posted on September 17, 2001 01:39:19 PM new
Terri,
In answer to your comment, Robertson and Falwell are busily engaged in capitalizing on this tragic event by using the "tatic" that I mentioned before. Taking advantage of people under these difficult circumstances is disreputable and shameful behavior.
And, I think that the timing on posting this thread is inappropriate,
especially in view of your link directions. Remember, not everyone here is a Southern Baptist waiting for the rapture...whatever that is.
Why aren't you concerned about other people in the world now and not just about yourself and your chance with the rapture concept. For example,
why not say a prayer for the poor people in Afganistan. They had nothing to do with this tragedy and now they are waiting for yet another bomb to fall.
posted on September 17, 2001 01:56:36 PM new
Terri you seem to be so excited about the rapture. Maybe you're thinking you'll be one of the chosen? Think again sister, I doubt it.
posted on September 17, 2001 02:08:04 PM new
Oh reading this thread just scared the pants off me (which is not too hard to do since most of the time I type naked). I just loved to see you all go at it, it makes me laugh and laugh. Why, those old men, Robertson and Falwell, are just co-dependant Christians. If everybody is not on the same page well they feel threatened,just like those nasty terrorist. Well, as an artist if I created beautiful paintings that I gave freely to all my friends and they tore them to shreds and threw them in the garbage I would be sad and then I would be mad. So maybe if there is a God that created human beings and he looks down on the earth and sees people tearing up his baby humans in the womb and throwing them in the garbage, maybe he does get mad.
posted on September 17, 2001 05:32:30 PM new
Hepburn, I hope and I pray more than anything that everyone comes to God and I don't care how or when they get there.
My expression was to reflect that God isn't something one can take out of a box when one needs Him and then put Him back when the path is smooth. Faith is a life long commitment. I just think people have to understand the ENTIRE message that He gave and not JUST what is appealing at the moment. That's all that I wanted to stress. I don't think people should be led into faith ONLY by a onesided picture of comfort. That is the same deception as using onesided "scare tactics". It's painting a dishonest picture. God's message IS comfort but it is ALSO the truth of judgment. God is love but God is ALSO the righteous judge. Tomorrow (whenever things are a-ok again), God will STILL be comfort and He will still be Righteous Judge. God never changes.
I meant nothing personal to you at all. I wrote you earlier but you have not replied.
Sorry if you don't want to talk to me.
As to the timing of this thread, well, I should post it more often and not just when I think people may be interested enough to actually read it.
As to that nasty comment, NO I am certianly not "elect" but God made promises and God does not lie. God promised sinners forgivness and eternal life and I believe Him with all my heart.
posted on September 17, 2001 05:45:43 PM new
If one is ready for death, one is ready for the rapture. As for faith, that is something that is known only by the individual and his God. No one else can make that judgement nor should they try.
posted on September 17, 2001 06:31:30 PM new
All this rapture stuff is pretty scary! Especially since I know I am a sinner and I don't want to burn in hell! or worse,just die and cease to exsist. But I think terri is right when she says you can't just pull God out of a box when you need him. That is kind of two faced. I read revelation all the way through in church once, it was the only chapter that kept me awake. Take a lesson from ancient Rome- Barbarians at its borders help do it in. History always repeats itself, ain't nothing new under the son.
posted on September 17, 2001 09:30:03 PM new
JT said:
"My expression was to reflect that God isn't something one can take out of a box when one needs Him and then put Him back when the path is smooth. Faith is a life long commitment. I just think people have to understand the ENTIRE message that He gave and not JUST what is appealing at the moment. That's all that I wanted to stress. I don't think people should be led into faith ONLY by a onesided picture of comfort. "
Don't you think babies should be able to learn to walk, before putting skates on them and pushing them onto the ice?
posted on September 17, 2001 09:44:34 PM new
I was raised with the Bible as the foundation for my beliefs. It wasn't until I was an adult that I realized that not only has the Bible been rewritten numerous times - most often with the intention of invoking fear (obedience) from a group of citizenry but much to my surprise I discovered that most of what I had been raised to believe about God wasn't the truth. That's not to say that the entire Bible has been corrupted but I'm afraid it's been well documented that mankind has - as he always does - taken a gift from God and twisted it to fit his own need for power/control.
God is pure love. Pure love cast out fear - it most certainly doesn't invite, provoke or require fear. The power of God's love spirit to spirit is so overwelming that I could spend twenty years trying to find the words to describe it to you and I wouldn't come close. God is within you always - you do not need to seek him out - he is there.
He doesn't require that you label yourself with an identity such as "Christian" or "Catholic," etc. There is no need for you to beg him for his blessings... just thank him for them and expect them because he gives them freely just as he gives his unconditional love freely. The fact that we don't get everything we want and that we sometimes suffer true heartaches and hardships has much, much more to do with us and those we share this earth with then it does with him. He never changes - he is always pure love. We, on the other hand, are not.
I call the God energy God but the name is really not important. God is an energy being of pure love. He does not have or require a gender identity. We are all connected in spirit - to each other and to God.
