posted on November 8, 2001 09:57:37 PM new
[b]Being born here does make one American.
But I think that you are wrong in saying that that is the be-all and end-all.
I was born here, so I'm a citizen. However, despite what you say I *would* be less of an American if I gave my allegiance to another country, put it ahead of my own, sang their anthem in place of ours, waved their flag instead of ours, put their interests over ours.[/b]
I think she defined it right here. Yes, being born here makes you an American citizen, but.... does it make you an American at heart? I agree w/ Bunnicula - if you are here as a citizen, but pledge your allegiance to another country (and so on), that most certainly makes you less of a citizen (obviously not in a legal sense, as lagalities may be) but you have too see her point here. (You do, don't you? I'm not looking for an argument here, I just do not believe that nobody can understand where Bunnicula is coming from with the above statement.)
However, if one takes the time and tenacity (sp?) to BECOME an American citizen (as my MIL has) why on EARTH would one....nevermind, I just answered my own question - of course one would - anything to further one's cause.
Please excuse the use of "one" and "ones" - I did have "you" in its place, and it appeared as though I was targeting posters (IMO), which is not the case.
[ edited by shellsputer on Nov 8, 2001 10:00 PM ]
one of these times I'll get UBB right!!!!
[ edited by shellsputer on Nov 8, 2001 10:02 PM ]
posted on November 8, 2001 10:10:54 PM new
So then you, and bunnicula as well, have somehow become "Heart Police" roving the streets and alleys, the schoolyards and chatboards with some sort of American Heart detector searching out all those who are not [i]"an American at heart?"[/i.
Get over it, no amount of judgemental crap is going to determine the level of patriotism in any other person, and unless I read it wrong being an american means that you are free to do all of those things which you and she deem as destroying the heart of america.
posted on November 8, 2001 10:57:53 PM new
Sure, I understand where Bunnicula is coming from, Shellsputer, and she's right, I don't like it.
Any American citizen has as much freedom as any other American citizen to define what it is to be an American in any way he chooses, no matter if you see it as less American than the way you define what it is to be an American. And when I say freedom, I don't mean a merely legally defined freedom, but a freedom that goes beyond any law. If there is a greatness to America, it's not in the flag, The Pledge of Allegiance, in our language, or a culture. It's in the freedom to be an American in whatever way each American chooses to define it.
This idea that all citizens are Americans, but some are more American than others, is bigotry. Nothing more, nothing less.
posted on November 9, 2001 04:51:17 AM new
I understand exactly what Bunnicula is saying. I'm high on sinus medicine, so forgive me if I don't make a lot of sense.
One can be an American citizen without adopting the so called 'american culture'. Nor should they have to. But a true American supports his country's ideals of liberty and democracy. He contributes to the welfare and safety of his country to the best of his individual abilities and beliefs (some people have a religious rule against participating in a war). If they do this, they are Americans, no matter what language they speak or native costumes they wear.
He can be a citizen and still plot against America, or give aid and support to the enemy. That person may be a citizen-he's not a true American in the way that Bunnicula is talking about. The terrorists could have become citizens. That would not have made them americans in the sense that Bunnicula means.
posted on November 9, 2001 06:30:58 AM new
It must have been very disconcerting, bearmom, to have your president lauding Mexico and the mexican immigrants in this country, legal and illegal. even to have him offer an amnesty to all of those welfare using, taxpayer burdoning, users of but not contributors to the system like good americans, and illegal immigrants so they could continue as before with presidential blessings. What could he have been thinking?
And "He contributes to the welfare and safety of his country to the best of his individual abilities and beliefs (some people have a religious rule against participating in a war). If they do this, they are Americans, no matter what language they speak or native costumes they wear".
I guess that means that if an immigrant fights in a U.S. war HE's OK, but otherwise not? It also means, you know, that you will never be a good american by your standard--unless, I guess, you can come up with a religious reason not to go to war.
I'm sure glad to hear that I can wear my native costumes if I fight in a war though.
you ought to make your sinus high a regular thing. You sure make more sense than you usually do.
posted on November 9, 2001 12:16:47 PM new
Oath of Loyalty to the US:
The oath includes giving up any foreign citizenship and all loyalty to any other county. It also includes a promise to obey orders from the government to serve in the US Military Forces.
Excluded:
When moral beliefs forbid bearing arms in war. Does not exclude serving in another capacity, such as, office work.
So then you, and bunnicula as well, have somehow become "Heart Police" roving the streets and alleys, the schoolyards and chatboards with some sort of American Heart detector searching out all those who are not [i]"an American at heart?".
I don't go roving the streets and alleys, schoolyards and chatboards with [b]ANY[b/] kind of detector, much less some sort of "American Heart Detector". Pleeeeeeze.
I wasn't trying to be judgemental, and I did use the wrong word. I didn't mean "less of a citizen", I meant "American". What I was trying to say, or maybe ask, is, if you're legally an American, yet your loyalties lie with another country, then how can you say you're an American, with a straight face, knowing you don't give a crap about this country? (I know, I know, you can say it simply because you are, but does anybodyunderstand what I'm asking?)
Perhaps I'm not finding the right words that I need to convey what I'm trying to say. I could care less about how patriotic one person is compared to the one he stands next to. To each his own. When I figure out how to say what I wanted to say last night, I'll say it. Til then, I'll leave it alone, cuz I re-read what I posted and I can see how I bungled it all up. (not that it's an excuse, but I had a couple drinks and it made sense when I was typing)(lesson learned - keep the alcohol in the more light hearted threads
posted on November 9, 2001 03:40:56 PM new
There are several assumptions being made about people here, without seeming to have asked them what their allegiances might be, or where their loyalties lie. It makes me wonder just how I'd be received wearing my waterproofed turban, my mufti, and my sandals with my medals for heroism and my purple heart attached to my cloth belt and shouting 'praise allah' while I shake my mariachi rattles to a salsa beat played on koto and flute.
posted on November 9, 2001 04:20:58 PM new
You may be an American without the approval of bunnicula and her concept of undivided allegiance and patriotism. You may prefer to be a Russian or a German but until you have the funds to leave this country and establish a home elsewhere, you are an American and as such deserve and may enjoy all that America has to offer.
If you immigrate to this country and become a citizen, then you are an American even if you feel a stronger attachment or allegiance with your country of origin.
posted on November 9, 2001 04:27:58 PM newIf you immigrate to this country and become a citizen, then you are an American even if you feel a stronger attachment or allegiance with your country of origin.
If that's the case, why would one bother, I wonder?
Now c'mon, Helen. Go put on your mufti and grab your maracas. I'm fixing the margaritas and Enchanted is bringing the barbequed goat. Once that Party Animal, krs shows up, we can REALLY get this place rocking.
Someone will have to keep an eye on Rawbunzel so she doesn't strip nekked and dance on the tables again.
posted on November 9, 2001 04:54:14 PM new
There are certain laws that all Americans must obey. Other than that, our culture is based on freedoms, not restrictions. Like the freedom to speak a foreign language in public. IMO, comments above are immigrant-bashing, plain and simple.
