posted on October 19, 2001 09:45:12 PM new
Just got this email, thought it was the best I've seen in a long time.
THIS SAYS IT ALL!!!!!
Broken Arrow, Oklahoma School officials remove "God Bless America" signs from schools in fear that someone might be offended.
Channel 12 News in Long Island, New York, orders flags removed from the newsroom and red, white, and blue ribbons removed from the lapels of reporters.
Why? Management did not want to appear biased and felt that our nations flag might give the appearance that "they lean one way or another".
Berkeley, California bans U.S. Flags from being displayed on city fire trucks because they didn't want to offend anyone in the community.
In an "act of tolerance" the head of the public library at Florida Gulf Coast University ordered all "Proud to be an American" signs removed so as to not offend international students.
I, for one, am quite disturbed by these actions of so-called American citizens; and I am tired of this nation worrying about whether or not we are offending some individual or their culture.
Since the terrorist attacks on September 11, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Americans.
However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled in New York and Washington D.C. when the "politically correct" crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others.
I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to America.
In fact, our country's population is almost entirely comprised of descendants of immigrants; however, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some native Americans, need to understand.
First of all, it is not our responsibility to continually try
not to offend you in any way.
This idea of America being a multi-cultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity.
As Americans, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language, and our own lifestyle.
This culture, called the "American Way" has been
developed over centuries of struggles, trials, and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.
Our forefathers fought, bled, and died at places such as Bunker Hill, Antietam, San Juan, Iwo Jima, Normandy, Korea, Vietnam,
We speak English, not Spanish, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society - learn our language!
"In God We Trust" is our national motto. This is not some off-the-wall, Christian, Right Wing, political slogan - it is our national motto.
It is engraved in stone in the House of Representatives in our Capitol and it is printed on our currency.
We adopted this motto because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation; and this is clearly documented throughout our history.
If it is appropriate for our motto to be inscribed in the halls of our highest level of Government, then it is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools.
God is in our pledge, our National Anthem, nearly every patriotic song, and in our founding documents.
We honor His birth, death, and resurrection as holidays, and we turn to Him in prayer in times of crisis.
If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture and we are proud to have Him.
We are proud of our heritage and those who have so honorably defended our freedoms.
We celebrate Independence Day, Memorial Day, Veterans Day, and Flag Day.
We have parades, picnics, and barbecues where we proudly wave our flag.
As an American, I have the right to wave my flag, sing my national anthem, quote my national motto, and cite my pledge whenever and wherever I choose.
If the Stars and Stripes offend you, or you don't like Uncle Sam, then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet.
The American culture is our way of life, our heritage, and we are proud of it.
We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from.
We are Americans, like it or not, this is our country, our land, and our lifestyle.
Our First Amendment gives every citizen the right to express his opinion about our government, culture, or society, and we will allow you every opportunity to do so.
But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about our flag, our pledge, our national motto, or our way of life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great American freedom, the right to leave.
If you agree, pass this onto other Americans!!
It is time to take a stand!!
AAARRROOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
WOOF!WOOF!!GGGGRRRRRRR, leave my bone or I will slobber on you!
posted on October 19, 2001 10:34:00 PM new
Thank you ! I hope i get my post on before the wolves close in on you. I stand the same ground. (careful you might be called a flag waver god forbid). glad to see this post i was ready to bail.
posted on October 19, 2001 11:24:44 PM new
I do love it. In spite of narrow views of God. The flag is cool and I don't know why that offends anyone. God is a superstition that is devisive.
I won't leave this country to the likes of those who think being an American means blind slack-jawed following of the rules. You can't have it all to yourselves no matter how loudly you cry, "God and Country makes me a true American and everyone else can leave!"
posted on October 20, 2001 05:44:10 AM new"Our forefathers fought, bled, and died at places such as Bunker Hill, Antietam, San Juan, Iwo Jima, Normandy, Korea, Vietnam"
posted on October 20, 2001 07:12:06 AM new
LAPD police chief has refused to let officers wear lapel pins that read "Remember 9-11" over an American Flag. They wanted to wear them to remember their fallen brothers in NYC.
posted on October 20, 2001 08:40:09 AM new
I can understand not wanting to insult international guest and visiters exchange students for sure.
