posted on November 24, 2002 12:59:27 PM new
Helenjw...
School systems haven't got the money to help these children. PARENTS refuse to spend an extra DIME to help educate their children, but can't pass a lottery scatch-off counter without wasting a few bucks. Alot of teachers personnally spend their own money to help these children, and go without themselves.
And before you all jump in and say that lottery money goes toward education, IT IS A LIE. With the money the NYS lottery pulls in each week the cafeterias would be stocked with Champagne and Cavier, the water fountains would spray Perrier and every "B" level student would go to college free!
.................................................
We call them our heroes...but we pay them like chumps
posted on November 24, 2002 02:35:51 PM new
mlecher
Your mean spirited attitude toward poor parents scratching lottery tickets should be focused instead on the real cause of the problem and that is the Republican led Bush administration who make promises about leaving no child behind but instead proceed to mistreat them denying educational funds and health care.
When this country has to rely on the poor to pay for the educational system, we are in deep trouble. Bush has promoted the smallest education budget increase in the last 10 years. Schools are underfunded across the board. There is inadequate support for special education, teachers and school construction.
posted on November 24, 2002 03:31:01 PM new
"Republican led Bush administration who make promises about leaving no child behind but instead proceed to mistreat them denying educational funds and health care.
When this country has to rely on the poor to pay for the educational system, we are in deep trouble. Bush has promoted the smallest education budget increase in the last 10 years. Schools are underfunded across the board. There is inadequate support for special education, teachers and school construction."
The old beat a horse until its dead routine. It's the worst thing and has been proven not to work. Schools that receive more funding do worse than schools with less funding. That is a proven fact.
What do you really think more money will do? Buy more computers? Results of studies show no difference in education. Hire better teachers? No effect because Districts set the courses, teachers are bound to teach only what they're told. More books? No effect.
The schools with the best education system already have learned how to get by on less money. There's already summer schools, and we have special ed courses for slower students.
My solution, send struggling students to a summer school designed to teach motivation, self-confidence, and study skills. Have the parents pay for it, and if the student doesn't go, they don't pass to the next grade.
But thank god for the Republicans who are smart to realize the problem needs to be replaced, not fixed. None of this bandaid around a stab wound.
posted on November 24, 2002 03:56:17 PM new
an excerpt from Michael Moore's book, "Stupid White Men"....
"What kind of priority do we place on education in America? Oh, it's on the funding list-somewhere down between OSHA and meat inspectors. The person who cares for our child every day receives an average of $41,351 annually. A Congressman who cares only about which tobacco lobbyist is taking him to dinner tonight receives $145,100."
posted on November 24, 2002 04:37:28 PM new
Quickdraw,
"The old beat a horse until its dead routine. It's the worst thing and has been proven not to work. Schools that receive more funding do worse than schools with less funding. That is a proven fact."
Now, you are teasing me. Can you really prove that?
"What do you really think more money will do? Buy more computers? Results of studies show no difference in education. Hire better teachers? No effect because Districts set the courses, teachers are bound to teach only what they're told. More books? No effect."
Money will pay teachers a better salary and provide funds to hire more teachers, reducing class size. And of course, books and supplies are necessary! Where are you reading these "studies" that schools don't need to be funded?
"The schools with the best education system already have learned how to get by on less money. There's already summer schools, and we have special ed courses for slower students."
The quaility of education is reduced when schools try to get by on less money. They have to use unqualified teachers, a reduced number of teachers, dilapidated buildings, and lack of books and supplies. Summer schools and special education courses require funding also.
"My solution, send struggling students to a summer school designed to teach motivation, self-confidence, and study skills. Have the parents pay for it, and if the student doesn't go, they don't pass to the next grade".
That's a good idea. But some parents can't afford to pay for summer school. They should be able to have their tuition waived.
"But thank god for the Republicans who are smart to realize the problem needs to be replaced, not fixed. None of this bandaid around a stab wound."
Piss on the Republicans and the same treatment would be appropriate for many Democrats.
posted on November 24, 2002 04:45:22 PM new
God I hope so!
