posted on February 16, 2002 09:48:17 PM new
Helen, please re-read my early post. I never suggested that anyone buy any car - new OR used - if they couldn't afford it. (Neither did Saabsister.)
(Let's not fight. I filled my daily fight quota today on the EO. Besides, I'm no match for you when it comes to vocabulary. )
posted on February 17, 2002 07:55:55 AM new
I'd like to stick my two cents in about the new car bit...If you bought a car new back in the 80's they are alot better that the 90's.I've had alot of cars from the 80's that were great.Had a 1981 Nissan truck that had over 400,000 miles on it when I sold it but you could have slung a cat through some of the rust holes!But it got 40 miles to the gal of gas and used no oil.Toyota has been know for the same.
posted on February 17, 2002 08:34:08 AM new
hjw,
Sadly, you have hit the nail on the head.
My son was angry because my husband bought him a cheap pair of tennis shoes that we all know will last a total of 1 month. Sometimes there just isn't any choice. Those shoes will have to be a "bridge" until a quality pair can be bought.
We keep pouring money into repairing our old cars. Our "repair money" ran out, so my husband drives my car to work. I am borrowing a car that I can't even help pay the insurance on (from parents).
A new car is impossible. Repair is impossible. The roof leaks in 4 places. Tough luck.
Did we charge or spend ourselves into this situation? No way. We always used a planned budget. Always put money in savings. But 3 Companies I worked for went bankrupt, and my husband kept getting laid off, only now they have a fancy way of wording it so you are cut off from all medical coverage or even a partial pay. Every time I get a little saved up, an emergency arrises.
Somehow, we have never been able to qualify for any kind of aid for food, utilities, medical, or heat.
So, I have for years bought used clothes (Ebay has been a huge help for this + Christmas/b-day gifts). My husband built our computers, and we do without. You run out of ways to cut back.
BTW I no longer donate to United Way or similarly-run charities because they have all turned us down.
What's the name of that gov't agency where you get a regular check when you still can't get a job? Unemployment services? After waiting a long time to be allowed to receive these checks (we would have starved if not for food from a church & family), they are billing us every month because they said they paid us too long.
My husband didn't sit on his duff hoping for welfare. He was out job hunting and taking temporary work.
Oh, well. Even though people are quick to think we're cheapskates or we spent ourselves into our situation, I learned to shrug it off. We've learned to be a happy family inside our own home.
posted on February 17, 2002 08:37:26 AM new
BTW, my best cares were Fords. A tiny Escort and then a Taurus. Both lasted 10+ years. Still have the Taurus - still running.
posted on February 17, 2002 11:18:59 AM new
Helen, if you mean that I don't understand poverty, you're both right and wrong. I have experienced living payday to payday, eating spagetti for days on end, having thirteen buckets lined up under various leaks in the roof and having to take a full time job to pay for the repairs. I've only gotten rid of two cars before driving them at least twelve years. I've had credit card debt that I've paid off with my tax return only to turn around and add car repairs to it. When I married 30 years ago, anyone could find an apartment even at a minimum wage salary. All that has changed.
There is a disgusting disparity of income in this country. I really think people are going to have to come out of the closet on this one and start attending their local city council and board of supervisor's meetings and using that "citizen's time" period to explain dispassionately their situations. Their friends should attend and tell their stories too. The press usually covers these meetings. Picket the state houses. Make yourselves and your stories visible and heard.
posted on February 17, 2002 11:30:39 AM new
But what would we say at these meetings? What would we say was our point? They might just think we want a free handout.
We considered putting our very low-priced home up for sale when hubby got laid off. But apartment rentals, even in the projects, were higher than our mtge pymt. I was shocked. I thought we could cut costs, move to aptmt and live to buy again another day.