When we make the transition from this realm to the next we are not sent before a God of judgment. The first realm that we enter is made up of what I would refer to as different levels of learning. Our spirit ascends to the level that we need. It is not a matter of punishment but a matter of growth or learning. When we enter that realm we are no longer blinded by the weight of earthly needs and our spirit is much more intuned with the God energy. We see an almost instant replay of our lives. This includes every thought and emotion we have ever felt as well as every thought and emotion we have ever caused another to feel. This is not a punishment but is our awakening. From this experience our spirit knows where it needs to be... that's it. There is no need for God's judgment. Our spiritual eyes are simply opened and we innately go where we need to to best further our journey toward fully embracing the God energy.
I used to say that I believe in God. But, to me the word "believe" implies there is a need for action on my part. The truth is that I know there is a God. No doubt.
Hepburn I wish I knew the magical words to make God's energy more known for you and others who may be struggling because it is truly comforting. I do know that it is an indisputable fact that we can best lift our own spirits by lifting the spirits of others.
posted on September 17, 2001 09:49:48 PM new
So I guess your God of Love will do us Americans no good because he just loves Osama! Ain't no need to pray to him cause he's just some mamby pamby love thang.
posted on September 17, 2001 10:13:53 PM new
outoftheblue - Man's main agenda in the changes he's made to the Bible has always been to invoke fear. Personally I still gain strength in spirit and feel the power of God through many of the verses in the Bible.
My understanding of God began nine years ago when I began to experience glimpses of the other realm. From that realm I was able to fully feel God's energy. That's why I know without a doubt that God does not require or provoke fear or require us to "earn" his love. We can choose to embrace fear - but fear never leads to God. I suppose it leads to what some would call hell - I call darkness.
posted on September 17, 2001 10:17:56 PM new
So you propose that all fear is bad? Do you lock your doors at night? do you lock your car? do you watch your kids?
posted on September 17, 2001 10:32:31 PM new
Our natural fear of the unknown is not the type of fear that I mean when I say our fear leads away from God - although that kind of fear might indicate a lack of faith - it doesn't draw us away from God in any real sense. Personally, I still have moments in my life when I'm quite convinced that I'm much better equipped to handle the problem then God is... although I do try to give him the little things to handle. I think we're all guilty of that and I'm no different.
But, when we immerse ourselves in emotions that are born from fear and are absent of love such as anger, greed, and jealousy then our spirit is in a sense abandoning the God energy.
posted on September 17, 2001 10:39:44 PM new
Terri, I emailed you. Sorry..didnt check mine, so didnt see yours until just awhile ago. I still luvs ya, but I have to find my own path...I have to learn to walk before I want to skate
Mybidd, interesting concept you have there. Much more soothing, but not what I truly believe. I think God can get really pissed if pushed enough, but still, he is loving, as you say. Im still toddling, and will be for some time I think.
spellin. Contrary to the belief that I am unfair, I do admit I have spelling errors often but that beats herding up a whole race of people considered untrustworthy.
[ edited by hepburn on Sep 17, 2001 10:43 PM ]
posted on September 17, 2001 10:42:08 PM new
so from the new age sermon I have learned the following. God is just a big bucket of impartial love that does not enforce consequences to bad behavior and evil immoral acts. Human beings must suffer on earth without retribution or intervention from the bucket (God) of absolute love. Fear (on all levels leads to the dark side) therefore I should never exersize caution or forthought for my personal safety or those around me. A God who does not give out punishments could not give out rewards. So this GOd would not support the evidence of evil or good only learning somthing that could not be learned because there is no morality. Therefore Love could not exsist. So the theory of God as absolute love with no consequence for the CHOICE of human EVIL has just been shot down in Equador
posted on September 17, 2001 10:57:47 PM new
Sorry Artdoggy You have the choice of re-reading and at least attempting to absorb and consider what I've said - or you can just disregard it. Either way works for me. It's not like you'll go to hell for believing God is a vengeful and manipulative creature...
Btw, I'm off for the evening - don't want you to think I'm ignoring you... late for a pool date.
posted on September 17, 2001 11:02:04 PM new
How can you trust Jesus if you believe that the entire world has different names for the same God? You can call a tree in your backyard God but that does not make it God. Egyptians worshiped cats...most Americans worship money.
[ edited by artdoggy on Sep 17, 2001 11:05 PM ]
posted on September 17, 2001 11:02:31 PM new
mybiddness, we are evidently using a different version of the Bible. Mine doesn't say what yours says at all.
I believe that the Bible is the "inspired word of God" and that the (actual) message has never changed, can never be changed. If anything, I think recent research has brought it much closer on a word-word basis to it's original form in study text and footnoting. I don't generally everyday, but I do study the original Greek-English New Testament. I do not read Greek though so I guess untimately I am accepting someone's word for word translation and language commentary.
So, it would probably be too overwhelming to mention that when John was told to record ONLY EXACTLY what he SAW in vision of the future that God gave him (Revelations), that he looked at God and God was clear and red with a green glow sitting in a chair? I don't think He's just a fuzzy feeling. I do think that whatever He is, He loves us so deeply that we can not begin to comprehend it and that He is in total control of the entire universe even down to the personal level.