The more Republicans the better!
<< CAUTION - Hardcore Republican Typing >>
FIRST A DEFINITION:
HURRAH - also hoo·ray or hur·ray
Used as an exclamation of pleasure, approval, elation, or victory.
1. HURRAY GEORGE!!
2. STATISTICS - Statistics Are Useless - They are only useful if you are trying to make a point for YOUR benefit... period.
3. HURRAY GEORGE!!
4. EDUCATION - Problem is responsibility. Solution is responsibility. Until ALL people accept responsibility on their own merit the education problem will still exist.
Locally here in Aberdeen, Washington, a big issue is in debate on where to rebuild the local high school that had ONE building destroyed by fire. Through all of this of where to put it no one seems to question the AMOUNT of PUBLIC dollars it will cost to build this ONE building -- $46 MILLION DOLLARS!!!!!
This is NOT a huge building people... it is a small one... and surely doesn't cost that much to build even if the property must be purchased! Why the large price tag? My guess is because this state and this region of the state and most importantly this city is HEAVY with Democrats! - (i.e., no one accepting "responsibility" but wanting to dig deep in the constituent's pockets to once again and as usual provide for Democratic OVERSPENDING!).
Imagine the QUALITY of education to OUR children if a regular "modestly-priced" building is built and only a third of that amount is spent on TEACHING the child!! AND THE SAVINGS THAT WOULD BE MADE TO AN ECONOMICALLY DEPRESSED REGION!!
God Forbid to let a Democrat think that way!
5. HURRAY GEORGE!
6. CLINTON - 8 years of riding out what the Republicans spent years setting up... a Grand Economy. 8 years of destroying that Grand Economy by Democratic overspending, false claims by the Democrats that they were the reason the economy was so grand, 8 years of completely embarrassing the U.S.A. with his womanizing and "teaching my children that it is okay to lie, cheat and steal.... BULL%!@# - Clinton introduced the phrase of ORAL SEX to our children and we were the ones stuck with having to explain this to our small children prematurely. If he had only taken RESPONSIBILITY!! (Then again considering the witch he's married to... I can empathize with him in part. <grin>
7. HURRAY GEORGE!
8. MISPLACED PRIORITIES - "lack of responsibility" and more of a "it's all about me" mentality. Apply this to yourself, your boss, the CEOs that are just as corrupt as the politicians. You know their parents brought them up better than that. If not, it was due to a lack of responsibility. TAKE RESPONSIBILITY PEOPLE!
9. HURRAY GEORGE!
10. ADVERTISING LIES - We all know that TV and Movies have an effect on kids... if this weren't true there wouldn't be any ratings or "Parental Advisories". I'm tired of watching the marketing scum cross the line on "truth in advertising".
There are simply too many to list here but the market is flooded with lies - some blow this off as "creative marketing strategy", humor, artistic license, targeted exaggeration, or "stretching the truth". IT'S STILL A LIE!
EXAMPLES:
There is no way a dog food will allow your dog to tear up the sidewalk or fetch a tree.
That new car will NOT glow red hot no matter how fast you drive.
You will NEVER look as nice as the professional models by using a certain product!
NONE of the food in ANY food commercial is edible - it has been varnished, painted, dressed up and made to look great - but it's NOT what they sell!
A Quarter Pounder is no longer a Quarter Pounder - maybe a Quarter SIZE or Quarter Ouncer!
Would someone please shoot the caffeine overdosed idiot in the Question Mark suit??
Why are "drug czars" allowed to advertise nationally for drugs that no one can afford, no one is sure what they will do to you (all the disclaimers in the ad), and only your HMO doctor that you can only see once a year and only if you are healthy must prescribe?? This only applies to those that are EMPLOYED and are paying out the rear for medical insurance!! (Dem.. )
There are many more examples but I can't remember them all. I try to make it a point to change channels or leave the room when commercials come on - can't stand seeing or hearing anything that insults my intelligence.