What could we specifically complain about at a town mtg?
posted on February 17, 2002 11:51:21 AM new
Alwaysbroke, I'd say that I had played by the rules - my husband and I both worked and bought a house. Because of circumstances beyond our control, our jobs had been eliminated. Basically, I'd say what you related in your post. Ask the politicians on the board for their suggestions. Tell them that you're willing to work and have worked. Tell them that you want to get your lives back on track. Ask what they're doing to bring viable, above minimum wages jobs to your community. Ask what they envision your town being like in ten years if there are no jobs. Ask your state representatives the same thing. Get in their faces and don't let them ignore you. Do it diplomatically so that they can't write you off as some kook. Write letters to the editors of your local and state newspapers detailling your concerns. Make them feel like you could be their daughter or your husband their son.
posted on February 17, 2002 11:59:49 AM new
Alwaysbroke, get as many statistics as you can about employment and the cost of living in your state. In other words, get the facts about what it costs for a family to live in your area - all the background that you can - and approach the local or a large newspaper and ask if they'd cover that story.
posted on February 17, 2002 12:03:02 PM new
saabsister
I didn't intend to infer that you did not understand poverty. I used some information from your comment but my comment was not directed to you when I said "some people".
I've become very indifferent to how most people here view my opinions but I certainly don't want you to misunderstand.
We would all be lucky to have the understanding that you do about everything.
Helen
ubb ed.
[ edited by hjw on Feb 17, 2002 12:05 PM ]
posted on February 17, 2002 12:47:46 PM new
Helen, it was a misunderstanding.
I think what has made the difference for my husband and I in our ability to get ahead of our debts - in addition to his being able to work long enough at one job to draw a retirement - is long term planning.We pulled as much money as we could out of his salary for deferred comp and savings. It hurt at the time to do this but was beneficial in the long term.
I bought the Saab because I expected it to last longer than my car payment. My Subaru didn't fare so well. I've lived in a small house and prepaid a fifteen year note. I don't buy a lot of new furniture or clothes. I've always carried adequate insurance even as a student. And when really pinched for money, we've worked more than one job. Also, my husband gave up smoking when he was in his twenties so that has saved us a lot of money.
With his new job, we have a good income, but the disparity of income in the US still ticks me off.
posted on February 17, 2002 05:37:15 PM new
A couple of things I'd tell a young couple starting out (if they asked me!): Don't buy the fast food--at least not very often. Don't let your kids sucker you into buying the cheap, flashy supermarket crap-toys they whine for. And pay off your credit card every month.
I wish money-management were taught in high schools and was a required course. I see people all the time making horrible decisions about spending. Check out the supermarket carts sometime and see how much of the loads are just junk food and cheap items they'll be selling some day in a garage sale. Not blaming poor people here, you know--just wishing rich and poor alike were more careful about spending. The poor would benefit the most of course from learning how to manage their money more wisely. And I DO UNDERSTAND that life circumstances can throw a family into poverty through no fault of their own. I do get that!
posted on February 17, 2002 06:18:41 PM new
roadsmith,
I went to what used to be one of the best school systems. Part of our business ed was money management. We had to pretend to rent/buy living quarters, furniture, food, clothes, etc., on a limited income. We had to make up budgets.
1st thing I did after marriage was work up a written budget spread sheet, balance sheet, and EOY sheet. Followed it faithfully. Then worked up a projected savings-to-investment plan covering a multi-year period. But, like you intimated, stuff happens. We were reduced to deciding which bills to pay. We aren't cc'd out. Just can't meet the absolutely necessary bills (mortgage, utilities, food). As last resort we went to Credit Counseling, but they admitted we hadn't abused our finances.
This whole problem was created by lay-offs and company closings. Do you remember the Reagan era? He encouraged companies to cut costs by replacing each full-time employee with 2 part-timers, thus saving on benefit packages.
Companies don't want long-term employees anymore. My folks always taught me to "look for a good, solid company with good benefits and stay for life so you have retirement. Companies appreciate faithful, hard workers." Nope, they use you until you get too expensive and then replace you with someone cheaper. At least one of my husband's employers came right out and admitted this to his face the day they let him go. AFter he helped build the store from the ground up and brought them up to #1 in the district, they were done with him (oh, yeah, they had all along promised promotions on up the ladder).
Being older and wiser, he would probably want any promises in writing.
