posted on October 18, 2001 11:59:16 AM newI couldn't say for certain what effect graphic photos of WTC remains would have on everyone. But I can say that truth is the path to follow.
Not only Americans need to see the carnage, but those around the world who think the attack was deserved need to see it also.
This is scary.
spazmodeus posted on October 17, 2001 04:24:51 PM
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>>In the world court of public opinion, America needs to be seen as "fighting the good fight", and not just in our own opinion. I'm sure that we're the "good" guys, and so are you. But if the rest of the world doesn't believe it, we are in deep doo-doo....<<
I agree. That's why I get a little more nervous when every night in a row for the past week I have seen expert after expert on CNN and other newschannels flatly state that we are losing the war of propaganda.
Afghanistan keeps beaming photos of maimed children and enraged mad-dog protesters in the streets to the world ... Meanwhile, here you can't even see a replay of the jets crashing into the World Trade Center on any channel. It's like all news services agreed never to show it again -- yet the footage of those planes slamming into the buildings is the purest and most powerful explanation we have to justify the actions we are now taking.
By removing those images from the world view, we have allowed other countries around the world to conveniently forget what was done to us. The reality of planes ramming the Trade Center has become an abstract concept. We need to refresh the world's memory -- and fast -- regarding the heinousness of this crime. Hell, I'd also show footage of all the corpses from the Trade Center and the Pentagon laid out for the world to see.
Show them the crime, and perhaps they will be more likely to understand the punishment.
But for some stupid reason probably having to do with "good taste" and "sensitivity," we're making it simple for the world to overlook why we're in this war. We're letting them forget who drew first blood, and failing to help them make the connection in their religion-addled minds that this is retribution, and that they wouldn't be suffering now if their beloved murderer/hero hadn't committed this atrocity.
Unless we do something soon, the opposition will just keep showing how horrible we are, while we take the high road and continue to lose support.
posted on October 18, 2001 12:07:42 PM new
re: Christiane Amanpour
At the very least, let's get the woman a makeover. She's looking like George Harrison these days. Add some color to that weatherbeaten face. And doesn't she own anything besides that khaki shirt? Fall's here and some jewel tones would go nicely with her dark hair (don't even get me started on the hairstyle!). Oh, and accessorize, Christiane, accessorize!
posted on October 18, 2001 12:12:04 PM new
It's time we looked into the other end of the telescope.
Civilian casualties are abhorrent -- yet inevitable. One of the strengths of Western Civilization is that we indeed pause to reflect on the loss of innocent life and our combatants do all in their power to avoid it. However, we tend to always be fighting a foe who has no such qualms.
Should we not focus instead on whether our actions, however tragic, have the outcome of saving a great many more lives than if we had done nothing. If we had not intervened with Hitler or Togo, we would have not be now burdened with the memories of Dresden and Hiroshima. But would not untold millions more been herded to gas chambers and hundreds of thousands perish in the "Rape of Shanghai"?
We seem to be bemoaning the fact that the U.S. "Humanitarian Index" has fallen below 98% while not pausing to consider that our opponents hovers in, at best, the single digits.
Soul searching questions about "Why do they hate us?" and "Is it our fault?" have pervaded our conciousness. Instead of trying to understand their actions through the eyes their culture, should not the debate be "Why cannot they rise to our standards of civility and decency?" Is it not time for the world to understand us and use our example as a beacon? Immigrants have come here to find the American Dream. Should they not too aspire to recreate the vision of America in their own homelands too?
We are the financial, military, and cultural leader of the planet. We have acheived that status due to our wisdom of choosing the right path to freedom and prosperity and defending our shores and the borders of all who have asked us to defend theirs.
We are not perfect. We make mistakes but they are sincere ones. The errors we cause to happen are made with the best of our intentions. We admit them. When the actions of America are judged one must also question -- "compared to what?"
posted on October 18, 2001 02:08:58 PM new
Humor, humour Bunni, lightening the load, taking a look at the absurd. Thank you spaz...I haven't seen her but if you say it is so...so then it must be...Call Oprah, get whatshername Stewart on the line something must be done or all credence will be lost.
Conservationist!!
posted on October 18, 2001 03:42:51 PM new
" "A few days after the attack, it was reported that Giuliani ordered 10,000 body bags... for around 6,000 victims. I doubt 10,000 would be enough."
*gasp!* And Donny finds yet ANOTHER conspiracy! Lol! "
A *gasp* deserves a *roll* I suppose.