11. HURRAY GEORGE!
12. MORAL MAJORITY - Well... they are as much over the line as the UNMORAL MAJORITY. Organized Religion to me equates to the ability of these people to brainwash congregations by twisting "the word of god" around enough to fill their collection plates in order to build larger and newer churches, temples or other places of worship, but to MAINLY better the lifestyles of those in charge! There are exceptions where some are truly teaching the true gospel but this is rare. Collection plates are passed to pay the electric bill, to pay the pastor's or priest's SALARY, to pay other employees of the "church", to pay for building renovations, to pay for exotic "missionary" trips or conventions. And finally a very small portion of your donated dollar MAY find its way to the needy... but ONLY a small amount in contrast to the BILLIONS donated each year. Don't tell me this is all for the good of the common man.
I was raised a Southern Baptist in a small rural town in Missouri. My grandfather was a deacon with his name on the church's cornerstone - but only after being ran out of the state of Tennessee for running illegal moonshine. I used to watch my father smoking his cigarettes on the church steps before and after church. Preacher once said that "Smoking won't send you to hell but it will make you smell like you've been there". I imagine that is true. Too many hypocrites in organized religion. My religion is one-on-one between me and God.
13. HURRAY GEORGE!
14. AN ARMY OF ONE - This one gets stuck in my craw.
The definition of the word ARMY is: A large body of people organized and trained for land warfare.
Key words here are "large body of people" - nowhere does it mention a single individual or ONE!
It's all about TEAMWORK - There is no "I" in the word TEAM. It takes more than one to make an army... no matter how bad you think you are.
15. HURRAY GEORGE!
16. FREEDOM OF RELIGION - Here's a hot topic. Face it... America was built on terms such as "In God We Trust" - God being whatever or whomever you feel is worthy of the supreme higher position - even if that is yourself. It's Freedom OF Religion people... not Freedom FROM Religion! Just because you feel a certain way about something doesn't mean everyone else should feel that way too. So what if the person next to you is praying? If it offends you that is YOUR problem... not everyone else's. Ever consider the fact that you NOT praying may be offensive to the other person? No difference here. Everything is a two-way street... EVERYTHING! I have listed my dislikes extensively in this posting but I'm also aware that some people LIKE the things I dislike. Why I don't know, but that's the beauty of individualism - that and the fact that each person is responsible for their own thoughts, actions and feelings... nobody else is responsible for that. It's up to you.
Whose name do atheists scream out at the moment of sexual climax anyway? <grin>
17. HURRAY GEORGE!
18. CHRISTMAS - Locally the high school choir is no longer allowed to sing traditional Christmas songs; they are now only allowed to sing "winter" songs. What bright idiot came up with this? Hmmm... let me see... for 200 plus years here in the United States of America we have collectively celebrated Christmas by singing traditional Christmas songs; songs that were traditional from various parts of the WORLD for more than 2000 years now!
So what's the big issue with this? No matter WHERE you immigrated from in the world the story of Christmas has been told, celebrated and heralded for a long, long time. Get Real... sing your heart out to the glory of Goodwill Towards Man and Peace on Earth (right after we finish bombing Iraq, ousting Saddam Hussein, and obliterating foreign and domestic terrorism!).
19. HURRAY GEORGE!
Which brings me to:
20. AN OVER-SENSITIVE NATION:
How many of you played "Cattle Herder and Native Americans" as children? None? Hmmm... Me either... We always played Cowboys and Indians.
What's in a term? It's only a word. Words can hurt no one. What can hurt is YOUR reaction to a word or phrase that creates or releases contempt from someone else. I don't mean to say that it is YOUR fault that some people are idiots and they have no respect for anyone else... that goes back to their upbringing or the lack thereof. And I don't mean you should sit back and say nothing... what I do mean that it is essential to understand the source of the degrading comments and/or whether or not they are degrading or not. In most cases they are because the person that is a bigot, a racist or some other loathsome creature as such is normally of shallow mind and incapable of intelligent thought and are probably not working with a full complement of tools in their toolbox. Goes back to parental responsibility.
Yes there are groups... but what makes a group? Individuals make a group even if they are just a collective group of morons. Like anything else, it all gets blown out of proportion and sooner or later someone gets hurt in the process.
