posted on July 9, 2002 11:44:36 AM new
For one thing, Lawrence Welk is one fine example of not acquiring a high school diploma. I think he dropped out at 4th grade?
Sometimes people have valid reasons not finishing school.
It takes more than a formal education to be a police officer. Sometimes piece of paper isn't always worth a plug nickel.
It does help for a police officer to further his/her formal education to help them do their job better and for promotion, but there has been many formal educated officers who were crooked as they come while the ones with a lower formal education are the most honest and well deserving as they come!
posted on July 9, 2002 11:44:56 AM new
Reamond - I was referring to a car accident and how witnesses will all 'see' what happened a different way.
[Who was at fault, who did what to whom] I'm not referring to seeing this one officer abusing this boy. I think pretty much anyone here 'saw' the same thing. What I referred to was 'seeing' the action or inactions of the other police officers and making judgements about police officers as a whole.
krs - Don't even try to suggest that this is about race. What we experienced that night wouldn't have changed how we felt, whether it was white, black or purple people doing it. The feeling that one might need to call on the police for protection while trying to by gasoline shouldn't be happening in any city. That city is out of control and like I said...the police officers can't possibly be paid enough to put their life on the line each and every day/night.
posted on July 9, 2002 11:45:20 AM new
[i]On the 4th of July, we had a police officer brutally murdered here.Did you hear about it?[i]
Whether we heard about it is irrelevant to the situation. How "tough" one's job is does not mitigate commiting a brutal crime on a helpless hand cuffed 16 year old suspect, nor witnessing that crime and not arresting the suspect fellow officer.
There is a laundry list of occupations that are dangerous, unappreciated, and stressful. This does not give one a free pass to assault someone that is hand cuffed and in custody, nor to watch it being done and not arresting and disarming the officer that did it at the scene.
Until it is affirmed that police are not above the law, and that the law will be applied and enforced just as it is among the rest of us, these brutal acts will continue, and they will be witnessed by officers that refuse to report or immediately act on what they witness.
If a police officer had witnessed a civilian doing that to a 16 year old, they would have hand cuffed and arrested that individual on the spot. They would not ask what that individuals job was, how dangerous it was, how many fellow workers had been killed and not reported in the newspapers.
What we saw was a crime, committed and witnessed by those who are supposed to prevent and stop such crimes.
posted on July 9, 2002 11:46:05 AM new
No, I dont think the other cops held him down to be sucker punched. I clearly saw the one officer on the left hold his arm up to STOP the one from punching him again. THe other officers were holding him down, yes. I think there was mass confusion at that time, with all of them trying to subdue. THe problem is, the ONE cop lost control and slammed the kid and then hit him. It was wrong, and now he can pay for it. Period.
posted on July 9, 2002 11:46:31 AM new
No. He WASN'T hogtied, Maui. Nobody here is contesting that he wasn't abused. I suppose if he was one of those "mexicans" that are "ruining the neighborhood" you would not be so OUTRAGED. LoL!
posted on July 9, 2002 11:47:12 AM new
Errr.........Helen, it doesn't sound as though you got that from any pig wrastling site. A home instruction manual maybe?
posted on July 9, 2002 11:51:05 AM new
Race does not play a factor with me. There has been times that I have seen a black officer with a white criminal and had the same attitude.
posted on July 9, 2002 11:52:33 AM new
No. He WASN'T hogtied, Maui. Nobody here is contesting that he wasn't abused. I suppose if he was one of those "mexicans" that are "ruining the neighborhood" you would not be so OUTRAGED. LoL!
Sure looks like you are arguing that he wasnt abused. And your reference to mexicans and ruining the neighborhood must be from your own stance, not mine.
posted on July 9, 2002 11:54:09 AM new
One of the officers was black if that has anything to do with anything. The officer that punched the kid had a fairly large cut above one ear that was dripping blood. I wonder what happened before the video tape was started? Not that that would excuse the behavior of the officer...it doesn't but there is always more to the story no matter how clear cut these videos make it seem.
posted on July 9, 2002 11:54:46 AM new"That city is out of control"
lindak, How long ago was that? I don't think that you can speak with any authority about life or times in Oakland, Ca for police or anyone else.