But To Not show Pride and unity at anytime or times of trouble is to show distain and indifference for the life Style you have come to enjoy.
you can be very certin they are not pulling down there flags in these other countrys so not to insult americans.
I also can't see where the mention of god is insulting to any as well all people trust and worship god in many different faiths and laungues god is worshipped diffrently and the name is pronounced different and worshipped different in each tougue but its all the same god even muslims..
Please take notice that last week dureing the time of prayer they didnt cancel do to the presents of internatioanl visitor so they wouldn't offend anyone ..
But I do agree if you want to show suport for god and country it is far better to do it with word from your mouth rather then some sign on the wall.
at least when you speak directly your feelings can be exsplained, when there is just a sign on the wall people draw conclution before its exspained..
As a matter of factly in the bible its say if the people do not spead the word of god them selfs the Rocks them selves there nation is built on will begin to shout it.
In fact many believe this has already started to happen since the time of radio and television many towers are built in the hills on the rock around the world
posted on October 20, 2001 03:19:15 PM new
ok I need help, in another thread ,it was posted that this thread was related to another that was removed . I can not find this post now and I am only going on information posted on a thread that is now "locked". if I sound like I am confused its because I am. I disassociated myself from the thread due to a comment that I am now not sure ever existed. I am starting to think I am in la la land coming here.
can someone shed some light on this? moderator , do you know what I am talking about? does anyone?
posted on October 20, 2001 03:22:00 PM new
Breinhold, I am as confused as you are....who is on first? No who is on second! What is on thrird!! Let's just sit down with our 2% milk and a bowl of cocoa puffs and we'll be able to solve this I am sure.
posted on October 20, 2001 03:56:20 PM new
pat zilvy and delitful...you have helped me. I really thought I was loosing my mind. the comment I never saw would have offended me but the thread about the flag does not.I know Nothing about the person who posted this thread. the misinformation from the other post also offends me as does the sense of being manipulated. I may have to take a break from this place.
To keep things in order and straight I will make a simple statement.
I love my country and all it represents. There is nothing to debate and nothing to defend making this statement.
This is my country and to feel any other way is wrong, unless you are not an American of course.
And with that in mind, to anyone who feels loving ones country is wrong or blind always remember you are living in a country that is so free it allows you to say awful things about it and not get hung.
God bless America I am out of this thread and avoiding stepping in any more traps on the roundtable.
Roundtable gross anatomy students feel free to start the autopsy of my statements. let the dissection begin! have fun!
p.s. thanks to pat zilvy and delitful for the help
posted on October 20, 2001 03:57:33 PM new
I did not make the comment, but I did reply to it and I believe that it was taken out of context.
I believe it was a question about a belief that the poster WONERED if OTHERS held, not a statement of belief of the poster. And the reply I gave was was "NO", that belief is NOT held to my knowledge.
posted on October 20, 2001 04:37:26 PM new
Terri - I agree. I too believe that statement was taken out of context. And anytime I read a ??? I don't (personally) take that as a statement, but rather one not being sure of a statement they've made.
More like they're questioning it.
On the American, Love it or Leave It. I've probably received at least 15 of that email from friends and family via email. I'd like my name added to the list that pretty much agrees with the posted email as a whole. Except, I'd probably say love it or change it (by voting). Some go so far as to call the writer of the email and those who agree, bigots? Well think what you want. I don't see myself as a bigot. I feel free to share my views/opinions and have no problem with anyone not agreeing. But I do feel I have the right to show my pride for my country and what it represents by being allowed to do the things listed in that email, without someone implying I'm going to offend someone. This is America.
