posted on November 5, 2001 08:00:31 AM new
Regarding the multicultural curriculum etc.
Occasionally the professors at our state college are required to take a class in sensitivity training. I believe that would be appropriate and possibly helpful for elementary and high school educators and other people who work with children and young adults on a regular basis such as librarians etc.
Helen
ed to add other people who work with children on a regular basis.
I will be out for a few hours...if anyone wants to question my comment I will answer when I return.
[ edited by hjw on Nov 5, 2001 08:08 AM ]
posted on November 5, 2001 09:16:31 AM new
Which is a dig at me. Why not simply address it as such?
I work every day with people of Hispanic, Philippino, Tonganese, Indian (the India variety), Jamaican, Vietnamese, Korean and several other ethnic backgrounds. I treat each and every one the same and have no problem doing so. I find it absurd that simply because one acknowledges a problem with one aspect of multiculturalism it is assumed that one is insensitive and intolerant.
I'm sure that Helen's remarks are meant to be taken as expression of her concerned and helpful spirit. No doubt she saw the report last night on national television of your blatantly biased attitudes and knowing you, she came forward to your assistance while all around you only sit idly by as you head inexorably toward the fires of eternal damnation. It took a great deal of courage for her to do that.
posted on November 5, 2001 02:37:14 PM new
bunnicula,
This is an apology that takes a lot of courage and is evidence of "my concern and helpful spirit."
I'm afraid that I am guilty of misunderstanding the problems involved in multicultural education. I want to apologize to you because I thought that I was right and you were wrong without researching the problem. While Auctionwatch was off line, I did a lot of reading and found the following site especially helpful.
Excerpt..." We should focus on the similarities and not the differences to achieve greater equanimity among the races."
"For example, multicultural education rejects the historic American goals of assimilation and integration of ethnic cultures into the majority culture. Hence, the perception may result that America is a country of distinct ethnic groups, as opposed to a more traditional view of the country that involves individuals making decisions for the good of the order
I really am sorry that I misunderstood your position.
posted on November 5, 2001 07:06:54 PM new
But it's not the job of the schools to teach tolerance or morals, or sensitivity. It's families that are failing there.
I taught in a culturally diverse school. Kindergartners came already equipped with a full set of prejudices. A school cannot undo what is constantly reinforced at home. It's time to quit blaming teachers for what parents should be, but are not, doing.
posted on November 5, 2001 09:04:27 PM new
bearmom
"Kindergartners came already equipped with a full set of prejudices. A school cannot undo what is constantly reinforced at home. It's time to quit blaming teachers for what parents should be, but are not, doing."
You are so right. Teachers should not be doing the job of a child's parents. It is a teacher's job to teach basic skills, math, science, etc. Tolerance, sensitivity, ethics, and good manners should be learned at home.
Unfortunately though many parents are failing miserably at teaching basic values to their children. That's the reason there's so many young criminals.
posted on November 6, 2001 01:19:40 AM new
"It goes on & on. And in some ways the new "multiculturalism" is destroying this country--instead of encouraging emigrants to become American, it is telling them to keep their old national identity."
Hogwash.
First off, immigrants who come and attain citizenship are American. They don't have to conform to what your idea of "American" is to be Americans.
Secondly, the idea that America was ever a melting pot is a fallacy. It never was, and if it's not now, it's not because of this "new 'multicultuarlism' " it's simply because it never was in the first place. Chinatowns, Little Italies, Germantown Pa., pizza parlors, Irish bars, all that good stuff, all predated the "new 'multiculturalism' " You're pointing at something that you don't approve of, and blaming it for the loss of something that never was.
The country is not being destroyed because it's not as Anglo as you want it to be.
How new is this "new" multiculturalism? Newer than 30 years? That's when I learned about Crispus Atticus, and Paul Revere.
"US history is an almost unknown subject to most of our school kids, who are more familiar with Ancient Egypt than their own country."
Since when? I have kids, my youngest just finished high school. I have grandkids, in 4th and 6th grade. They all learn/have learned American history. What kids are these that you say are more familiar with Ancient Egypt than with their own country?
And...
