posted on September 16, 2001 09:27:19 AM new
Btw, I don't want to sound anti-union in a general sense. I have in fact stood arm-in-arm with local union workers seeking a collective bargaining agreement at the university I went to in the South singing "We Shall Overcome" and so forth. I'm decrying the policies of some of the overgrown bureaucracies of the big cities not to have some way to make an exception for a few weeks. Given: the construction company itself might be able to push for exceptions and not have done so, this might be an oversight based in poor communications strictly and be quickly changed as soon as union members learn of the policy, and despite equipment sitting around it could also be its use is dependent on OTHER logistics and specialists not available.
That wasn't what the guy being interviewed said they told him, though. They didn't say he wasn't sufficiently skilled, they didn't say there wasn't work for someone with his skills, they didn't say they wouldn't hire a non-union southerner. They said he was in the *wrong* union. So maybe the guy being interviewed was lying, I dunno. I just know what they put on the screen nowdays.
Media IS making it clear there's no use for unskilled volunteers wanting to shovel bricks or something. This guy sounded in a different category with it a problem not being addressed by any of the talking heads. Plus, it sounds like the sort of problem N'Yawkers have grown to consider acceptible, and I wish to suggest it NOT acceptible in present circumstances if I understood it correctly.
posted on September 16, 2001 09:29:21 AM newHelen-I have personally never know a builder who used slave labor or totally unqualified workers.
I also know several "union workers" who had no prior experience in the fields they worked in. They quite literally "bought" their way into a craft and were passed off as "skilled craftsperson" some even started off as "journeyman". Just because someone is in the union, does not necessarily make them a "skilled craftsperson"! That's part of the overhaul needed. They went to the union hall got connected with the right people, paid their dues and were put to work.
When our nuclear power plant was built, we had a union contractor do most of the work. It's knowing quite a few of those union workers that has made me change my idea about how unions work and what they really "accomplish". I saw a "journeyman millwright" bring a sleeping bag in (paid to get past the so-called "security" guards, because he had found a spot he could sleep undisturbed for at least 1/2 of his nightshift! He made $23.00 an hour to sleep! Got away with it for almost a year. He was laid off when someone actually "found" him sleeping, but being in good standing with his union and greasing the palm of the appropriate person, he was hired back in less than 1 week!!!!!
I have given random examples, but they happened every single day, time and time again and I could fill a book with incidents I was aware of personally. This abuse was widespread. The plant was suppose to take 5 years to build. It took almost 15! The overrun cost was staggering. Guess who gets to pay that cost?????
Anyone who automatically thinks that a union worker is a skilled craftsman and therefore the quality and safety of the work by union contractors will be superior to a non-union contractor may be drawing conclusions that are not necessarily correct.
posted on September 16, 2001 09:47:16 AM new
Sulyn
Incompetence abounds. I just wonder what percentage of every profession is really competant. And of course this includes laborers also. I share your frustration in finding competance! Although labor union affiliation does not guarantee competance it is the best bet that we have, in my opinion.
Right here, as you can see, we have a bunch of experienced guys who can't operate a calculator.
posted on September 16, 2001 09:54:02 AM new
My husband is the Labor Relations Manager for a large corporation that you would all recognize. He works for the company, not the union. The union members that make $20 working for this company will do anything to get out of working. They forge doctor's slips, fake injuries, and you name it. And just as an example of the typical union mentality, there is a guy who has been with the company for 30 years and when they held a banquet in his honor, he wore a t-shirt that said "Friends don't let friends work for *****" (insert name of the company). Then, when the company president refused to have his picture taken with this guy wearing the shirt, the guy screamed discrimination!
This is NOT the exception - this is the rule. Every day there are employees who are sent home because they come to work wearing t-shirts that say "**** sucks" or show a picture of the cartoon character Calvin pissing on one of the company's products. But by God the union protects these workers from being reprimanded!! Unions have outlived their usefullness, and they need to be done away with. They are useless and they protect all the deadbeats from having do put in an honest day's work at $20 an hour!
posted on September 16, 2001 09:55:31 AM new
Calculators? Bah! Who cares. The point is that there's a lot of gold and James is right close by........ummm, anyone heard from James? Don't give him a hard hat.
posted on September 16, 2001 09:59:14 AM new
sickening... people can be in there dying, because organized crime, er, I mean the construction "unions" won't risk someone else finding a trinkit that they can exploit and steal for themselves.
Biggest racket going.
You get to pay people 5 times what they are worth, for 10% of the work output.
posted on September 16, 2001 10:01:20 AM newHelen-
I also just want to add, I don't necessarily think unions are evil, but as James said, definitely in need of major overhaul.
I also wanted to point out that just because it's "union made" does not automatically mean it is "quality made". I think that is primarily because of the need of the aforementioned overhaul!
We "humans" do have a tendency to take a mile if given an inch and we will, seemingly anyway, get by with as little as we can.
Just as one might come to the conculsion we humans are a "lazy and worthless" lot, you see them come together like all those volunteers in NYC and DC!!! Be they union or not. It's sad they cannot work along side each other. That's I suppose my biggest complaint.
posted on September 16, 2001 10:18:15 AM newHelen: Oh, I'm sorry. That makes a huge difference! Clearly the union people have the correct mentality! That gives the union workers the right to wear shirts to work that say "MY COMPANY SUCKS" now give me $20 an hour, and oh by the way my leg hurts and I need to go home for three weeks and collect full pay, but during those three weeks I'll be working a construction job on the side.
posted on September 16, 2001 10:38:59 AM new
krs-
.03%? Bah! You should add a few zeros in front of that three.
And the price of gold is not skyrocketing
posted on September 16, 2001 11:04:00 AM newnow come on Muriel, we know under their white shirts and ties lies a management T shirt that say "The Union workers Suck!" tsk tsk, and to think those workers who were hired want to stay home an collect full pay and work on the side....Girl where is your respect!!
posted on September 16, 2001 11:30:29 AM new
Muriel, are you president of the company? I was just wondering how this came to be "Your problem" Some jerko wears a demeaning T Shirt to a dinner in his honor...I guess their are idiots in every walk of life, and to think they get paid too *after having soo much fun*
Raytheon, one of the largest Military Contractors in the US is union and when my company shipped an order via a commercial carrier and their UNION went on strike Raytheon couldn't get their much needed goods because their receivers are UNION. So, I had to rent a van, go to the carriers warehouse, drive through the UNION picket lines (at my own risk) to pick up the items needed for DEFENSE and bring them to Raytheon, where their UNION offloaded the NON UNION VAN....
As an aside the commercial carrier closed its doors forever, shut down by the UNION!!
posted on September 16, 2001 11:32:51 AM new
HJW DO NOT USE any part of my post to further your agenda....that was not the point I was making....READ with understanding!
posted on September 16, 2001 11:37:36 AM new
I've been in 2 unions neither was a pleasant experience. One was in a state that didn't have the right to work law and I had no choice, the other was on a job where non-union workers were intimidated and subject to a disproportionate level of 'accidents' (strangely from union workers.)
Unions are necessary at times, but I agree with a previous poster, many have outlived their usefulness. Some unions are little more than organized crime. I had a friend whose father worked as a longshoreman, it was amazing how much a non-skilled worker could earn if they were able to hold a knife to the throat of management.
posted on September 16, 2001 11:40:17 AM new
Anyway, we are off to place flags that have been purchased from the VFW to for a further show of respect for THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
now come on Muriel, we know under their white shirts and ties lies a management T shirt that say "The Union workers Suck!" tsk tsk, and to think those workers who were hired want to stay home an collect full pay and work on the side....Girl where is your respect!!