On the language issue. I wished years ago that issue had been voted on. I feel English First is the way I'd like it to be. The way it's been up until the last few years. That doesn't mean I would want those who have a second, third language not be allowed to use that language. Just cannot fathom having everything that gets printed written in 100 different languages.
I think the frustration of many American's come from just those issues, and more, that are brought up in the list.
Our House of Reps, our Congress always starts meetings with a prayer. They pray to everyones God....not one specific one. You don't believe in any God? Well that's okay too. Vote your feelings. When you're in the majority, that will be changed. But to me it's our countries history...just like it's on our coins and in most all the patriotic songs.
Do those who spit on our flag, burn it walk on it have the right to do so? Sure, this is America. Do I like it? No, I never will. I question what those people are doing in the US. I do question why they don't live somewhere else if they so hate the symbols that represent our nations.
I feel great national pride. I wouldn't live anywhere else. I don't blindly support our government, but I believe in our system we've used to get us where we are as a nation. I believe it's the best.
So...don't like it? I agree, change it or leave but don't deny me my rights because I live in America and I might offend someone when I support my country anyway I wish to.
[ edited by Linda_K on Oct 20, 2001 04:52 PM ]
posted on October 20, 2001 09:04:06 PM new
Absolute ignorance regarding the history of this nation is the birthright of every native born American, as the author of the first post in this thread so amply demonstrates.
posted on October 20, 2001 09:12:44 PM newAbsolute ignorance regarding the history of this nation is the birthright of every native born American, as the author of the first post in this thread so amply demonstrates.
posted on October 20, 2001 09:31:48 PM new
Your comment has confused me as well, gaffan. What exactly do you mean???
As to this thread, I enjoy it: this is the [b]ONLY[b] country on earth with the type of freedom we enjoy. No matter what anyone may say, this country was founded on Christian principals, and as far as I am concerned, we need to get back to them (may the lynching upon me begin now ). But I also understand that this freedom we so enjoy has allowed us to stray so far from where we came from, that getting back will be difficult, but not impossible.
In our country, we have more rights, freedoms, liberties and oppertunities then any other place on earth, and I thank God for that. There are many things done here that I do not agree with, but I understand what I must do to change it. For myself, it is pray and vote: for others, it may be whine and commit crime. I always like my way better.
Rick
In the begining, God created the heavens and the earth.
posted on October 20, 2001 11:21:54 PM new
Since when am I a bigot???
This email means more to me then any opinion of a liberal! I have lost my father, 2 brothers and a sister in the defence of my nation. They gave themselves for something they believe in! Call me a bigot because I want to see America become America again, what HORSES**T!!!.
Where is the moderation in the now locked thread? I voice an opinion, an EMAIL for crying out loud, and someone takes a hissy fit offence! Go take a Motrin, lady.
Linda, maybe it should have been, "Love it or Change it", but I just titled it after the email I received.
Twinsoft, what minorities? Isn't that what America is becomming, a land of the "minorities" now? WE ARE A COUNTRY-ONE NATION UNDER GOD!
We need to relearn, as a whole nation, what has made us the greatest REPUBLIC ever on earth. We have to get back to our roots-and no, I do not mean the slavery and bigotry, but education and unification of our country as a whole.
I need to go to work now, but when I am able, I will post some hard facts that we, as a country, need to face.
WOOF!WOOF!!GGGGRRRRRRR, leave my bone or I will slobber on you!
posted on October 21, 2001 12:15:45 AM new
"This email means more to me then any opinion of a liberal!"
Purely out of observation, I have to say one thing for liberals. They are less likely to suffer from group intelligence. In other words, they are capable of independent thought.
[ edited by outoftheblue on Oct 21, 2001 01:11 AM ]
posted on October 21, 2001 01:05:17 AM new
"This country was founded on Christian principles" and the founding fathers were christian men.......