"They learn that it is a waste of time to read things written by white Europeans."
posted on November 6, 2001 02:06:16 AM new
No Donny,
You've missed the point as well. 'America' is the myth, it's always been multicultural. You're sortof right about the objection raised but for the wrong reasons: Chinatowns, Little Italies, Germantown Pa., pizza parlors, Irish bars, all that good stuff, don't predated the "new 'multiculturalism' ", they are part and parcel of what the term means. Established by choice as often as not on land that is called America, they are elements of cultures brought with immigrants and preserved even fostered by birthright. There's nothing wrong with that, nor is there
anything wrong with schools adapting to the cultural makeup of their client students. The objection here is not that the cultural composite exists it is that some have grown larger than the objector would prefer.
Bunnicula would have her "white european" (whatever that means; Ireland isn't Europe) definition of America prevail as predominately as it has in the past, but as some wag said "the times they are a changin'". That change is in the proportions of the population that lives on the ground called 'america'. As the color of the stew in the meltingpot turns browner, blacker, or yellower than whiter, so must curriculums alter in hue. That takes work if it doesn't come naturally and everyone objects to work.
posted on November 6, 2001 05:51:34 AM new
It's very unfortunate that these children have been injured this way. The same goes for the innocent children injured and killed in Germany and Japan during the WW2 years. However, this happens is these situations. This would not have been in our concerns if on 9-11-01, our planes and our innocent people and children would have been left alone.
What about the many pictures of the people who were injured and mamed for life in this country???
posted on November 6, 2001 06:56:13 AM new
"What about the many pictures of the people who were injured and mamed for life in this country??? "
In this country, the tragedy of the WTC and the Pentagon is felt with an intense awareness and consciousness raising with pictures is not necessary. In fact we are now responding to the tragedy of these people killed in our country with military action. On the other hand, the innocent people of Afghanistan are suffering and being killed right now . If we can raise the consciousness of Americans with pictures of their tragedy, I believe that it should be attempted.
Your comment, "this happens in these situation" is the prevailing attitude of many Americans and I hope that we can change that.
posted on November 6, 2001 02:17:04 PM new
I don't think I missed the point, Krs, and you've basically said what I said.
The "new multiculturalism" that Bunnicula complains of is tied to the new make-up of America. I'd guess that Cinqo de Mayo celebrations are part of this "new multiculturalism," encouraging people to keep their old National identity, discouraging them from becoming "Americans" (according to Bunnicula's defination of what an "American" is), so it should go. Are we gonna throw out St. Patrick's Day too?
No one can deny that the basis of America is immigration and its attendant multiculturalism, no matter what your 3rd grade textbook said about "the melting pot." Bunnicula's issue is about "new" multiculturalism. This is nothing more than the classic complaint of "The neighborhood got ruined when the _____s moved in." The new group moves in, the old ways are changed, the neighborhood, or, America, got ruined. The irony of the "neighborhood got ruined when ____s moved in" is that it's invariably uttered by a group who were once the _____s themselves, in relation to the previous residents.
The neighborhood changes according to what people move in; This has always been the case. On the larger scale, it's the same way with America; it changes according to who moves in.
In the Bunnicula view, the neighborhood, and America, should remain the same, always, never reflecting its changing residents. The new residents should fit themselves to the existing neighborhood.
But this is not, and never has been, the way of America. America changes according to its population. To insist that the new population change to conform itself to a White Bread vision of America is to deny every immigrant citizen, past and future, one of the most best aspects of being American - the ability of our country to, not just imprint Americanism on our new citizens, but to be imprinted by them as well.
posted on November 6, 2001 02:36:26 PM new
My mother was part of historic "multiculturism" you're all talking about. The difference between then and now???? You might LIVE in little Italy, but when you went to school English was spoken - ONLY. If you didn't speak it, they didn't bring in an Italian tutor, you "picked it up" or too bad. History class were about Washington and Jefferson, around high school somebody mentioned Europe existed.
Today's education is a sham with our kids usually rated poorly against other nations. Your 5 yr can sing Sesame St's theme in Spanish, but he can't add or subtract. On any news program when some reporter sticks a microphone in some Jr. High or High School kid's face, aren't you all absolutely amazed at what comes out??? It's no wonder that almost everyone I know sends their kids to private (mostly RC) schools.