Thanks for mentioning that some things DO happen out of our control.
posted on February 17, 2002 07:31:38 PM new
there you have it, the plain truth laid out for all to see. The elite here are no longer smart enough to know they must leave a share of their wealth for the very people who make it possible. They continue to allow thousands of illegals into the country while the layoffs reach record proportions, You get Hilary wanting to pay out money to illegal aliens not because she is a bad person, but rather because she is an idiot who has no undestanding at all of what the people want or need. She does not have this because she does not give a damm in the first place Like El republicano in the White House they don't have a clue. they only know that they think it's their right to destroy our communities. it is the corporate American class who has no business at all asking for the loyalty of any american worker. (there are some notable exceptions of varying degrees like harley ) This is the real reason they want gun control, we all know it's going to come to a fight. it's really sad the very people whose sons and daughters would be the bastion of the idea of democracy are trashed by these weird off the wall lunatics, Join the militia now it's your friends and neighbors like it was 200 years ago. and no I don't belong to any group
but my heart is there with the people all across America who can finally see that these goofballs with their zaney ideas, their constant scams and a lot of bodies piling up do not deserve to run this place one second longer. We demand that Corporations who only exist as a courtesy of the state and their officers be held accountable for the promises and if they steal lie cheat or just screw up they pay out of their bigshots pockets. did you hear exxon has had some pimping crud like scab of a judge, crawl out of a hole in San francisco to cut the amount of damages in the still unpaid exxon valdez case ? Who needs terrorists with drunken ship captians working for the Texas Oil boys who plugged Kennedy. One thing you can do in your community is work with a group called halt out of dc which is trying to reform the bizzare legal system that the bar assn has perverted into a slip and fall settle out of court abortion that lets OJ go. The local area here has a new diversity group, gee not a White on the council, you can bet if they find one it will be some snivleing pansy. there are still 240 million of us here in the USA .Its time to think about our future. When Human hearts break and Souls despair, Then out of the depths and darkness of the past, the mighty conquerors reach out their eternal hands to show the way, Woe to the poeple that is afraid to grasp them.
posted on February 18, 2002 12:58:26 PM new
What I hate is the fact we are being lied to and being told our Economy is on the rebound, are you kidding me! Things are are about to be the worst they have ever been in history and basically no matter how hard you try things only get worse.The fact of the matter is we have never in history had to battle the cost of living the way we are seeing it today.Our goverment is going to nothing except take more from us than they are already robbing us for.I don't care who is in office....we have been had.
posted on February 19, 2002 05:55:28 AM new
swedish cars -they are well built but when something goes wrong,the repair bill can take you to the poorhouse.
what i dont understand is -in poor countries,poor people are skinny but in this country,many are obese.
food scarcity is not a problem for the poor here!
which comes to the question of health and health insurance,obesity contributes to poor health.
i do not eat dinner,if i am hungry,i look for some snacks at nite,many times i go to back with an empty stomach,i think it is healthy that way
posted on February 19, 2002 08:23:23 AM new
Not eating regular meals is a good way to get ulcers. Someone I once worked with only ate one meal a day (by choice). He passed out in the office one day (internal bleeding from ulcers he didn't know he had) and was carted away in an ambulance. If the acids in your stomach don't have any food to work on, they attack the lining of your stomach.
posted on February 19, 2002 10:29:44 AM new
Cheap food is fattening. I think when you can't afford fruits, vegs, meats, you buy cheap (macaroni, generic cereal, unhealthy plain bread, drink mixes, spaghetti, generic peanut butter). Also potatoes can be cooked several ways (fries, jo jos, mashed baked, homefries) which can clog the arteries. Lots of butter noodles. So there are a lot of ways to fill tummies that will keep you from starving, but can be fattening and cause health problems later.
posted on February 19, 2002 10:52:32 AM newThey continue to allow thousands of illegals into the country while the layoffs reach record proportions
I just don't understand why our gov't is looking for add'l ways to employ and house a new & larger influx of aliens (making it legal)right now. There aren't enough jobs. Too many service jobs instead of high-paying professional jobs.
Let's get on our feet, first, build new industry, & create new jobs. If they keep giving away our best jobs and scholarships, where are we supposed to go to live?