Really. Then I suppose that these poor fellows are not only blasphemers but unpatriotic as well:
John Adams
"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved--the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!"--John Adams in a letter to Thomas Jefferson
"But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legaends, hae been blended with both Jewish and Chiistian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed.--John Adams in a letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, Dec. 27, 1816, _2000_Years_of_Disbelief_,
John A. Haught
"The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions,Oaths, Doctrines, and whole carloads of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity." --John Adams
Benjamin Franklin
"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches." --Benjamin Franklin, _Poor_Richard_, 1758
"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."--Benjamin Franklin, _Poor_Richard_, 1758
"I cannot conceive otherwise than that He, the Infinite Father, expects or requires no worship or praise from us, but that He is even infinitely above it." -- Benjamin Franklin,_Articles_Of_Belief_and_Acts_of_Religion_, Nov.20, 1728
"I wish it (Christianity) were more productive of good works ... I mean real good works ... not holy day keeping,sermon-hearing ... or making long prayers, filled with flatteries and compliments despised by wise men, and much less capable of pleasing the Deity." -- Benjamin Franklin ,
_Works_ Vol.VII, p.75
"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects of Christianity, we shall find few that have not in turns been persecutors and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in Pagans, but practiced it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England blamed persecution on the Roman church, but preactied i on the Puritans. They found it wrong in Bishops, but fell into the practice both here (England) and in New England"--Benjamin Franklin, _Poor_Richard_,1758
"When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obliged to call for help of the civil power, 'tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one." -- Benjamin Franklin,
_2000_Years_of_Disbelief_ by James A. Haught
"Religion I found to be without any tendency to inspire, promote, or confirm morality, serves principally to divide us and make us unfriendly to one another."--Benjamin Franklin
Thomas Jefferson
[b]"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are serviley crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion Question with boldness even the existence of a God, because, if there be one, he must more approve of
the homage of reason than that of blind faith."[/b] -- Thomas Jefferson
"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State."--Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Association on Jan.1, 1802, _The_Writings_of_Thomas_Jefferson_Memorial_Edition_, edited by Lipscomb and Bergh, 1903-04, 16:281
"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg"
--ThomasJefferson,otes_on_Virginia_,_Jefferson_the_President:_First_Term_1801-1805_, Dumas Malon, Boston: Little Brown and
Company, 1970, p. 191
"...no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship ministry or shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief, but all men shall be free to profess and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no
wise.. affect their civil capacities."--Thomas Jefferson,_Statute_for_Religious_Freedom_, 1779, _The_Papers_of_Thomas_Jefferson_, edited
by Julron P. Boyd, 1950, 2:546
"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and
tyrannical."--Thomas Jefferson, _Statute_for_Religious_Freedom_, 1779, _The_Papers_of_Thomas_Jefferson_, edited by Julron P. Boyd,
1950, 2:545
"...our civil rights have no dependance on our religious opnions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry"--Thomas Jefferson,
_Statute_for_Religious_Freedom_, 1779, _The_Papers_of_Thomas_Jefferson_, edited by Julron P. Boyd, 1950, 2:545
"I consider the government of the United States as interdicted by the Constitution from intermeddling with religious institutions, their doctrines,discipline, or exercises."--Thomas Jefferson in a letter to Samuel Miller, 1808
"I am for freedom of religion and against all maneuvers to bring about a legal ascendancy of one sect over another."--Thomas Jefferson to Elbridge Gerry, 1799,_The_Writings_of_Thomas_Jefferson_Memorial_Edition_, edited by Lipscomb and Bergh, 1903-04, 10:78
"I know it will give great offense to the clergy, but the advocate of religious freedom is to expect neither peace no forgiveness from them."--Thomas Jefferson to Levi Lincoln, 1802,_The_Writings_of_Thomas_Jefferson_Memorial_Edition_, edited by Lipscomb and Bergh,
10:305
"No religious reading, instruction or exercise, shall be prescribed or practiced [in the elementary schools] inconsistent with the tenets of any religious sect or denomination."--Thomas Jefferson, Elementary school Act, 1817, _The_Writings_of_Thomas_Jefferson_Memorial_Edition_,
edited by Lipscomb and Bergh, 10:305