Helen, you keep mentioning again and again about "all the innocent people being killed" as if it were thousands! How can you even begin to know? I saw on Fox News that we are now using "daisy cutter" weapons on the troops on the front lines. But even with these nasty weapons, I doubt any "innocent civilians" are being killed considering they've been shooting at each other in these areas for 8 yrs now.
posted on November 6, 2001 03:27:25 PM new
DeSquirrel
"Helen, you keep mentioning again and again about "all the innocent people being killed" as if it were thousands! How can you even begin to know? I saw on Fox News that we are now using "daisy cutter" weapons on the troops on the front lines. But even with these nasty weapons, I doubt any "innocent civilians" are being killed considering they've been shooting at each other in these areas for 8 yrs now."
Over 6,000 bombs have been dropped already, many of which missed their intended target. I don't understand how you can think that there have been no civilian casualties.
Despite the expressions of concern about cluster bombs, and claims about a number of other misdirected weapons causing significant civilian casualties, US forces yesterday launched their fiercest airstrikes to date against the Taleban front line in Northern Afghanistan, following heavy night attacks on Tuesday.
For President Bush and Tony Blair, who promised a carefully targeted campaign, every civilian death chips away at the moral high ground taken by America and Britain in avenging the deaths of September 11. As long as the airstrikes continue, however, there will inevitably be “collateral damage”, a phrase familiar from the Nato air campaign against Yugoslavia in 1999.
So far the number of bombing errors leading to civilian deaths in Afghanistan has been relatively limited but the incidents are accumulating. They include the attack on Herat in which a stray bomb damaged a military hospital, reportedly killing 100 people; a strike on the outskirts of Kabul that hit a residential area; a Tomahawk cruise missile attack in the capital that killed four United Nations staff; a direct hit on a Red Cross warehouse; and the disputed airstrike on the village of Karam.
The relatively new JDAM weapon, linked to a satellite, should provide the most accurate form of bombing and its deployment for Operation Enduring Freedom helped to underwrite political statements in Washington and London that the airstrikes had been meticulously planned to try to avoid civilian casualties.
But it was a JDAM — a standard 1,000lb or 2,000lb bomb fitted with an advanced guidance system — that hit a residential area of Kabul, killing four civilians. The bomb, which was supposed to hit a helicopter at Kabul airport, was a mile off course because the satellite co-ordinates were wrong.
Duncan Lennox, editor of Jane’s Air-Launched Weapons, said: “There are so many things that can go wrong with a weapon system. The trouble is that when a new weapon is tested it’s over a flat desert in New Mexico but you can’t expect the same results when launching a bomb in the mountains in Afghanistan.”
He said that although the JDAM guidance system was able to make adjustments to take wind changes into account, the software was not necessarily capable of reacting to every change in conditions, especially as the weapon approached the final stage of its journey. The pilot also had to ensure that he was at the right altitude and at the right speed before releasing the weapon. “Sometimes a pilot might get over-excited, despite his training, and release the bomb too early or too late,” he said. The JDAM is now fitted to a range of American strike aircraft and bombers, including the B1 bomber, B2 Stealth bomber, B52, F15E, F16, F117 Stealth fighter and the carrier-based FA18, which has been doing much of the most recent bombing over Afghanistan.
posted on November 6, 2001 03:46:45 PM new
I didn't say there weren't ANY.
Let's see:
"claims about a number of other misdirected weapons causing significant civilian casualties"
"reportedly killing 100 people"
"that killed four United Nations staff"
You'd think they'd drag out each body for Al Jezeera to film.
Hey, maybe we disrupted the status quo enough that the Taliban couldn't get around to hanging those 200 guys a week for wearing penny loafers or playing Michael Jackson. WE JUST SAVED 96 lives!!!
The bottom line is that one innocent person killed or injured in this crazy military action is too many. If you are old enough to have a child, how would you feel if your child's leg was ripped off by an American bomb gone astray?