I challenge any of you to do scholarship searches. Then tell me where most of them are going.
posted on February 19, 2002 10:54:19 AM new
I reread the question at the beginning of this thread: Sometimes I wonder if I will ever see the other end of the tunnel other than the on coming train.How about you?
posted on February 19, 2002 11:00:18 AM new
stopwhining...This may answer your question.
HUNGER IN THE UNITED STATES
Federal Response to Hunger | Hunger & Poverty
Health Consequences of Hunger | Public Attitudes Toward Hunger
National Statistics | Recent Hunger Studies
One of the most disturbing and extraordinary aspects of life in this very wealthy country is the persistence of hunger. The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) reports, based on a national U.S. Census Bureau survey of households representative of the U.S. population, that in 1999 ten percent of all U.S. households, representing 19 million adults and 12 million children, were "food insecure" because of lack of resources. Of the 10.5 million households that were food insecure, 3.1 million suffered from food insecurity that was so severe that USDA's very conservative measure classified them as "hungry." Five million adults and 2.7 million children lived in these hungry households.
Definitions: What Do Hunger and Food Insecurity Mean in the United States?
Very simply, hunger is defined as "the uneasy or painful sensation caused by lack of food." (Life Sciences Research Office, Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology) When "hunger in America" is discussed, people are referring to the recurrent and involuntary lack of access to sufficient food due to poverty or constrained resources, which can lead to malnutrition over time. In some developing nations where famine is widespread, hunger manifests itself as severe and very visible clinical malnutrition. The United States has a higher standard of living and a high level of food production. Also, established nutrition assistance programs help to provide a safety net for many low-income families. While starvation seldom occurs in this country, children and adults do go hungry and chronic mild undernutrition does occur when financial resources are low. The mental and physical changes that accompany inadequate food intakes can have harmful effects on learning, productivity, physical and psychological health, and family life.
New phrases have emerged over the last two decades to describe the widespread but less severe hunger problems we typically face in the United States. Food security is a term used to describe what our nation should be seeking for all its people -- "assured access at all times to enough food for an active, healthy life, with no need for recourse to emergency food sources or other extraordinary coping behaviors to meet basic food needs." In a nation as affluent as ours this is a readily achievable goal. Food insecurity refers to the "lack of access to enough food to fully meet basic needs at all times" due to lack of financial resources. There are different levels of food insecurity.
The Census Bureau's Hunger Survey
Until very recently there was no national survey of hunger. Since 1995 the U.S. Census Bureau has conducted an annual survey of food security among a nationally representative sample of people living in the U.S. The questions asked are about anxiety that the household budget is inadequate to buy enough food; inadequacy in the quantity or quality of food eaten by adults and children in the household; and instances of reduced food intake or consequences of reduced food intake for adults and for children. Households are classified as food secure, food insecure, and food insecure with hunger according to the answers to these questions. The survey (called the"food security module" is widely respected and will serve as the basis for evaluating our nation's progress in reducing food insecurity -- one of the Surgeon General's health objectives for the nation for the year 2010.
Households that are classified as hungry are those in which adults have decreased the quality and quantity of food they consume because of lack of money to the point where they are quite likely to be hungry on a frequent basis, or in which children's intake has been reduced due to lack of family financial resources, to the point that children are likely to be hungry on a regular basis and adults' food intake is severely reduced.
Even when hunger is not present, adults in households determined to be food insecure by the survey are so limited in resources to buy food that they are running out of food, or reducing the quality of food their family eats, or feeding their children unbalanced diets, or skipping meals so their children can eat, or taking certain other steps to adjust to their economic problems that threaten the adequacy of the family's diet.
Who Is Hungry in America?
According to the results of the Census Bureau survey, those at greatest risk of being hungry or on the edge of hunger (i.e., food insecure) live in households that are: headed by a single woman; Hispanic or Black; or with incomes below the poverty line. Overall, households with children experience food insecurity at more than double the rate for households without children. In addition, the prevalence of food insecurity in central cities and rural areas substantially exceeds that of suburbs and other metropolitan areas outside central cities.
The survey also finds that households are more likely to be hungry or food insecure if they live in states in the West and South -- Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas, Oklahoma, New Mexico, Arizona, California, Oregon, and Washington - - and in the nation's capital. All of these states have food insecurity rates above the national average.
