posted on July 7, 2002 11:09:40 PM new
Wow I just saw an incredible home video on the 11:00 o'clock news. The clip shows a group of (white) police restraining a (black) suspect, already in handcuffs, over the top of a patrol car. While several cops hold the suspect, one cop slams the suspect's head into the top of the patrol car. Then, a few seconds later, the same cop punches the restrained suspect in the jaw. Not a love tap, either.
Shocking stuff, and the cops surely would get away with it without the videotape as proof. Interesting to see what happens next.
posted on July 8, 2002 12:42:10 AM new
What will happen is very predictable. There will be protests and demonstrations at that officer's station. Those, and the tape, will be aired constantly over the next week or so. The officer in question will be fired or suspended. The victim & his family will take the matter to court & sue the city's police department.
This is what always happens in these cases.
You'd think Neanderthals like this one would finally get the message that video cameras are *everywhere* now and stop pulling crap like this. Limited brain capacity, I guess.
posted on July 8, 2002 02:25:23 PM new
And whats worse is, bystanders cant go to the victims aid because its POLICE officers who think they are God because they wear a badge. It never ceases to amaze me at the brutality of some "officers" (and I use that word sarcastically) who are like you said Bunni...neanderthals who have no brains to realize they CANT DO THAT without being busted but do it anyway. Why? See my God statement..thats why. He just slapped the decent cops in the face and ruined what those same decent officers struggle with everyday..to earn the trust of those they "service" as our "protectors".
I hope that cop gets fired, sued and tossed in jail for attempted murder because he could have easily killed that kid. Jerk. I also hope he gets tossed in a cell of a few that he bullied and DIDNT get caught doing. Im sure they will welcome him.
posted on July 8, 2002 05:57:49 PM new
I would like to know more about it before I pass judgement on anyone.I'd like to know all the facts. If this is jsut some innocent kid then I would be pissed if it is as it looks.
posted on July 8, 2002 06:51:03 PM new
Doesn't matter if he is a gangbanger or Ivan the Terrible. It is not the place of the cops once they have someone unresisting in cuffs to beat the snot out of them. If that is what you want it is called mob justice. The uniform means nothing when you act like that.
He was stopped with his father at the gas station. What they were supposed to have done I have yet to hear.
posted on July 8, 2002 07:04:15 PM new
From what I could see, the kids was stiff..possibly thinking if he didnt struggle, they wouldnt hurt him. Wrong. There was NO REASON for that PIG to slam his face in the hood, hang him like a hunk of meat with a chain around his neck and arms/legs cuffs and SLAM him like that then punch him in the face while hes dazed from being slammed. Doesnt matter what or who he is...that pig had NO RIGHT to do it.
posted on July 8, 2002 08:19:08 PM newAuroranorth: doesn't matter one iota what the kid had done or who he is. The role of the police IS NOT to dispense justice--that is for the courts.
posted on July 8, 2002 08:19:38 PM new
The apparently "isolated" incident is bad enough, but what is really upsetting to me is the degree to which the cops will lie each other up. Apparently they're going with the "suspect attacked the officer" defense. Riiight.
One can only wonder how often this happens and it's the word of one black man against a half dozen white police officers. Law enforcement is totally corrupt, and Englewood would be denying the incident if the facts weren't so plain.
The cops, the whole lot of them on tape, should be locked up, and the city/police department should pay for what they've allowed to happen.
posted on July 8, 2002 08:49:07 PM new
Have you seen the tape, Steve? I have, and if you have also, then you will have seen the other officers restraining the one officer who punched the boy, preventing him from striking him again. There is one officer involved. He has been suspended WITHOUT pay. He'll lose his job, and rightly so. But it was by no means of group of officers beating up one kid. Apparently there was an altercation, the officer was punched or bitten, and from watching the video, this officer "lost it" and went after the kid. He will lose his job, and of course he should.
posted on July 8, 2002 09:14:08 PM new
I can't believe how naive people are. Cops have been administering "street justice" for over a century.
If you think what you saw on that video is bad, you should see what the cops do to people when they get them into elevators and "hidden places" in the precints houses.
Cops have way too much power. From beating suspects to raping them with a broom stick to just shooting them is where the "profession" is at.
Not every cop is bad, but I think the evidence is amply clear that the system is bad, rotten to the core.