This does make an individual put their guard up but why does it create a national trend of Over-sensitive people? If you don't like something, or don't believe in something, or something doesn't appeal to you... SO WHAT? It's OKAY! BUT, I DON'T HAVE TO FEEL THE SAME WAY ABOUT IT!! Individuals Remember? Individual Responsibility... not national fear of rebellion or retaliation just because I feel one way and you feel the other! Get Real! Suck in your lip so you don't step on it and get on with life... it's too short to dwell on the petty things.
21. HURRAY GEORGE!
22. HYPHENATED LAST NAMES - Well here is a person that is indecisive and can't be trusted to make a decision if their life depended on it. PICK ONE ALREADY and make a commitment!
23. HURRAY GEORGE!
24. CELL PHONE DRIVERS or "Idiots At The Wheel". All you are doing is creating a rolling traffic hazard, raising insurance rates and demonstrating to the world that you CANNOT walk and chew bubble gum at the same time. PULL OVER TO MAKE OR ANSWER YOUR PHONE CALL - and get the hell out of my way!
25. HURRAY GEORGE!
By this time you are either extremely pissed or laughing your butt off or maybe a little bit of both. Before you go off the deep end and respond remember this:
YOU ARE UNIQUE - JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE IS
The opinions expressed above are entirely mine and are posted here as humor and a satire regarding this thread as a whole (or hole - whichever). If I offended you please read the post again in its entirety from start to finish. If I did not offend you, my utmost apologies are hereby extended for leaving you out. Maybe someone else will take care of that and make you feel "better". <grin>
posted on November 24, 2002 04:58:53 PM new
Big difference between what a Congressman does and a teacher.
A teacher is responsible for a Classroom. A Congressman is responsible for a country.
A teacher repeats things from a texbook. A Congressman has to learn as he goes along, using vision and analytical skills.
As long as a teacher does what he is told, he won't get into trouble. A Congressman does what his majority voters want him to do, and he still gets yelled at by the millions for doing the wrong thing.
Teachers deal with little Jimmy chewing gum; Congressman deal with Lobbyists with millions of dollars.
Teachers are known in their community; Congressman are know through the country/world.
Teachers spend $1.00 on creating a resume and $100 on a new outfit to get hired; Congressman spend millions to get elected.
posted on November 24, 2002 05:12:24 PM new
Can you really prove that?"
Considering my source is the local newspaper you should be able to search it yourself on the internet. Why aren't you researching these things yourself?
Money will buy better salaries.
So what, like I said teachers repeat things from a textbook. A moderately intelligent person can do that, and teachers get paid for similar jobs of expertise. More teachers helps in overcrowded situations but it doesn't create efficiency so more time is spent teaching.
Quality of education does not decrease with less funding. Why is it Arkansasa has the worst education system when Clinton was Govenor? Again, my source comes from the newspaper so you should be able to reasearch it. Quality of education drops with more funding.
Where did you get your sources? Or don't you have sources?
posted on November 24, 2002 05:16:00 PM new
My kid's school has nearly all teachers with Masters Degrees yet the school rates in the bottom 48% of the nation.
posted on November 24, 2002 05:19:35 PM new
give all the elected officials some "standard test's"! we'll see how well they do.
[ edited by drkosmos on Nov 24, 2002 05:25 PM ]
posted on November 24, 2002 05:22:56 PM new
Print This Story E-mail This Story
(*Editors Note | "What is remarkable about the following piece is that is was
circulated through a mailing list called "The Republican." If there is truly
movement within the Republican rank and file to reign in the abuses of this
administration all those that oppose those abuses should embrace that
movement. - ma."
Bush Government "Out of Control"
By Chuck Baldwin
Disrtbuted by The Republican
November 22, 2002
Back in August, columnist Paul Craig Roberts asked the question, "Is a vote
for Republicans a vote for a police state?" The answer seems to be a
resounding yes! The Bush administration seems determined to turn our country
into the most elaborate and sophisticated police state ever devised.
