According to what I read on that link you provided, symptoms usually occur within 7 days. Every day that goes by without a new confirmed case is encouraging. I really doubt that this threat is as dire as the media makes it out to be. I believe it's called sensationalism.
[ edited by outoftheblue on Nov 4, 2001 09:43 PM ]
posted on November 4, 2001 10:09:36 PM new
I loved that linked article, for these lines:
"But some residents, like Stephanie Johnson, are taking extra precautions.
“We can’t exempt ourselves and think we’re immune,” she said. “I don’t get the mail out of my box anymore. My husband does it. I want to have at least one place where I feel safe, and that’s my home.” "
This is a woman after my own heart.
So, outoftheblue, you're bordering on hysterical non-sensationalism here. How many cases would be enough before it starts getting dire?
The thing about anthrax is, you can never stop worrying about it. I'd read an article in our local newspaper, I think, about the last death from inhalation anthrax in this country before all this. It was in a guy who worked across the street from a goat-hair processing mill that had been closed because of anthrax contamination for 6 or 8 years.
But, on the bright side, the last anthrax news I heard was that Tom Brokaw sent a video to Rudy Giuliani that had anthrax on it. If these media and political guys just keep on circulating it amongst themselves, the rest of us can rest easy.
posted on November 4, 2001 10:34:33 PM new
Of course the Washington Post article omitted the names of the FBI "sources" who are feel it is "domestic" in origin. As for Iraq's anthrax producing and weaponizing capabilites,
Iraq has possessed large supplies of anthrax, processed into a form usable as a weapon of biological warfare, studies of Saddam Hussein's military build-up have found.http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,574225,00.html
interesting if brief article. And..
http://www.isis-online.org/publications/iraq/leitenberg.html
a synopsis of UNSCOM'S eight years of study on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction that was submitted to the United Nations Security Council. And...
[i]IRAQ HAS AN ADVANCED BIOLOGICAL WARFARE CAPABILITY AND WE
BELIEVE IT HAS DEVELOPED A DISSEMINATION CAPABILITY FOR ANTHRAX SPORES AND
BOTULINUM TOXIN, AND MAY HAVE OTHER BW AGENTS WHICH POSE A SIGNIFICANT
THREAT TO COALITION FORCES.[/i]http://www.fas.org/irp/gulf/cia/960702/73868_01.htm
from an old DOD CIA document generated during the Gulf War and declassified several years later.
Interesting reading out there. I highly doubt Saddam Hussein has been sitting around with his thumb in his ear all these years. Richard Butler doesn't think so either.
KatyD
(edit for ubb problems AGAIN!)
[ edited by KatyD on Nov 4, 2001 10:37 PM ]
I was talking about the threat to the average non-postal worker that doesn't work in a targeted office. How many cases has there been? 1 that I know of.
The threat from cross contamination is practically nil. If I'm wrong show me the proof...
[ edited by outoftheblue on Nov 4, 2001 11:18 PM ]
posted on November 4, 2001 11:37:29 PM new
I'm not sure what you mean by cross-contamination, outoftheblue, but the guy who died from working across the street from the goat hair mill, years after it was closed, back whenever that was, was pretty indirect.
And how about that lady in NYC? Where the heck did that anthrax come from? And isn't there a lady in NJ with cutaneous anthrax, where traces of antrhax were found in her mailbox, but nothing about a letter?
Anyway, about the NYC lady who died, and didn't work in a postal facility or in a media place... The known cases of anthrax, the highest I've heard, are 20 (17 confirmed by the CDC, and 3 others that are confirmed by the NY (or NJ?) Dept. of Health but not yet confirmed by the CDC) So 1 out of 20 cases is non-postal, non-media. That makes 5% of the occurences "rogue" (and a bit higher than 5% if you count it as 1 out of 17 cases.)
5% may sound small... but as a margin of error, it's pretty dern high.. isn't it?
posted on November 5, 2001 09:35:48 AM new
If this Anthrax threat is as bad as the media makes it out to be, there should be hundreds of people getting sick, but, in reality, it's not happening.
Headline news: The Anthrax threat. It's everywhere. What can you do to be safe? Turn off the Television.
[ edited by outoftheblue on Nov 5, 2001 10:41 AM ]
posted on November 5, 2001 10:10:45 AM new
"As usual Donny you've missed the point"
Hey! If you insult me, you insult about 20% of this place's total posters.
Have I missed the point? I guess so, 'cause I can't see what the point is. As far as it goes, I agree with you, people shouldn't panic. I'm not panicking; Like the woman quoted in the linked article, I have a husband to open my mail, what's to worry?
But I can't help but be amused by your constant cries to calm down!! It's only 2 cases.. it's only 4 cases... it's only 10 cases.. it's only 14 cases!! It's only media guys; it's only postal workers and media guys; it's only one regular person, postal workers, and media guys. Is there a point on this continuum where even you would begin to start to worry? I envision a time with a post of - It's only a few million cases, don't panic!!