Has anyone else noticed how all of our valued and essential institutions are falling to illegal and immoral acts ? The political system, the justice system, the economic system, the churches, what's next ?
posted on July 8, 2002 09:35:14 PM new
I disagree, Reamond. Pretty broad brush you're painting with. But typical of the stereotypical bs everyone is fond of spouting.
posted on July 8, 2002 09:39:01 PM new
oh, we know what has gone in those back corners, Reamond. Which is why video cameras are good things to have around.
And it's not that the system is bad, actually. It is the people in the uniforms. Fortunately, such brutish personalities are finding it harder and harder to get away with this kind of behavior.
posted on July 8, 2002 10:14:26 PM new
I agree with REAMOND things are getting so bad there is the potential for a real ugly backlash. Conditions are ripe for secret societies and vigilantes to start redressing percieved injustices. People who have their retirement gone and watch the thieves walk away with millions under the protection of law see no value in such law.
posted on July 8, 2002 10:45:34 PM new
KatyD, that's not what I saw. I saw a bunch of cops restraining the guy, and the one cop just couldn't get in close enough to take another shot after that first punch to the head. If you look at the tape, you can see his fist raised to punch a second time, and no one was restraining him. He just couldn't get close enough because at that point he was standing behind the group.
I didn't say all the cops attacked one guy. But remember this happened on a public street in broad daylight. A point I am trying to make is that not one cop went back to the station and filed a report that said, "Officer X slammed suspect's head into the hood of the car, then punched suspect in the jaw."
Take the case of a group of men who rob a store. One man kills the proprietor. Then ALL the robbers are charged with murder. How is this case ANY DIFFERENT? The cop will lose his job? Why, I should certainly hope so. How can you minimize this incident? How can you refer to public outrage as stereotypical bs?
The cops won't police their own. It's up to citizens to oversee police action. Internal investigations won't do it. Last year in San Jose hardly a week went by without some "suspect" getting shot by police. Enough already.
posted on July 8, 2002 11:02:11 PM new
KatyD- If my brush is so broad, why didn't any of the officers on the video arrest the officer that threw the kid on the car and then sucker punched him in the jaw all while he was hand cuffed? Why didn't his colleagues arrest and hand cuff that officer ? The TRUTH is that unless someone films it or another officer is given a deal to testify against the criminal cops, NOTHING happens to them. I don't care what the kid said or did prior to being arrested and hand cuffed, there is no reason to use such force on a person hand cuffed and surrounded by cops.
That tells me that the system is rotten when the "good" cops remain silent and still while these things happen. However, I can not call them "good" cops when they stand by while these criminal acts are committed by their colleagues and they do nothing. The cop that threw the teenager and then hit him while he was hand cuffed should have been arrested right on the spot by the other cops. But as we all know, that is not how cops operate.
Why should a poor or black, hispanic, or other police brutality target EVER peacefully submit to an arrest when the police system will not guarantee their safety from this type of uncalled for brutality?
If you ever wonder why a black or hispanic suspect senselessly shoots a cop or flees in a high speed chase rather than be arrested for a far lesser offense, that video is in large part the reason why. People should feel that submitting to an arrest will result in their humane capture and respect for their rights as a human being, without being judged and beaten by the police force, whether anyone is there to witness it or not.
Edited to add: I have given up on this bad apple scenario. It is used all too often as an excuse, all the while the same problems keep happening again and again. It is a systemic problem of institutional elements and blaming it only on the individual actors is not addressing the institutional problems which are causing these incidents.
[ edited by REAMOND on Jul 8, 2002 11:23 PM ]
posted on July 8, 2002 11:23:47 PM new
Steve, watch the tape again. What you'll see is another officer grabbing the rogue officer and pushing his fist away as he prepared to strike the boy again. THAT is what you'll see. I can't help what you WANT to see. The other officers WERE restraining the officer that pushed the boy's head into the car.
Reamond, the incident only happened on Saturday evening. This is Monday. Just how WOULD you know what was reported to the supervisor, and what wasn't. You wouldn't would you? Oh, you'd like to think you know how these things work, but the truth is, you have no experience nor personal knowledge. Ever been a cop? Know any personally? I thought not.
But as we all know, that is not how cops operate.
Obviously, you don't. You don't know the first thing about law enforcement. Are there bad apples? You betcha, just like ANY profession. It doesn't mean that all cops are rotten to the core.