Do you know where Alameda is? That's where I am, and I could be in downtown Oakland in less than ten minutes even though I don't have my shoes on right now. My wife worked there, I went to the doctors there, and we both spend a lot of time there because it's a good town. I'm going to miss Oakland more than this whacked out little town once we finish moving.
I guess an Police Officer's life is just irrelevant to you...and to a great majority of the populace. That's the point...people who are treated like that tend to lash out irrationally at times, had you read the rest...
But all you noted is that police officers' lives are irrevelant.
Read: If you beat a dog every day, it is going to bite you, whether its right or wrong.
.
Reality is a serious condition brought on by a lack of alcohol in the system
[ edited by mlecher on Jul 9, 2002 12:00 PM ]
posted on July 9, 2002 12:01:30 PM new
Speaking of Oakland, your chart shows one range, but a contained link shows another higher range. Not 3000 applicants? Gee, only 875? Still a lot of people who by their application would be happy to have these oh so lowly salaries - or do you think that there's a percentage of them who are twisted authoritarian perverts only hoping to be able to join the fray?
posted on July 9, 2002 12:07:55 PM new
I've even had the same opinion when it was white officer and a white criminal and when it was a black officer with a black criminal. All I see is an officer and a criminal.
Do you want to hear my opinion about the female officers and female criminals, too?
posted on July 9, 2002 12:09:45 PM newdo you think that there's a percentage of them who are twisted authoritarian perverts only hoping to be able to join the fray
Usually the psyche exam and the background investigation will weed them out. You of all people should know about that. LOL!
posted on July 9, 2002 12:12:40 PM newlindak, How long ago was that? I don't think that you can speak with any authority about life or times in Oakland, Ca for police or anyone else.
We moved here three years ago. Until then we lived in San Jose for 22 years. Have friends who live all over the area. And let's get something straight, between you and I, I can speak to any issue I wish to without you asking me on what authority. I'm sharing my personal experiences here, and also my opinion. Who are you to tell me what I've experienced? Not your place. bug off.
Do you know where Alameda is? That's where I am...oh really?....well let's see...you've professed to living in Santa Cruz....not living in CA at all when someone asked you....so why should I believe what you say about where you live now? It doesn't really matter to me where you live. I don't care.
My point is that Oakland is becoming [and has been] just like many blighted areas. And when one doesn't feel safe when there....then one doesn't feel safe. Gardena, Hawthorne, Pacoima, Chino, Pomona, Compton, Crenshaw, Carson, are just a few of the many areas in CA that are being overrun with violence.
We've lived in CA most all our lives...we're very familiar with which areas are more crime ridden that other. So don't tell me what I know or don't know. End of discussion.
posted on July 9, 2002 12:14:00 PM new
No, I'm not arguing that the kid wasn't abused, Maui. Along with visual acuity you seem to have a problem with comprehension.
And your reference to mexicans and ruining the neighborhood must be from your own stance, not mine.
Oh. I was just referring to your constant postings elsewhere about "mexicans" and "hispanics" ruining neighborhoods and getting "preferential" treatment over "whites". I just thought you wouldn't be so outraged if this particular kid was one of "those". LoL!
posted on July 9, 2002 12:19:06 PM newI guess an Police Officer's life is just irrelevant to you...and to a great majority of the populace. That's the point...people who are treated like that tend to lash out irrationally at times, had you read the rest
No, I said that the death of a police officer is irrelevant to and no excuse for overlooking police brutality.
What you are advocating is a free pass to commit a criminal act because you have a tough, dangerous, and stressful job.
The obituaries across the US are filled with great and wonderful people who have died each day, some were murdered, some died prematurely from disease, some died as a result of an accident at work.
To say that because people are killed in your line of work is an excuse to brutalize people, is non-sense.
posted on July 9, 2002 12:22:21 PM newAnd let's get something straight, between you and I, I can speak to any issue I wish to without you asking me on what authority
LOL! LINDA! Don't you know that the word straight does not compute for a drug addled thought process? There is no point of reference.
