pyth00n
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posted on September 16, 2001 06:43:20 AM new
Their overwhelming unionization.
This morning one of the networks interviewed a welder/ironworker... guy had his welder's mask on top of his head, said he was from North Carolina, had been told his skills were needed, had slept on the sidewalk last night waiting to volunteer and contribute his labor. He pointed to bunches of torches sitting around unused, other welders standing around with him, and said they weren't going to be allowed to work.
Why not? The site clearing has already been contracted out to a few big construction companies. You can't work if they don't put you on their payroll. They wouldn't hire this guy from out of state because he "wasn't a member of the right union."
I've set up sales booths at gift shows in the past in NYC, Chicago, D.C. and can say they're all the same, ridiculous union domination. You can't touch your own merchandise and fixtures to get the stuff off the curb and into the exhibition booth, you have to pay some union worker twice what an operating room nurse makes to put boxes on a dolly and wheel it back and forth to your space. (In NYC's Coliseum they then stole a bunch of stuff overnight, too, but I digress...)
That these corrupt unions can't put their protectionism aside for a couple weeks up there to allow skilled volunteers to at least make a token contribution is shameful.
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Hjw
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posted on September 16, 2001 07:09:19 AM new
Letting loose a bunch of volunteer welders on a clearing site could be dangerous.
These unionized workers that you resent should be held in high esteem for the job that they are doing so well.
They are not in the business of keeping volunteers busy and happy. The Red Cross is in that business.
Helen
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MouseSlayer
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posted on September 16, 2001 07:19:45 AM new
If it were an untrained worker, I'd agree. But according to the initial post, he's a trained welder/ironworker. Why shouldn't he be allowed to voluteer if he's a trained skillsman??
PC4Gamers
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Hjw
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posted on September 16, 2001 07:29:08 AM new
This job may appear simple but in fact, it is requires a lot of coordination that the unionized company may not be able to accomodate...with a lot of volunteers wanting to work.
It is not a question of money or a corrupt union as the starter of this thread suggested.
Who has determined that this union is corrrupt?
Helen
ed to clarify.
[ edited by Hjw on Sep 16, 2001 07:31 AM ]
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sadie999
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posted on September 16, 2001 07:32:46 AM new
I remember how when I lived in FL, anti-union sentiment ran high (FL is a right to slave, er, work state). Then again, FL wages were so insulting to this northerner, that I stayed home for eight years and played housewife because it wasn't worth it to me to work. They pay you in sunshine.
While this is an extreme case, it's no reason to run down NY or unions. I'd like to see an example of the perfect city or the perfect local economy where nothing stupid ever gets done.
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jamesoblivion
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posted on September 16, 2001 07:35:36 AM new
I agree completely. Those pesky unions stand in the way of corporate exploitation. Damn them!
-----------------------
In any case, they've got more than enough volunteers and have been turning people away for two days. It's noble to volunteer, for sure, but it's also true that too many cooks spoil the broth. This has nothing to do with unions. There are enough people working there and more will not help but will impede. That's been made very clear by the mayor, police and fire commissioners. These guys mean well and I do applaud them. They can give blood if they'd like to help.
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sulyn1950
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posted on September 16, 2001 07:56:55 AM new
Anyone/anything that tells someone they must "pay" to be allowed to work can be perceived as "corrupt".
I am from the south, so I have a different view of unions. I know that they have done a great deal of good. Especially when they were first organized. Now, they seem to have evolved into entities that wield a lot of power. Not just over companies, but over individuals.
I have a friend that has been a member of the ironworks union for 20 years. He not only pays dues, he almost always has to pay some person inside the hall to get him on a jobsite ahead of someone else! He sees nothing wrong with that. I do.
[ edited by sulyn1950 on Sep 16, 2001 08:03 AM ]
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krs
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posted on September 16, 2001 08:00:07 AM new
James, are you aware that there is some $300 billion (think that's what it said) in gold and silver buried in that rubble? .03% of the entire world supply of gold is in there.
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Hjw
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posted on September 16, 2001 08:02:05 AM new
Sulyn
They wield power FOR individuals...the individual worker...Not OVER individuals.
Big business would love to rid the country of labor unions just so they could increase their profit by screwing you.
Helen
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jamesoblivion
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posted on September 16, 2001 08:02:17 AM new
Is that what you heard? I heard 13,000 tons of gold but not a dollar amount. That's... crazy.
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sulyn1950
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posted on September 16, 2001 08:09:43 AM new
Helen-I was editing when you were posting. There is a time I think that was true. I do not anymore. I know it's not the "union" that is necessarily corrupt, but some of the individuals who work within those unions. You can't have one (so it seems) without the other.
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Tex1
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posted on September 16, 2001 08:11:58 AM new
KRS,
.03% = 300 billion? I think you may want to check your figures. My calculator didn't have enough zeros.
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jamesoblivion
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posted on September 16, 2001 08:13:49 AM new
That's true. Some unions are incredibly corrupt, but of course the forces that create the public opinion that unions are bad things do so not because some unions are corrupt but because they'd like to do away with the only protection that workers have. Some unions need to be overhauled, that's all.