What Do Other Surveys Report?
Other evidence that many people are hungry in America comes from the widespread reports of increases in the number of households seeking "emergency food" at emergency feeding programs, food pantries and soup kitchens.
In a recent national survey of emergency feeding programs (Hunger in America 2001), America's Second Harvest found that their food bank network of emergency food providers served 23 million people in a year (9 percent more than were served in 1997), and over 9 million of those served were children. Nearly two-thirds of adult emergency food recipients were women, and more than one in five were elderly. Among all America's Second Harvest emergency food recipients, 71 percent were food insecure. This percentage increased to 76 percent among households with children. Not surprisingly, many reported having to make choices between paying for food and paying for other necessities, such as utilities, housing, or medical care. Yet, only 30 percent of emergency food recipients participated in the Food Stamp Program, although almost three-fourths were income-eligible. Of those emergency food clients not enrolled in the Food Stamp Program, 31.5 percent believed that they were not income eligible, yet one in five actually were. Of those who had not applied, 37 percent believed they were not eligible, 34 percent found the program too difficult to apply for, and 7 percent didn't apply because of the stigma they felt would be associated with program participation.
The U.S. Conference of Mayors collects data each year on requests for emergency assistance in some of the nation's major cities. During the period from November 1999 to November 2000, requests for emergency food assistance increased by an average of 17 percent. Across surveyed cities, 62 percent of those requesting emergency assistance were either children or their parents. The average increase in the number of families with children requesting emergency food was 16 percent. Requests by the elderly increased by nine percent.
What Are the Implications of High Hunger Rates?
The ability to obtain enough food for an active, healthy life is the most basic of human needs. Food insecure households cannot achieve this fundamental element of well-being. They are the ones in our country must likely to be hungry, undernourished, and in poor health, and the ones most in need of assistance. A high number of food insecure households in a nation with our economic plenty means that the fruits of our economy, and the benefits of public and private programs for needy people, are not yet reaching millions of low-income people who are at great risk.
posted on February 19, 2002 11:29:21 AM newYet, only 30 percent of emergency food recipients participated in the Food Stamp Program, although almost three-fourths were income-eligible
The food stamp program just turns people away as if you are trying to steal from them.
those at greatest risk of being hungry or on the edge of hunger (i.e., food insecure) live in households that are: headed by a single woman; Hispanic or Black; or with incomes below the poverty line
This description also skips our family. With our income we should not have any financial stress at all. But by the time all the taxes, utilities, & housing are paid, not much is left for food. Some times we avoid medical care because even the little copay can be a roadblock.
I believe our situation isn't unique but applies to many families. 2-parent homes automatically have a strike against them for receiving aid. If we divorced right now, I could qualify for most aid and still keep a job.
I believe the reason so many families aren't getting food stamps, etc., is because they are turned away. I haven't been to a soup kitchen yet and pray to God I never do, however, what would many people do without them?
I read a quote from Salvation Army soup kitchen. It said that a large number of people that come to eat are 2-parent families from nice homes with nice kids. They can't get any help and are too embarrassed to let friends or bosses know they are in trouble.
Sorry this was so long. The programs in place would rather throw food away than take any risk on giving some to the wrong people.
posted on February 19, 2002 11:53:52 AM new
A little change of subject....
A rural town not too far from us was losing their main source of revenue from their 1 big business shutting down.
The gov't stepped in and forced the company to retrain and/or find jobs for all employees who desired it.
Wouldn't it be nice if instead of spending billions of dollars to pat the big corporations on the head when they shut down, those monies were spent on the employees who have no contracts to tide them over financially for the next 6 years like the execs?
Ok, what if when these same employees are placed in new companies, they can take their retirement with them? What if they waive the 3-month waiting period for their medical to kick in?
Transferrable benefits may encourage companies to keep loyal, long-term employees. There would be less incentive to cut older employees if they had to pay into the new guy's retirement, too. EX: If they replace a 63 yo with a 50 yo, they won't be allowed to rewind his "clock" back to zero as if he was 18 years old with no experience,no pay history, no vestment.