I own a house in Felton, CA, which is Santa Cruz county, and lived in it for twenty years until meeting Chris. She worked in a place that was too far for me to reasonably ask her to commute, 160 miles round trip, so we moved here. I've been here for six now. But your stating "That city IS out of control" is beyond your ability to know from three years away, particularly if you derive all that you need to condemn the place from a single episode.
posted on July 9, 2002 12:38:57 PM new
Thanks for a well thought out post Clarksville.
Years back I remember the cops using night sticks on the strikers at OMC Evinrude
(WE DID AWAY WITH WORKERS)
I have seem bad cops threaten and abuse their power.
I also Know they are the Minority, They are not representative of all cops.
I worked on cases where the Sherrif was removed.
I have been crimminally charged with striking an officer.
I Have seen the dishonesty rampant in the Michigan state police.
I have seen the honor and integrity of cops In Milwaukee.
I have seen a white female apx 30 years of age Cute Little Redhead on some type of stimulant take 5 grown men and throw then all over the place.
I have seen a rape suspect locally here take 9 officers to bring him to where they could cuff him. and if it had been only 2 officers I am sure the perp would have killed them both, they did find his home wired with explosives and with cynide traps and a shotgun that had been used to kill a NY cop.
You guys have no idea of what it takes to stop an experienced street fighter.We go into a rage. I was fighting during the Vietnam war once with protestors here in the USa I had sent 3 down in rapid succession and I was then grabbed from behind that cop who was trying to intervene.
He never knew what hit him
he was down in 1 second flat.
When I realized it was a copper I did try to pick him up and carry him to safety but the other coppers were really pissed. I surrenedered and they acted professional.
The copper told the truth in court and I walked.
My point is is that a crimminal or hardened fighter goes into a kind of rage, where verything seems slow motion
posted on July 9, 2002 12:42:36 PM newAhhhh KatyD....is it time for me to go to bed?
Only if you've been awake all night without wearing your tin foil beanie.
posted on July 9, 2002 12:51:35 PM new
I challenge you, REAMOND, to find where I said police brutality was right, or gave excuses for it. It is wrong, will always be wrong, but so is robbery, murder and all other crimes, but it happens. The best I said of it is that it is an irrational reaction to the general treatment of police officers. And it should be punished. But, don't be so appalled when you hold someone to a higher standard than yourself, and then treat them worse than your dog, that something irrational is not going to happen in a time of stress.
The solution to the problem of police brutality lies with us, the people. Approve better training, demand stricter guidelines, etc...
Oh, and I am not a police officer, nor do I work in the system at all. I just have known a few from my time. I can see the problem, it is us.
.
Reality is a serious condition brought on by a lack of alcohol in the system
[ edited by mlecher on Jul 9, 2002 12:57 PM ]
posted on July 9, 2002 12:52:08 PM newauroranorth: No one is disuputing that. BUT there is a real difference in having to use force to subdue an out-of-control and dangerous person and beating the crap out of someone who either isn't resisting or who is already under restraint.
I have had dealing with the police in which they acted professionally and others in which they acted like animals. Hell, my cousin's ex-husband is a cop I hope no one ever has to meet he's so violent and prejudiced. So I don't try to tar every police officer with the same brunch because of a few bad apples. But I also don't ignore the code of silence that operates in the system, where it just isn't done to rat on a fellow officer.
BTW, to whoever said that $50-60,000 is barely a living wage in California...HOGWASH. Most can and do live quite well on much less. And I live incredibly comfortably on the $49,000 I make now (top wages for Children's Librarian...administrators make more, but no desire for that).
[ edited by bunnicula on Jul 9, 2002 12:54 PM ]
posted on July 9, 2002 12:52:52 PM new
Oh yes...those tin foil beannies. Didn't used to think they were needed here, but I'm beginning to believe they're a required item now.
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[ edited by mlecher on Jul 9, 2002 12:00 PM ]