If I seem to take your hateful stereotypical insults personally, it's because they are hurtful, hateful, and ungrateful. And I sure as HELL hope that if you are ever in trouble in MY town, that it's not MY husband who has to save your sorry ungrateful ass.
posted on July 8, 2002 11:28:33 PM new
KatyD, the first thing I noticed on that tape when I saw it was the other officers maneuvering in front of the officer that punched the kid so that he did not have access anymore. They were keeping him away. Not so much physically restraining him but certainly keeping him away.That officer should be fired, the others were doing their job from what I saw.
posted on July 8, 2002 11:57:12 PM new
My second cousin is a Sheriff, my brother-in-law is a deputy, my next door neighbor is SHP and State SWAT. What most people don't know that goes on in police forces is far worse than the videos we've been privy to see.
But I can rely on my own experiences as a white male with minimal contact with the police to know how they operate. I was punched in the stomach after being pulled over for not telling the local policeman who my dad was. I was 20 years old at the time and my "dad" had nothing to do with my being pulled over- the car was in my name too. A SHP cop was at the scene too and did nothing. I wasn't even ticketed or arrested - because I didn't break the law. Do you think if I had filed charges that the SHP that witnessed the punch would have testified aginst the local officer ?
A good friend of mine was arrested at Spring Break 20 years ago for having a controlled substance - a joint in his shirt pocket. An undercover beach cop arrested him without incident. Everything was fine until 2 cops got him into the elevator after booking- they beat the crap out of him and pulled a large hunk of hair out. They were administering cop street justice- don't come to our town with a joint in your pocket- we don't care what the judge says your fine is, we're cop, judge and jury while you're in our custody.
They need to start arresting these cops- the ones that watch and the ones that brutalize, and put them into the same prisons as the people they arrest.
Ungrateful?? Because society demands that someone does the job they're paid to do, and do it without abusing their power and brutalizing a teenager in hand cuffs that is half the size of the smallet cop there? If your husband or any other cop operates under the assumption that their actions can not be questioned, critised or modified or they will not perform their jobs in a professional manner, points exactly to the problematic institutional thinking that plagues our police forces. Basically what you are saying is that unless the police can beat people without recourse, critisism or corrective actions, or their own arrest, the police are justified in not providing their public safety function to the best of their abilities. Very professional attitude.
We'll see how "grateful" and understanding you are when one of your children or loved ones finds themselves at the hands of a cop that wants to administer justice on the spot. You'll sing a far different tune.
posted on July 9, 2002 03:35:17 AM new
And the stupid thing is that you would think that they would know that there ARE consequences. I moved away from the little town of Milan because of corrupt police pulling this sort of thing. A few years later there was a local man that supposedly had no criminal history sitting in a car with his deer rifle and when two particular officers came out that he was waiting for he shot them both dead in front of the police station and didn't try to flee - just sat there waiting to be arrested. Did not surprise me at all. Do you really think that is a normal action? It was a big message to the rest of the force. You can do anything you want but there will be a payback.
posted on July 9, 2002 08:15:26 AM new
I watched the tape again closely and saw where the other cops were all spreadeagled over the victim, one with his hands around his neck. Whether it was to "restrain" him (I thought he already was...I dont think the dude can go anywhere with 3 cops hanging on to him and him smashed against the hood after being slammed against it) and that one PIG punching him..then trying to do it AGAIN but he couldnt get at him. THe one officer on the left of the picture kept his arm in the way to keep that from happening and if you will look at his face, you will see he is NOT a happy camper. Who is to say what would happen to HIM if he did choose to do something about his fellow officers actions? Maybe not find his partner there in a dangerous situation? Maybe find himself set up? Maybe find himself oustted and targeted because he "went against his own"? Whatever the case may be, I think that ONE officer did his best AT THE TIME to restrain the other one from doing further damager. None of us will know until an investigation is done. However, I DO think there is way too much "covering up" by police departments and they know WAY too much about SOME of their officers and dont do a damn thing UNLESS they get caught. The abuser is fired, WITH PAY for now. I hope he spends some time in jail for assault and attempted murder...just like any civilian would get if they tied up another individual and beat the crap out of him. Problem is, the uniform they wear makes them THINK they CAN. Time they learned that that CANT.
posted on July 9, 2002 08:59:17 AM new
I have said repeatedly that the fox is guarding the hen house,
Have any of you ever tried to remove A Bad Cop ? I have, the rest of the bunch does come after you with everything they have.
