stusi
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posted on September 15, 2001 08:55:37 PM new
forgive me if this was brought up on a previous thread: despite the rumor that the Pennsylvania plane was shot down, the government has issued a total denial. but what would/should we do if the same thing happens again? shoot down a hijacked passenger plane before it can be directed toward another domestic target?
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BufPuf
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posted on September 15, 2001 09:03:29 PM new
I did see at one of the many news websites that I checked out earlier today the authorities were in the process of making a final decision on shooting down the plane as it crashed.
I understand their reason that shooting down a plane of about 100 would save lives of untold amount. They/we didn't know where it was going and I think they may have been informed that the report from one or more passengers that there was a bomb on board.
If any of my relatives were in a plane that had to be shot down I would support it. If I was a passenger I would support it. I humbly say this, very, very humbly.
I will see if I can find that newsbit again.
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NearTheSea
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posted on September 15, 2001 09:12:21 PM new
That is a really truly hard thing to have to make a desicion on, but I believe I would have to support it, though tough to imagine.
It would have to be done unfortunatly.
[email protected]
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slavien
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posted on September 15, 2001 09:25:46 PM new
of course they must shoot it no matter how many are killed. it is a bomb.
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Microbes
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posted on September 15, 2001 09:26:47 PM new
That's something I've thought of several times since all this happened. I don't see any other choice, but how long would someone have to decide to do this, and who would have to authorize it? Do we give our Fighter pilots blanket orders to shoot down any airliner that goes off course?
I hope no one ever has to make this call.
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uaru
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posted on September 15, 2001 09:28:38 PM new
Fighters were scrambled, the time wasn't there. I'm sure it would have been better to down those planes than have them crash into the WTC but the chance of KAL 007 incidents would be a real possibility.
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MrsSantaClaus
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posted on September 15, 2001 09:29:19 PM new
The local news reported that the first plane was given permission to fly at 5000 ft to locate the wreckage to enable rescue vehicles to find them quicker.
The second plane was an unarmed military vehicle that was either 12 or 17 miles away.
They also said that retrieving human remains is a horrible task ... and asked for identifying information ... but most will need to be identified thru DNA. They were asking for hair brushes, etc.
This is all so very sad 
Becky
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bunnicula
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posted on September 15, 2001 09:29:43 PM new
Shoot it down.
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gravid
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posted on September 15, 2001 09:35:01 PM new
That brings up the question if there is anyway to force a plane down short of shooting it out of the sky. Perhaps they should have some remote controls like the destruct button for a rocket when they launch it. Say a remote to make it dump most of it's fuel.
They did report that there was a debris fiel for the Pennsylvania crash about 6 or 8 miles away from the final crash. The people in the area reported a sonic boom also. I would never expect them to tell the truth about something so emotionally hot. Politicians lie when they don't have to just to stay in practice.
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hopefulli
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posted on September 15, 2001 09:35:14 PM new
As difficult as it would be, I think this has to be the procedure. This cannot happen again. Maybe if potential hijackers knew that negotiations would not be an option, at least any hijackings that were not a suicide mission might stop.
I hope we never find out whether the plane in PA was shot down or not. The fact that the passeners may have averted more disaster seems to be giving their survivors some measure of comfort. Let them keep it.
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BufPuf
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posted on September 15, 2001 09:39:38 PM new
I can't find the news piece online that I read.
What I wrote earlier I said with humbleness in honor of those who gave their lives on Black Tuesday to save others and to their surviving families. We each need to make our own decisions as to what we would do in a situation such as that.
Being a military vet I understand the reasoning of the sacrifice to save others and the American way of life.
The decision to shoot down a plane full of innocent persons (men, women and children) would not be and is not an easy one to make and is probably why they were dragging their feet.
If I had to make the final decision or be part of the process I would do it if it is the best option or the last resort. When it is carried out, I would cry my heart out.
Decisions such as this is never easy to make and to live with, but I think it must be done at times.
I salute the passengers and their loved ones for helping to preserve our way of life.
just my humble 2cents worth, stusi
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BufPuf
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posted on September 15, 2001 09:48:10 PM new
hopefulli
I think even if we do find out that the plane was indeed shot down, the fact that they were willing and possibly acting upon their willingness is I think something to be honored.
Sure right now in my comfort zone I have stated yes shoot the plane my loved ones are on or if I am on it, but when the time comes will I have the same opinion?
Knowing myself I would say yes, but I have been wrong before.
just my humble 2cents pie
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krs
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posted on September 15, 2001 09:54:46 PM new
With the cellphone call info, shoot it. There's no choice. Without the calls, they'd have to take time to figure out what it was doing, then shoot it.
BTW, what time is it dark in Afghanistan?
http://portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/09/16/wusa16.xml
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stusi
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posted on September 16, 2001 09:31:11 AM new
there is an article in this morning's paper stating that National Guard and Air Force fighter planes were dispatched immediately after the first plane struck. they chased after the second WTC plane and the Pentagon plane but were too far away to intercept. there was no notice given in time to dispatch aircraft to intercept the Pennsylvania plane. it was said that they could not have done anything anyway without the President's command.
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sulyn1950
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posted on September 16, 2001 10:27:48 AM new
I was watching the news this AM and some Whitehouse spokesperson said that they had made the decision to down the "missing aircraft" once they realized that we were indeed under attack. The plane crashed before those orders became necessary to carry out.
They also made the decision to fly air patrol over DC with orders to down any aircraft deemed a potential danger and that may become permanent!
As to what I think they should do....From a ground view I am afraid I would say down it. If I or someone I knew was on the plane, I probably would not feel that way. I do not envy anyone having to make that decision!