Things are so bad that outgoing house majority leader Dick Armey said that
under Bush the federal government is "out of control." In fact, the
conservative congressman is reported to be seriously considering taking a
position with the ACLU in order to help fight the federal government's
usurpation of constitutionally protected liberties. Does that mean one must
leave the Republican Party in order to fight for liberty? Maybe so.
According to News Max, "Rep. Tom Tancredo (R-CO) is being targeted for defeat
- not by the Democrats, but by the GOP establishment." Why? Tancredo is the
country's most outspoken critic of Bush's accommodations of illegal aliens.
In other words, it's not enough to be a conservative Republican; one must be
absolutely loyal to the fuehrer, George Bush, and to his brand of big
government Republicanism. Tancredo's not, so he's on his way out.
Furthermore, columnist William Safire recently warned against Bush's Homeland
Security Act. In a column written for the New York Times Safire said, "Every
purchase you make with a credit card, every magazine subscription you buy and
medical prescription you fill, every Web site you visit and e-mail you send
or receive, every academic grade you receive, every bank deposit you make,
every trip you book and every event you attend - all these transactions and
communications will go into what the Defense Department describes as 'a
virtual, centralized grand database.'"
Safire continued, "To this computerized dossier on your private life from
commercial sources, add every piece of information that government has about
you - passports, driver's license and bridge toll records, judicial and
divorce records, complaints from nosy neighbors to the FBI, your lifetime
paper trail plus the latest hidden camera surveillance - and you have the
supersnoop's dream: a 'Total Information Awareness' about every U.S.
citizen."
In another account, The Seattle Times recently reported, "The USA Patriot Act
remains shrouded in complexity and secrecy. Bush administration officials
won't say how it has been used."
The Times continued by saying, "The CIA and FBI for the first time ever are
allowed to mix foreign intelligence with law enforcement on U.S. soil. Citing
the act, Attorney General John Ashcroft also authorized FBI agents to spy on
domestic groups without having to show evidence of a crime."
The tyrannical tendencies of old King George III of England cannot hold a
candle to the Machiavellian machinations of King George XLIII of the United
States. Unfortunately, there are few Paul Reveres around to sound an alarm.
Unless contemporary patriots act quickly, Republicans, not Democrats, will be
the ones that ultimately dismantle our constitution and trample our
liberties.
posted on November 24, 2002 05:35:34 PM new
I went to a private school in one of the highest rated educated states. We had a low teacher to student ratio; everyone had books; school building was very nice; we had special ed and summer school. Yet, there were still several students struggling to get an average grade. Same thing in High school.
My schools were struggling financially. As a matter of fact my high school eventually closed due to lack of money. However, our school graduates had a high 96% rate that went onto college, compared to the national average of 52%.
posted on November 24, 2002 07:23:05 PM new
Quickdraw did bring up one very salient point about the failing schools: moeny and better teachers and good classrooms and teaching aids won't fix a thing UNLESS the kids are there to learn!
When we went to school, we went for more days per year; or, more total hours per school year. We learned more than kids do these days, all without computers. Think that there's a connection?
These days, there are so many Teacher Conferance Days here in Oregon that Teachers work a strict four-day work week. Many public schools have shortened their overall academic hours per year to an all time low point. Those missing hours are camflagued by such things as in-school activities that have no academic value, but basically, takes care of the kids, like longer lunch hours, break times, etc; or, sports activites, etc.
I think that if we do anything, we put our kids back on a five-day school week, eight hours per day academic time, and make it all year long.
Then, our kids will get their full potential eduation.
posted on November 25, 2002 07:03:58 AM new
Teachers have complained about low salaries, and schools without books and supplies. They have also mentioned being overworked, which indicates a need to hire additional teachers. What besides money will handle these problems?
Scapegoating parents will not solve the problem.
I agree, Borillar that school should be held five days a week, eight hours a day.
posted on November 25, 2002 08:20:16 AM new
Pilots who make $200,000 a year complain about low salaries too. Who doesn't complain that they are overworked and underpaid? Books and supplies can easily be paid for through fundraisers.