As far as what I said about gang mambers to me they cease to be guman once they put on gang colors.I have been a pallbearer one to many times to have anything resembling mercy for them.
posted on July 9, 2002 09:00:31 AM new"And I sure as HELL hope that if you are ever in trouble in MY town, that it's not MY husband who has to save your sorry ungrateful ass".
How sick is that? Do you mean that your husband might save me from the rest of the police if I were in trouble in YOUR town? How nice to know that there's one gallant on a white charger who will fight for what's right even against his own brotherhood of police. What bull.
posted on July 9, 2002 09:04:42 AM new
This is what happens when those who are hired to protect us are paid less than the janitors that work in their building.
Americans will spend thousands of dollars per year just to be entertained by overpaid primadonnas(sp?), yet whenever the police ask for a raise the taxpayers refuse to pony up an extra dime for them. So now you are being protected by extremely frustrated, under motivated and angry people whom nobody has any respect for even when they do their job well and professionally.
Yes, all cops are bad, according to the videotape shown on TV. What the police were doing was wrong, absolutely wrong. But where is the videotape that shows them risking, even losing their lives to save somebody? Those tapes do exist, except unless it is a particularly gory and horrible death, it is not news. People treat it as if that is their job, a job that only pays slave wages....wait a minute, less than slave wages, at least slaves were given as a minimum, food, clothing and shelter.
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Reality is a serious condition brought on by a lack of alcohol in the system
posted on July 9, 2002 09:12:24 AM new
I agree with KatyD that IMO the other police officers were trying to keep the alleged offending police officer from assaulting the criminal.
IMO:
I viewed the tape as well. I don't know about the rest of you, but the tape I watched was only when they were apprehending the young man, against the squad car. So I can't be completely "fair" in my judgement, cause I need to know his behavior leading up to that incident.
Was he endangering public's and the officers' safety. Was there a possibility that he had a weapon of some sort? Even a tiny weapon hidden, can cause damage to the officers and bystanders. Also, even the smallest person (male and female) can require 5 or more husky police officers to apprehend them, because of drugs and natural adreline.
As for holding his head, hepburn101, I didn't see it, but if they were, then what would you do if criminals have been known to assault officers by biting? The officers don't want to worry about being infected or actually being infected and carrying it back to their families.
The officers and the public couldn't afford to have the criminal slip away and run, ending up in a local house, endangering the family's lives. So to have several officers holding him is typical and understandable.
From only what I saw, minus the alleged offending officer, the others were doing what a "reasonable" person would do.
I realize some do excessive force when it is not neccessary, as well as a few other things which is why the public should be able to scrutinize what the police force does or doesn't do. Sure when police officers do step over the line, which they do occassionally, then they need to be disciplined.
The officers keeping the alleged offending officer from abusing the criminal, were protecting the young man as well as trying to safely apprehend him. Those heroes didn't use excessive and unreasonable force.
I don't know where you are, but police are hardly underpaid servants in northern california cities. We had this as a subject a while back and it was found that police pay, while varying across regions was not considered to be low and in many areas is actually pretty high.
BTW I am aware of "police brutality" (from the 60s ) situations. If I haven't heard it, I have seen it or experienced it myself, but I am proud of my local law enforcement.
kayD a BIG THANK YOU goes out to your husband and his fellow officers who protect and serve and to you and the other spouses, also. Keep it up!
posted on July 9, 2002 09:36:21 AM new
The local officers in my small town of Rochester are terrific and I have never seen them act with other than courtesy. However I try to avoid driving through Detroit and the towns of Southfield and Dearborn are not much better.
As with other organizations I think that once you get past a critical size it is very hard to control what happens to any degree.Smaller forces have the ability to be very good or very bad depending on the people at the top.
High compared to what? The job they do or the fact that they make a little more than the local McDonald's Hamburger Cook? Remember, corporate American think the minimum wage is way to high.
Most people think that the Police are paid well enough, they just wouldn't want to do that job for as little as the pay is...
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Reality is a serious condition brought on by a lack of alcohol in the system
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) situations. If I haven't heard it, I have seen it or experienced it myself, but I am proud of my local law enforcement.