[ edited by sulyn1950 on Sep 16, 2001 10:30 AM ]
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DeSquirrel
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posted on September 16, 2001 02:34:50 PM new
You don't have to speculate. Since Tuesday President Bush authorized the shooting down of any aircraft refusing to follow the commands of intercepting fighters. He did this after the second plane but before the 3rd plane crashed. There wasn't enough time to intercept the Pentagon plane. I live in NJ and you can hear the fighters. Cheney said that a Combat Air patrol has been set up and is being maintained.
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hepburn
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posted on September 16, 2001 02:39:17 PM new
Does anyone know if the recorder boxes have been listened to yet, concerning the downed plane in PA? The one from the pentagon was said to have been damaged too much. Im hoping the passengers on that flight get the kudos they deserve for taking care of it themselves before it hit its intended target or was shot down before they could do whatever it is they did.
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DeSquirrel
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posted on September 16, 2001 02:42:04 PM new
Bush & Cheney have both called the passengers "heroes" and you can assume they have better info than is being released. They also mentioned today that they are virtually certain that this plane was heading toward the Capitol building.
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MrsSantaClaus
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posted on September 17, 2001 05:55:32 PM new
Both black boxes from the PA plane have been recovered.
The decision to shoot down the plane was made and a plane sent out to shoot it down but the plane went down in PA before the other plane reached it.
God Bless the families of the heroes on this flight.
BECKY
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Microbes
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posted on September 17, 2001 06:37:37 PM new
I think even if we do find out that the plane was indeed shot down
I will say this. If one of our pilots did shoot down that plane, he probably cryed for days. That's something alot of people don't undertand about what it's like being a soldier, your soul is in more danger than your life.
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krs
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posted on September 18, 2001 12:25:16 AM new
yes.
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hjw
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posted on September 18, 2001 08:07:48 AM new
Microbes
"I will say this. If one of our pilots did shoot down that plane, he probably cryed for days. That's something alot of people don't undertand about what it's like being a soldier, your soul is in more danger than your life."
Although I know that my humble opinion doesn't count for much, I do have to say that your remark here in this thread is one of the most thoughtful posts that I have read.
Helen
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Linda_K
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posted on September 18, 2001 08:20:40 AM new
If there are no other choices, I'd agree with bringing it down.
The passengers on that plane were true heros. They put the welfare of their country before their own lives.
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thermionic
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posted on September 18, 2001 08:34:23 AM new
that decision should never have to be made if the cockpit were shielded with adequate doors. With the perps isolated in the cabin it is then rapidly depressurized.
The pilot's training never considered suicide martyrs as well and i'm sure it will be a new chapter in the manual from now on.
Flaws in the system allowed the hijackers to take it that far.
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ksterni
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posted on September 18, 2001 08:37:15 AM new
Hate to say this, but...
as mentioned before, there were 2 debris fields (which is consistent with being shot at)...
also heard there was a cell phone call prior to the crash stating smoke coming from the wing, which isn't consistent with a bomb exploding inside the plane.
also heard that the area the plane crashed in was like the last clear area before more highly populated areas (which is consistent with the shot down theory, the preferable place if you have to shoot it down)
also wasn't this the last plane tragedy (of the 4) and at the time a missing flight? couldn't it be detected on radar? by then the government armed forces were on alert.
Edited to add: I am aware the cell phone calls indicate an effort on the part of the passengers to overtake the hijackers, I just don't think it may have occurred in time, everything happened so fast.
It is much nicer to think that the brave people on the plane overtook the hijackers, and regardless everyone on that flight is a hero, as their lives were taken so no one else would perish.
We'll never know the truth, but it doesn't really matter much, it won't bring those people back.
If this would happen in the future, even if I were on the plane, I think I would understand why it would need to be shot down.
[ edited by ksterni on Sep 18, 2001 09:20 AM ]
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DeSquirrel
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posted on September 18, 2001 08:44:26 AM new
I'm so sick of conspiracy theories. Especially ones that involve hundreds or thousands of people remaining quiet in an age where NOTHING is kept quiet for long.
Another reason it wasn't shot down: some advisor would have released the information to show the President" strength & determination.
They discussed the doors on the news. They are purposely made "break away" in case there is a need to extricate the crew in an emergency. This is one of those things that made me go ??. They tell you flying is safer than driving a car, but planes are hijacked all the time. So they need a "breakaway" door???????
El Al has a double armored door system and the pilots have access to arms.
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Linda_K
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posted on September 18, 2001 08:58:02 AM new
I watched Fox News as a husband of one woman killed on that flight PA) shared what had happened up to a certain point. The wife was often a guest on Fox News programs.
His wife had called him and she was sharing that her plane had been hijacked by three terrorists. He shared with her about the other two plane crashes and she then was aware of what was happening to her plane. She shared with him that there were men (passengers) who were planning on over taking these same terrorists.
Everyone will believe what they wish, but for me because of this story that the husband shared, I will alway know the passengers tried to overcome these killers.
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toke
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posted on September 18, 2001 09:13:34 AM new
Hi Linda K...
I suspect you're talking about Barbara Olson, wife of the Solicitor General. If you are, she was actually on the flight that crashed into the Pentagon.
I watched the interview with her husband. I honestly can't imagine how he kept his composure. He must have nerves of steel...or he's still in shock. So incredibly sad.
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DeSquirrel
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posted on September 18, 2001 09:31:55 AM new
"as mentioned before, there were 2 debris fields (which is consistent with being shot at)"
Consistant with nothing unless you are a ballistics expert.
So the 3 or 4 cell phone calls about taking control of the plane mean little compared to elaborate conspiracy theories.......
Personally I think Bugs Bunny did it. There was a report they found some carrots in that field.
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krs
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posted on September 18, 2001 09:42:22 AM new
"Shared". right.
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