Wouldn't that be a better way for the gov't to spend our tax dollars? on the tax PAYER? Why should they be forced to lose a lifetime accumulation of benefits? The company left THEM, right? The long-term employees already proved their merit and loyalty as hard-working, tax paying Americans. We should reward the company instead?
posted on February 19, 2002 02:17:31 PM new
Thanks Always broke, your right. I wish El Republicano would develop a clue but I don't see it happening. Its like the Reprehensible party is for the rich and the mexicans and the dispicable party is for preverts and any other special interest group but the White majority. and while I am at it both of them appoint tokens while slahshing social programs mean to help the poor. Clinton belongs in jail and the whole country knows it. Now we are hearing about a taliban oil Bush connection. Sickening just sickening.
Does anyone have a copy of a book called ''Living Poor With style''
posted on February 19, 2002 03:39:27 PM new
Auroranorth
You can find a copy...if you need it...LOL
at Amazon. It sounds interesting.
LIVING POOR WITH STYLE by Ernest Callenbach. Bantam mass market paperback edition 1972, 600 pgs. Front cover shows creasing and significant shelf wear, but the book itelf is in good, solid condition. From the author of the controversial, alternative-future ECOTOPIA, comes this practical, real world survival guide for those wanting to live outside the system. Chapter titles include: Getting Free, Handling Money, Eating, Getting Around, Dwelling, Furnishing & Equipping, Clothing, Learning How, Getting Money, Staying Fit, Raising Children, Fun & Games, Dealing with the Law, Avoiding the Draft, Taking Politics Seriously, and Dying.
posted on February 19, 2002 05:10:58 PM new
I know that there are dozens of people reading this looking for help, I can tell you nothing about get rich quick schemes but, here are a few ideas. in rural areas usually beginning in early fall there are a lot of places especially in the north that hire temps to wind xmas wreaths. these places also usually buy brush, (certain size and species of evergreen branches,) some times you can get lucky in rural areas by stopping at a home where there is a crumbling barn or other building, most owners will make a deal with you where if you tear it down they will either give away top dollar scrap wood or at least split it with you and if they want to much screw em and go to the next place remember 80 20 eighty percent treat you right 20 percent cause all the problems. got farms in the area stop and ask if they pay rock pickers or for that matter crop pickers, I saw a bumper sticker that said If It Knew It was going to cause all these problems I would have picked my own damm cotton, cracked me up. any how here some more tips, there is an excellent magazine in withee wisconsin called countryside (715ac) where a person can find lots of ideas for extra cash all the way to total country living , you could go fishing, or crabbing or hunting or trapping or just hit the rural food processors get several friends to gether and stop off at a small company that cans they will be more than happy to sell to you, use the flourescent bulbs if you cant afford them ask sometimes some utilities have coupons or rebates for them, join the share program self help and resource exchange, can you draw many screenprinters can do excellent printing but, could not draw a straw, (sorry about that one could not resist) I bet your local stream has not been panned for gold for a hundred years, why not give it a try ? find a library book and idnetify the valuable minerals in your area sometimes they are just laying around waiting to be picked up and sold, (lots of things are protected so know the law,) try adding wild plants to your diet gooseberrypie is right up there, ask your dnr whats edible and whats not, generally I know there a lot of things a big city type can do, but I know lots for those who want to escape, rural homes are cheaper, but we have less night life, some rural areas are overrun with religious nuts, but generally find someone who is doing well there without punching a clock and ask them.
posted on February 19, 2002 06:37:08 PM newDoes anyone have a copy of a book called ''Living Poor With style''
No, but I could write one! We've really learned creative ways to still be presentable to society. LOL
eX: I strip old clothes of expensive lace and other notions. I reuse them on high quality used clothing that I buy for our family at a discount. No one can tell they've been repaired or are previously worn. It looks like we shop at Kaufman's, Penney's, the Gap, and New York. Add "selling stuff on Ebay" to that book, too.
That's not a real book, is it? I thought you were kidding.
)
is widely respected and will serve as the basis for evaluating our nation's progress in reducing food insecurity -- one of the Surgeon General's health objectives for the nation for the year 2010.
