 PM ]
posted on September 14, 2001 06:32:01 PM new
Spazmodeus,
which is it. You can't have it both ways.
"NBC News is reporting that during the final days of his administration President Clinton received information regarding the specific location of Osama Bin Laden. Reportedly a military strike upon the terrorist leader was hotly debated by the administration but ultimately decided against.
I find myself wondering who leaked this information to the news, and why. What good does this do the nation? How does this help us? Are we supposed to think If it wasn't for Clinton and the Democrats, this never would have happened? It sounds like somebody is trying to politicize this tragedy, and it's disgusting."
"Personally, all the patriotic propaganda isn't making me feel better at all. I'd take far more comfort from our country openly confronting the problem of poor security, assigning the blame for that whereever it belongs, our nation being restored to active status and the public being given concrete proof that steps have been taken so that this sort of travesty never happens again. The people who were supposed to protect us betrayed our trust. The policy makers let us down, and ordinary hard-working men, women and innocent children were made to answer for it."
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