Attracting better teachers is not a good answer. I had a teacher in high school and one in college that knew their subject inside and out. Unfortunately they taught above our heads. "A" students were getting C average grades. That means students werent learning from these highly scholored teachers.
Students should learn at their level so they can earn basic concepts first. Many schools seperate honor students, and seperate slow students in courses like math and English, and that is a great solution.
posted on November 25, 2002 08:22:58 AM new
>Your mean spirited attitude toward poor parents scratching lottery tickets
I never did say anything about poor parents. What I'm talking about is everyone's priorities...
Rather than "upsize" that meal, send it to the schools so that the children would be better fed and able the meet the challenges of school.
Rather the buy the scatch-offs in the futile hope of winning, send it to the schools so the schools will have the proper resources to teach our children. Lottery money DOES NOT go to the schools. Those few dollars a week are a better investment in you and your children's future than a lottery could EVER be.
Rather than killing yourself by working hours and hours of overtime, "to get ahead", spend it with your children so they won't be killing themselves in the future working overtime "to get ahead"
However, Money is not the answer, BUT, the lack of money is part of the problem.
.................................................
We call them our heroes...but we pay them like chumps
posted on November 25, 2002 08:44:27 AM new
From the posts here it amazes me how easy it was for the Republicans to "destroy" education in only 2 years, plus how little the Dems did to "fix" it in 8 years and a surging economy.
I think most teachers are overpaid (at least here in the NE). They get pretty good money for 9-10 months work, benefits and a guaranteed job. The only way I would vote for a raise is to eliminate tenure and have them periodically tested to see if they pass muster. Decide you can coast and you're out. You know like people in the rest of the real world.
Most of the "liberal" theories about education simply don't work. You don't double a teacher's salary to make them "teach better". This is like the old "we have to pay them THIS much so they don't steal". Dozens of studies show that how people perform their jobs is intrinsic to their nature. A person doesn't steal because he's making $5/hr anymore than a thief stops stealing because he's making $50/hr.
The major reason for book shortages is that you have to buy new ones because of graffiti and damage.
My grammar school violated every "rule" you guys have here. Class sizes were large, teachers paid at the low end of scale for the region, books could be in many instances several years old, no computers, no "language labs", no $1000 microscopes. It was a parochial school run by Dominican nuns (with many lay teachers). When everybody transfered to the public junior high, placement was automatically into the "honors" courses and the level above. Nobody wound up in general or remedial classes.
Not doing the work was not tolerated. Destroying a book was not tolerated. You signed for a book when you got it and it was inspected when you turned it in.
Education is the ultimate "kiss ass" profession. Joe Clark proved that even with low budgets and poor conditions "kick ass" works in the worst schools. But the "profession" is never going to tolerate someone upsetting the applecart.
posted on November 25, 2002 03:05:21 PM new
>I think most teachers are overpaid (at least here in the NE).
That must be nice to have. Overpaid teachers, that is. Here in Oregon, teachers have never been paid the national average, but rather, substantially below it.
It used to be that teachers would accept the sub-standard wages because that meant that they cold come to Oregon and have a job waiting for them there. Believe me - Oregon is that kind of state; or rather, it used to be before everyone else discovered it.
Previous to these modern times, Oregon's teachers often left in droves when things got bad here. If you can't afford to pay your house payment and have a family of your own, why bother to stay in that job? When teachers across the country were earning $35,000 a year, teachers here were earning $23,500 per year. We've lost a lot of teachers.
Portland's Public School system has been a non-stop disaster. Any teacher of quality runs away screaming into the night, never to be heard from again. Actually, they show their mettle and are recruited to other states to teach at adequate or better pay. Oregon's public schools are almost as bad as those in Mississippi and Georgia.
Like Helen said, you can't attract better teachers by offering them under-pay!
posted on November 25, 2002 03:24:23 PM new
You have to look at cost of living before you compare wages between Oregon and NE states. On the East Coast, houses can cost twice as high for a similar house in Oregon. Another factor is standard of living. No two hour commutes in Oregon.
posted on November 26, 2002 12:12:28 PM new
>You have to look at cost of living before you compare wages between Oregon and NE states. On the East Coast, houses can cost twice as high for a similar house in Oregon. Another factor is standard of living. No two hour commutes in Oregon.