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Microbes
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posted on September 16, 2001 08:21:06 AM new
They are saying it's roughly 12 tons:
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010915/bs/attacks_gold_1.html
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Hjw
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posted on September 16, 2001 08:23:23 AM new
Sulyn
Corrupt individuals may be found in every organization in America...even for example, in churches and charitable organizations.
But that fact cannot lead to the conclusion that all organizations are corrupt.
Helen
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jamesoblivion
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posted on September 16, 2001 08:23:30 AM new
Ah. Thirteen thousand didn't really make sense.
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krs
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posted on September 16, 2001 08:29:04 AM new
I think it was 12 tons of silver, and more gold. Lots.
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Microbes
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posted on September 16, 2001 08:31:07 AM new
From the above link:
"Some 11.8 metric tons of gold worth an estimated $110 million and 30.2 million ounces of silver valued at $121 million are buried in the rubble below one of the collapsed buildings in the World Trade Center"
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krs
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posted on September 16, 2001 08:37:13 AM new
Tex1,
Call the newspapers and ask them to check figures, or buy yourself a real calculator. Those ones that float in the bathtub and look like duckies won't cut it.
Oh, by the way, how much gold is there in the world, exactly?
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Hjw
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posted on September 16, 2001 08:38:17 AM new
Now we have the suggestion that unionized labor wants the exclusive right to dig for gold?
How preposterous!!! 
Helen
[ edited by Hjw on Sep 16, 2001 08:39 AM ]
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Microbes
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posted on September 16, 2001 08:41:17 AM new
Have you seen the movie "Kelly's Hero's"?
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krs
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posted on September 16, 2001 08:41:37 AM new
Better than all of New York swooping down. It's in vaults.
But I thought that they were looking for people.
Right. Kelly's Heroes. LoL! Maybe that's why the national guard is called up.
[ edited by krs on Sep 16, 2001 08:42 AM ]
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Microbes
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posted on September 16, 2001 08:43:36 AM new
Worlds gold supply:
http://www.fgmr.com/gold.htm
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sulyn1950
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posted on September 16, 2001 08:46:57 AM new
I was once very pro-union, despite I am from the south, because I don't like anyone being taken advantage of. Unfortunately (from my personal observation) I have watched people who are 100% pro-union (as members) become of the mindset "it's not my job". They absolutely refuse to do anything that is not part of their "union duties" even if that means standing idle because someone from the teamsters has to go and have someone from the labors put a shovel in the back of a truck and then drive it to the person who needs it who can't reach in and get it out himself, but has to wait for someone from the labor to get it out for him!
Someone from the teamsters has to wait for someone from the electrical to come and detach the hoses/cables connecting the tractor to the trailer. Does't matter if it can be done by the driver in 15 minutes or less. He waits on the appropriate union to come and do it even it he waits 1+ hours.
Someone needs a copy of a blueprint, goes to get one and finds the person who is suppose to make copies of the blueprints is out of the office and not due back for an hour. All work has been stopped until the copy arrives. The other person in the office who has a different job, but knows how to copy blueprints can't do so. Why??? It's not their job and to do so can actually cost them their job!!!!!
This quite often destroys continuity on a jobsite and bogs things down to a crawl.
Then we wonder why it costs so much to get anything done!
The above examples I have seen with my own two eyes. It is so inefficient as to be almost comical if it wasn't so sad.....
Yes, there needs to be an overhaul, I don't see that happening anytime soon. It just seems to get worse.
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december3
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posted on September 16, 2001 08:48:15 AM new
If it were an untrained worker, I'd agree. But according to the initial post, he's a trained welder/ironworker. Why shouldn't he be allowed to voluteer if he's a trained skillsman??
I'm not saying these guys aren't for real, but they have had problems with people showing up claiming to be doctors and EMT's who knows what else. I can see why they are being cautious.
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krs
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posted on September 16, 2001 08:50:35 AM new
Thanks Microbe, but that doesn't jibe at all. Look at the claimed total, then at the charts and you'll lose about 25 tonnes. Then if 107 tonnes is the world total how can 12 tons be .03% of the total?
It's gotta' be an insurance scam. 
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Microbes
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posted on September 16, 2001 08:54:10 AM new
but that doesn't jibe at all. Look at the claimed total, then at the charts
The numbers look funny to me too....
Kelly's Heroes. LoL! Maybe that's why the national guard is called up.
We need to find a little humor in all this.
[ edited by Microbes on Sep 16, 2001 08:56 AM ]
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Hjw
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posted on September 16, 2001 08:54:36 AM new
If you are a builder, it would certainly be cheaper and faster to have slave labor.
The slaves might suffer but, what the hell.
The building might fall down because the slaves are unqualified but, what the hell.
Helen
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toke
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posted on September 16, 2001 08:58:08 AM new
What gets me is...11 metric TONS of gold is only worth $110 million? Can that be right?
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krs
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posted on September 16, 2001 09:01:09 AM new
It's what, 2175 pounds to a metric ton, divide by 16 for oz., and what's the price per ounce today. Probably skyrocketing. There's something screwy about the reports.
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