"(When) the (Virginia) bill for establishing religious freedom, the principles of which had, to a certain degree, been enacted before, I had drawn in all the latitude of reason & right. It still met with opposition; but, with some mutilations in the preamble, it was finally passed; and a singular proposition proved that it's protections of opinion was meant to be universal. Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a
departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would
read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that
they meant to comprehend, within the mantel of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohametan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination."--Thomas Jefferson, from his autobiography, 1821,_The_Writings_of_Thomas_Jefferson_Memorial_Edition_, edited
by Lipscomb and Bergh, 1:67
"Question with boldness even the existence of God; because if there be one, He must approve the homage of Reason rather than that of
blindfolded Fear."-- Thomas Jefferson in a letter to Peter Carr, Aug. 10, 1787, _2000_Years_of_Disbelief_ by James A. Haught
"Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. ...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and imposters led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus." --Thomas
Jefferson, _Six_Historic_Americans_ by John E. Remsberg
"I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition [Christianity] one redeeming feature. They are all alike, founded on fables and mythology."--Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Short,
_Six_Historic_Americans_ by John E. Remsberg
"Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned, yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity [of opinion]. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites."--Thomas Jefferson, _Notes_on_the_State_of_Virginia_(1781-85), _Oxford_Dictionary_of_Quotations_
"The proscribing any citizen as unworthy the public confidence by laying upon him an incapacity of being called to offices of trust and emolument unless he profess or renounce this or that religious opinion is depriving him injuriously of those priviledges and advantages to which,in common with his fellow citizens, he has a natual right."--Thomas Jefferson, _Statute_for_Religious_Freedom_, 1779,
_The_Papers_of_Thomas_Jefferson_, edited by Julron P. Boyd, 1950, 2:546
"The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind and adulterated by artificial constructions into a contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves...these clergy, in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ." -- Thomas Jefferson
"I contemplate with soveriegn reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof', thus building a wall of separation between church and State."--Thomas Jefferson, letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT. _The_Complete_Jefferson_ by Saul K. Padover, pp 518-519
"History I believe furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of
ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose."--Thomas Jefferson to Baron von Humboldt in 1813, _The_Writings_of_Thomas_Jefferson_Memorial_Edition_, edited by Lipscomb and Bergh, 14:21
"All persons shall have full and free liberty of religious opinion; nor shall any be compelled to frequent or maintain any religious institution."--Thomas Jefferson, 1776
James Madison
"Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other religions, may establish with the same ease
any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other sects?" -- James Madison, _A_Memorial_ and_Remonstrance, addressed to the
General Assembly of the Commonwealth of VA, 1795
"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places,
pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution." -- James
Madison,_A_Memorial_ and_Remonstrance, _2000_Years_of_Disbelief_ by James A. Haught
"Ecclesiastical establishments tend to great ignorance and all of which facilitates the execution of mischievous projects. Religious bondage
shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise, every expanded project."--James Madison,
_2000_Years_of_Disbelief_ by James A. Haught
"And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in showing that religion and Government will both
exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together."--James Madison in a letter to Edward Livingston in 1822
"It may not be easy, in every possible case, to trace the line of separation between the rights of religion and the Civil authority with such
distinctness as to avoid collisions and doubts on unessential points. The tendency to unsurpastion on one side or the other, or to a corrupting
coalition or alliance between them, will best be guarded against by an entire abstinence of the Government from interference in any way
whatsoever, beyond the necessity of preserving public order, and protecting each sect against trespasses on its legal rights by others."--James
Madison, "James Madison on Religious Liberty", edited by Robert S. Alley, ISBN pp 237-238
"The Civil Government, though bereft of everything like an associated hierarchy, possesses the requisite stability and performs its functions