Toddlers CAN learn to skate though skating may not be for all toddlers.
T
~clarification, added (actual)
[ edited by jt on Sep 17, 2001 11:06 PM ]
posted on September 17, 2001 11:23:08 PM new
I agree with some of your ideas, they have a basis in the truth but they are not the whole truth. I will chose not to take your word as gospel because it is not gospel. I believe if there is a struggle on this earth between good and evil, then there must also be a struggle in the spiritual realm between good and evil. The bible says we wrestle not against flesh and blood but spirits, powers and principalities in high places. I don't think God is quite so simplistic as just being an energy of unconditional love. I believe that is of course the main component of God, his core, his purpose. But I also believe there is evil in this world and in the spiritual world and it is God through his love that protects us from that evil. We as humans have a resposiblity to the love of God by trying to live what is a moral and just life. I do believe that abortion as matter of personal choice is in itself evil. I don't believe that people who have had abortions are evil I believe the act is evil and they have been led to make an evil choice because the society in which they live has not protected the sanctity of human life. I think a nation that supports the silent slaughter of innocent lives will not cause God to cease to love them but I do believe it weakens the moral fabric of the people and opens the door to evil. It is karma baby. You can disagree all you want but every human being that is sent to this earth has a purpose and for every baby that is aborted generations are wiped out, not just that one baby/fetus but its generations. There has to be a better way.
posted on September 17, 2001 11:42:02 PM new
Okay, I'm on a roll, so maybe Pat Robertson and Falwell are right afterall. Maybe we are a nation of self absorbed pleasure seeking money grubbing self rightous pukes. I know I am. So here we sit, here we live next door to a country where most of the population makes about 10.00 a week, kids are living in garbage dumps in south america, who among us really cares? Do you ever wake up with Mexico's impovershed millions on your minds? Here is this mighty God blessing American but we don't really seem to be blessing anybody else all that much do we? How about the rathole neighborhood down the street in our own back yards, do we every really try to help? What about all those poor starving people in afganistan? I never even thought are cared about it until the WTC was blown to bits. So we look at afganistan, land of poverty and lack, we can't find the enemy, its an enemy we can't bomb with our mighty military. Its the enemy of poverty disease and lack. It just stares back at us with sunken eyes and empty plates. This atmosphere breeds evil. So do we think we are just on a pleasure cruise with God? to he who much is given much is required.
[ edited by artdoggy on Sep 17, 2001 11:48 PM ]
posted on September 17, 2001 11:46:02 PM new
"I never even thought are cared about it until the WTC was blown to bits. So we look at afganistan, land of poverty"
So this would make their ideas right but their actions wrong. Much like Tim McVeigh.
T
Sorry, I didn't mean to switch topics suddenly. Just ignore.
[ edited by jt on Sep 17, 2001 11:48 PM ]
posted on September 17, 2001 11:55:16 PM new
No, you are not understanding what I am saying. The people of that country had nothing to do with the bombing of the WTC. It is the atmosphere of severe lack and poverty that gives way to the entrance of evil men. It is up to us, now that we have our eyes fixed on a country with nothing compared to us to learn why this has happened. We have a responsibility to our brethren in this world to feed and cloth them. Faith without works is dead.
posted on September 18, 2001 12:01:14 AM new
Terrorists hijack planes and use them as living bombs, thousands are dead, and we're suddenly facing Armageddon.
Where were the cries of Armageddon when the slaughter in Rwanda occurred? Way more people have died at the hands of their fellow man than a bunch of WTCs could supply. Oh wait. Those are probably "non-Christians" and not worthy of attention by God-fearing Americans.
Where were the cries of Armageddon when our embassies were bombed? Oh wait. That didn't happen in America and probably didn't garner more than a few sound bites on the news plus so they weren't important.
Where were the cries of Armageddon when the Bosnians killed the Croats who killed the Albanians who killed the Muslims who killed the Bosnians and on and on? Oh wait. That's a civil war. That doesn't count when one group of people kills another, right?
I'm beginning to suspect that the only reason that we're now officially expecting Armageddon at any moment is because it happened to Americans in America and not because there's any Biblical proof.
So go ahead, keep trotting out the verses from Revelations because we're in the end times.
Of course, it's irrelevant that we've been in the end times since Christ was crucified, but hey, that doesn't count since it didn't happen to Americans on American soil.
posted on September 18, 2001 12:07:52 AM new
Okay, heres the beef. It is mostly Christian organizations that go to foreign countries and try to provide relief efforts. There are numerous churches involved in collecting money to buy people out of slavery in the Sudan. There is another Christian organization who is sending millions of dollars of food around the globe. The Christian Childrens fund (who I am a member of) educates, clothes and feeds millions of children in many countries around the world. There is another Christian organization called Feed the Children that partners with American Muslims to feed children here in America and abroad. Never underestimate the power of a belief system to help or hurt.