Keep in mind that you and your child were not involved in the WTC tragedy.
posted on November 6, 2001 05:28:59 PM newDonny:The "new multiculturalism" that Bunnicula complains of is tied to the new make-up of America. I'd guess that Cinqo de Mayo celebrations are part of this "new multiculturalism," encouraging people to keep their old National identity, discouraging them from becoming "Americans" (according to Bunnicula's defination of what an "American" is), so it should go. Are we gonna throw out St. Patrick's Day too?
You'd guess wrong. Celebrating ethnic holidays has nothing to do with it.
Bunnicula's issue is about "new" multiculturalism. This is nothing more than the classic complaint of "The neighborhood got ruined when the _____s moved in."
Oh, brother. Guess what? I've lived in integrated neighborhoods all my life. You don't know anything about me.
In the Bunnicula view, the neighborhood, and America, should remain the same, always, never reflecting its changing residents. The new residents should fit themselves to the existing neighborhood.
I think you need to re-read what I said originally, because you are stating things I never said. But that's hardly surprising--people see & hear what they want to in the AW RT.
I said: "in some ways the new "multiculturalism" is destroying this country--instead of encouraging emigrants to become American, it is telling them to keep their old national identity."
And it's true. Even some that are born here in the US claim allegiance instead to other countries. And that *does* rankle.
I happen to believe that anyone who comes to the US legally is welcome. And have said so here in the RT many times in the past. But I also believe that if one comes here, than one should whole-heartedly embrace one's country of choice. Learn the language, know the history, jump into the culture, etc. etc. etc. Whether some like it or not, we do have a language and a culture and this is America--not Germany, Mexico, Laos, Russia, China or anywhere else--America. If someone wants to be another nationality, let them stay in that nation--why bother to come if you don't want to be an American?
posted on November 6, 2001 08:45:21 PM new
bunnicula, put donny on ignore the way I did a while back.
I happen to agree with everything you've said. When I was a kid and even when my kids were in school it was different. When someone from another country (any country) went to kindergarden they might not have spoken English. Before they went to 1st grade they had a good grasp of the language. By the time they were in 3rd grade they didn't even have an accent. Why? Because they wanted to fit in. Now they're taught they don't have to fit in. Come to school speak your former countries language, hang with people just like you, then go home to your countries neighborhood.
People couldn't wait to become American Citizens. Ask new immigrants today if they are going to take our countries oath, more than likely the answer will be no. The reasons given are - they are going back "home" eventually. After they make enough money, after the war in their country is over, but they always have some excuse.
I believe we used to be the melting pot. Now we're just a bucket holding people that don't care about fitting in or adapting to our country.
when I left before I thought of that post and realized you might of thought I was making fun of you. I wasn't and wouldn't. I would call you, based on your posts, a "peacemaker". I don't know what you do for a living. My degrees are in Chemistry and I'm a network administrator. I tend to measure everything and once A decision is made never re-hash it endlessly. In school, I devoured books and history. THroughout history peacemakers have been slaughtered. The problem I think is that they cannot comprehend the totality of evil that can confront them. Woodrow Wilson "kept us out of war". How many millions more died in WWI as a result. A few tens of thousands of dead when Hitler entered the Rhineland would have prevented WWII.
People always say why should we send American boys to fight here or there. My answer is that it is our portion. Your life, your freedom, you and your friends' lifestyle were purchased and paid for years ago. Periodically the bank account goes dry and it is up to those chosen to "invest" again in these things, not just for themselves but for those children who might die.
posted on November 6, 2001 09:37:15 PM newbunnicula,
"krs: No, you missed the point as well. Look back on what I posted--that is not what I said".
I wasn't trying to argue your case at all, so you've missed the point as well. I WAS trying to rile Donny by agreeing with her without agreeing with her to see if she'd argue against herself, but I failed.
posted on November 6, 2001 10:25:02 PM new
"I WAS trying to rile Donny by agreeing with her without agreeing with her to see if she'd argue against herself, but I failed."
Oh, tsk tsk, do you think so little of me after these years on the board? I may not know what I'm talking about most of the time, but I usually know what I'm saying.
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It's a big person who could say what you just did.