with complete success, whilst the number, the industry, and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people have been manifestly
increased by the TOTAL SEPARATION OF THE CHURCH FROM THE STATE."--James Madison
Thomas Paine
"I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name to that book (the Bible)." -- Thomas Paine
"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and tortuous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness with
which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we call it the word of a demon than the word of God. It is a history of
wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize [hu]mankind." -- Thomas Paine, _The_Age_of_Reason_
"Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst."--Thomas Paine
"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the
Protestant Church, not by any Church that I know of. My own mind is my own Church."--Thomas Paine,
xcerpts_from_The_Age_of_Reason:_Selected_Writings_of_Thomas_ Paine_,
"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and
enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."--Thomas Paine, _The_Age_of_Reason
"The adulterous connection between church and state."--Thomas Paine, from _The_Age_of_Reason_
"Persecution is not an original feature in any religion; but it is always the strongly marked feature of all law-religions, or religions established by
law."--Thomas Paine, _The_Rights_of_Man_, 1791, ed P.S. Foner, 1945
"Here it is that the religion of Deism is superior to the Christian Religion. It is free from all those invented and torturing articles that shock our
reason or injure our humanity, and with which the Christian religion abounds. Its creed is pure, and sublimely simple. It believes in God, and
there it rests."--Thomas Paine, _Of_The_Religion_of_Deism_Compared_With_the_Christian_Religion_
"As priestcraft was always the enemy of knowledge, because priestcraft supports itself by keeping people in delusion and ignorance, it was
consistent with its policy to make the
acquisition of knowledge a real sin."--Thomas Paine, _Of_The_Religion_of_Deism_Compared_With_the_Christian_Religion_
"The age of ignorance commenced with the Christian system."--Thomas Paine, _2000_Years_of_Disbelief_, James A. Haught
George Washington
"The United States of America should have a foundation free from the influence of clergy."--George Washington,_2000_Years_of_Disbelief_, James A. Haught
misc.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."--First Amendment to the U.S.A. Constitution
"One of the embarrassing problems for the early nineteenth-century champions of the Christian faith was that not one of the first six Presidents of the United States was an orthodox Christian"--The Encyclopedia Brittanica, 1968, p. 420
posted on October 21, 2001 01:12:36 AM new
I know I've mentioned this before but the Pilgrims didn't come to this country for freedom to worship as they pleased. They were free to do that in the Netherlands, their residency after England(The Dutch were laidback about religion even then).
So why did the Pilgrims leave the Netherlands when they had what they wanted?
Ah, but they didn't. They wanted everyone to worship as they did. The pesky Dutch insisted on having the freedom to believe the way they chose and the Pilgrims didn't like that so they left for the New World and the opportunity to force people to believe the way they did.
posted on October 21, 2001 01:26:17 AM new
"The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind and adulterated by artificial constructions into a contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves...these clergy, in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ." -- Thomas Jefferson
And that's the truth!
[ edited by outoftheblue on Oct 21, 2001 01:37 AM ]
posted on October 21, 2001 08:28:24 AM new
Hepburn, I trust that Ken's post above has hepled to clarify why it's obvious to even the most casual reader that the author of the screed atop this thread hasn't got clue #1 about the history of this country. There is such a high bullhockey-to-fact ratio that one can throw a dart at it and be certain to hit some gem of irrationality, ignorance, or both.
Just for one:
We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change,
First of all, who's this "We" guy? American culture is derivative of the cultures of those who migrated here. It's them dang ferriners with their funny soundin' talkin' and their strange ways who have defined American culture.
I'm sure there are those who consider me unpatriotic for taking issue with this xenophobic, narrow-minded bigot's scribblings. I find it difficult to find anything patriotic in what _he_ says -- he seems to love this country, but despise an absolute majority of the people who live in it.
BTW, the Broken Arrow school board statement is apparently false, and the Berkeley fire truck statement does not present the situation in its entirety. Click here. Not only are the author's assertions largely and laughably unsupportable, he apparently made up his "facts".
WOOF!WOOF!!GGGGRRRRRRR, leave my bone or I will slobber on you!