Yes, you could say that I am worried about the Anthrax threat, but it's not because I'm worried about my health or the health of my friends or family.
I worry about the affect this is having on the economy. That people are unnecessarily worried about getting letters or packages through the mail. That panic is going to cause people to lose their jobs or means of income. It would be nice to hear the media put a positive spin on things for once..
posted on November 5, 2001 10:57:57 AM new
Everything in moderation. They are now reporting that small doses of anthrax has a medicinal therapuetic value if taken in moderation.
posted on November 5, 2001 11:02:35 AM new
Now I feel bad. I wasn't insulted, I was only poking at you.
I don't know that people are panicking, I think it's more a case of the media digging up people who are willing to squawk for them. Who's going to report on a story about nothing much happening? They've gotta find a couple of people to say - "I'm really scared!!"
But does that change how most people feel? Look at that linked article about the hotel in Fayetteville; people there weren't panicking, they flocked to the area to rubberneck.
I was in NYC last week, I didn't see anyone panicking; the bars were packed, people were gawking at the WTC site; "The Producers" is selling tickets for $480 apiece. Most times I had to stand on busses and subways at 2 in the afternoon. I had to fight off some blond to get a cab. All that while that Bronx woman was dying, and the head of postal worker's union was yelling on tv about getting the Manhattan postal building where anthrax was found, and continued to be found, closed. But I never saw that most postal workers in that building refused to go to work, regardless of the union guy's yelling on tv.
Remember, the economy was tanking before Sept. 11th... We're going to associate it with Sept. 11th occurrences, and the administration is going to encourage that link in our minds, but it was on a downward spiral before that.
posted on November 5, 2001 11:04:10 AM new
connorscorners,
Well, the good news is that it wasn't anthrax. Bad news is that it was probably intentional, another hoax. I really wonder how many hoaxes there have been so far in the nation. A dozen or so have been locally reported in this area alone because they involved hospitals, schools, large businesses and I'm guessing some smaller, more isolated cases locally have escaped media attention.
Placing to the side those that were intended as practical jokes on another person or a small group of people, like the story about the guy who was playing a joke on his boss, which though incredibly stupid apparently wasn't malicious, those perpetrated in places like hospitals, etc., attest to the fact that there are a lot of seriously disturbed people out there. In the nation as a whole, these incidents probably number in the thousands and they aren't ended yet. In fact, may not end for years.
These concern me almost as much as the foreign terrorist acts. It's only one small step from malicious hoaxes to a genuinely harmful one.
donny/outoftheblue -- Just read a Washington Post poll with about 5% points of variation, that reports 55% are somewhat concerned about the anthrax incidences; 45% are not particulary concerned. Close to half each way.
I'm a 45% grouper myself. I do believe that the media, through the extensiveness and repetitiveness of the coverage, is creating a greater state of alarm than the facts warrant. I anticipate any day now seeing some big money advertising on CNN for prozac and other psychotherapeutic drugs.
posted on November 5, 2001 11:55:05 AM new
Ciprozac. Sounds like an after-dinner drink.
Good article. The possibility of such a connection sprang to my mind the instant that I heard the Falwell/Robertson diatribe. That's when I thought...hey, their criticisms of American society aren't fundamentally different than those of bin Laden. They seemed to almost approve of the terrorists' attack as an appropriate wake-up call to a sinful, materialistic society. I'm not saying of course that I think that Falwell/Robertson, or other home-grown religious hate-mongers, were involved with the terrorists, but it did bring up the similarity of outlook and goals with those extremist groups.
posted on November 5, 2001 12:14:08 PM new
I think that it's a thin line. Religious fanaticism isn't the exclusive domain of any faction. Holy roll a tank or Holy roll a bus full of amplifiers with loudspeakers. Same persuasive intent.
posted on November 5, 2001 06:54:42 PM new
Somewhat concerned and not particularly concerned, Antiquary? What's the difference? I think I could say that I'm somewhat concerned about the anthrax outbreaks, but not particularly concerned, at the same time.
Perhaps truer to say that, with a margin of error of +/- 5%, that 100% of the people surveyed are concerned?
posted on November 5, 2001 08:51:46 PM new
this from an internal postal service newsbreak:
"There have been a total of 353 postal facilities evacuated as a result of 8,674 hoaxes, threats, and suspicious mailings.
Postal Inspectors as of friday have arrested 20 individuals for anthrax-related hoaxes and threats and are investigating 18 additional incidents."
Todaypostal inspectors arrested a USPS employee, Sharon Ann Watson of Stafford, VA on charges related to an anthrax hoax at the Falmouth, VA post office where she worked.
posted on November 6, 2001 10:46:01 PM new
"There have been a total of 353 postal facilities evacuated as a result of 8,674 hoaxes, threats, and suspicious mailings."
Hmmmmm, this is probably the reason we have several auction payments that are 2 weeks or more over due.