Donny isn't finding yet ANOTHER conspiracy, KatyD. Recovery workers who need 10,000 body bags for 6,000 victims are finding parts. That's why the rescue/recovery guy shifted and mumbled and said "We're not supposed to say," and it was why the brightly asked question of the newsperson's was so stupid.
"Ou sont les Niegeden d'antan?" This is the secret Snowden spilled in the back of the plane. It's an ugly business.
posted on October 18, 2001 06:07:07 PM new
They don't use body bags for "body parts" anymore, Donny. Giuliani ordered 10,000 body bags because at the time, the estimate was for at least 10,000 casualties. At any given time 20,000 people worked or visited in the Twin Towers. Here's a link for you on the updated technology used to preserve partial remains (parts) for later DNA identification.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/uniontrib/wed/business/news_1b17body.html
KatyD
edited for an errant winkie where none was intended.
[ edited by KatyD on Oct 18, 2001 06:09 PM ]
posted on October 18, 2001 08:31:26 PM new
But, on the other hand, maybe KatyD is right, and I do see a conspiracy. It is a conspiracy, of a sort. A shared conspiracy.
What the rescue guy looked so uncomfortable about, and didn't want to say, is what the newsperson who asked him the question didn't want to know. If the newsperson had been thinking about it beforehand, she would never have asked the question. But she asked it, and she asked it so perkily, it was clear her thoughts had never gone to what sorts of things this rescuer would see.
We take a violent event. And instead of showing violent results... people shorn in half by flying glass, decapitated bodies, hands hanging from trees, as in Saabsister's father's experience, what we get is a steady stream of smiling faces in glossy photographs. Wedding pictures, fathers with kids, happy people with dogs.
People who are prepared to wage war should know what violent damage looks like. We're going to do it, we should know what it is we're going to do.
And not only do we not want to think about it, and we don't want to see it, we don't even want to call it what it is. Dead and injured people are no longer even people, they're "collateral damage." "Surgical strikes" makes it sound like it's beneficial. It's not. "Smart bombs" sounds like there's some reasoning ability in who gets hit and who doesn't. There isn't.
We make it sound so clean, we make it look so glossy, even when it's our own people.
posted on October 18, 2001 09:04:38 PM new
My feeling for the last couple weeks has been a version of that expressed in that classic cartoon of two buzzards sitting on a limb together, one of them saying,
Local Afghan employees of an international aid agency claimed that a total of 10 civilians had been killed as a result of the U.S. bombing campaign in Kabul.
The figure is much lower than the 70 civilian fatalities in Kabul as claimed by the Taliban. Across Afghanistan, the Taliban said "around 500" civilians have been killed or injured.
The aid workers said part of their job is to visit every report of civilian hits and check casualties and damage. They believe there are no more than the 10 deaths.
...
[M]ost civilians say they are not afraid of U.S. ground forces because they hope they will usher in a new government.
But the aid workers said they don't want United States to be an occupying force.
The aid workers said civilians they talked to were cheered by the news that the former king, Zahir Shah, might come back.
They said they are eager for Zahir Shah to declare his intentions and for a political vacuum to be avoided.
They worry that the Northern Alliance may come storming back into Kabul bringing with them looting and anarchy. The Northern Alliance was driven out of Kabul in 1996.
Barry
---
The opinions expressed above are for comparison purposes only. Your mileage may vary....
posted on October 19, 2001 08:27:32 PM new
For those of you who saw "behind the veil" it is no news and I am surprised nobody pointed outthat one before..
The same people that will:
venture out to a village, round up the population, sort out males and females and then proceed to execute all males in the village (
fully knowing that women are not supposed to work and by their will would slowly starve alongside their children)
will #*!@ that civilians are hurt in the bombings?
If they don't care killing their own - why should we?
posted on October 19, 2001 09:06:58 PM new
Because they say that it is all our fault in the first place, we brought it upon ourselves.
For them we are the bad guys.
See what I mean? Answering a "wrong" with a "wrong" does not work.
But referring to another thread on this board )what's your sign?) - I am libra!
Libra's main cause is justice. But I can do it both ways.
Killing innocents is not right. No matter how you justify it.
Thank you so much for helping me making my point..
posted on October 20, 2001 08:15:15 PM new
Afghanistan under the Taliban is rule by a radical militia. There are few more bloodthirsty forms of government. Every hour by which their rule is reduced will save cvilian Afghan lives.
posted on October 21, 2001 02:48:19 AM new
Keep in mind that CNN is more than just a US news network. There's CNN International which is seen in most countries around the world. That interview was probably seen by millions of people.
Conservationist!!