That used to be true, quickdraw, but not anymore! We have traffic jambs here 18+ hours a day! Rush Hour starts at 5:00am and doesn't stop until around 8:00pm. A new, two-story, four bed + 3 bath on 1/4 acre goes for a half million dollars. Bread is nearly $3 a loaf in many stores, gas is $1.60 average. Rent for a two-bedroom, 1 bath apartment is around $750 per month. Of course, there are different economic areas in Portland-Metro and some prices will be more or less. But places that NEVER had traffic, like Bend, Oregon, now has plenty - and lots of polution as well! Then, Portland has been the Number #1 Toxic Site on the SuperFund Cleanup since the program began!
I could go on. The opportunity to come live in quaint, backwoods, green and spacious Oregon is GONE! It is no longer one of the "perks" for living and working here. Ask any teacher here and they'll tell you the same thing: it costs a LOT to live here and it's not nice anymore!
"The settlement comes almost 21/2 years after state education officials disclosed that NCS Pearson used the wrong answer key on 47,000 tests given in February and April 2000. About 8,000 students, from eighth-graders to high school seniors, were told they failed when they had actually passed. Several dozen missed their class graduation ceremonies because of it."
posted on November 26, 2002 12:58:47 PM new
Here's what a site on Oregon says on Portland, (updated today)
"The cost of living is lower than in any other major city along the Pacific Coast - and one of the lowest among all cities in the west."
Here's what a salary calculator compared Portland cost of Living to other cities.
Portland; wage $14,459/yr is comparable to a wage of $25,000 in Boston Massachusettes.
Portland $24,798 is comparable to a wage of $25,000 in Minneapolis Minnesota.
I don't know about 18 hour rush hours, I was in Portland a couple years back and there was no rush hour when I cruised through. The city is pretty small, it's not like bigger cities with suburb after suburb, so I don't know how you could have a terrible rush hour.
For a family of four, the government calculates the poverty line at about $18,000.
On the income front, the Census Bureau reported that the median household income fell 2.2 percent last year to $42,228, after adjusting for inflation -- the first drop since 1991.
...............
This is the average wage for an elementary teacher from the US Department of Labor Bureau of Labor Statistics. Starting teachers are working near poverty level.
Median annual earnings of kindergarten, elementary, middle, and secondary school teachers ranged from $37,610 to $42,080 in 2000; the lowest 10 percent earned $23,320 to $28,460; the top 10 percent earned $57,590 to $64,920. Median earnings for preschool teachers were $17,810. According to the American Federation of Teachers, beginning teachers with a bachelor's degree earned an average of $27,989 in the 1999-2000 school year. The estimated average salary of all public elementary and secondary school teachers in the 1999-2000 school year was $41,820. Private school teachers generally earn less than public school teachers.
posted on November 26, 2002 10:08:20 PM new
That's what I've been trying to get Squirrely and some others to do: to come back and to claim that the Cost of Living hasn't really risen! Yes! He and some others claim that if we all want to live the lifestyle of those in the 1950's, why, the median household income would be exactly the same!
In the meantime, we have criticisms of President Monroe and Jackson as Equal Time . . .
posted on November 26, 2002 10:27:50 PM new
$18,000 for family of four is poverty line in what state? New York? Certainly not Oregon.
The income drop is due to layoffs during the recession. Wages have risen.
"Starting teachers are working near poverty levels."
Your own stats indicate that is not true. The lowest 10% start out at $23, 320, which is likley in the lowest cost of living city in America, so when things are relative, the poverty level in that city would be around $10,000, which is a FT time at minimum wage. The teacher is making about $12 hour, that is more than double poverty levels.
posted on November 26, 2002 11:16:11 PM new
Phew, I don't know where Borillar is stretching now, he must be off his meds again. 1950's, no increase in the cost of living ...
The cost of living rises constantly, as do wages. The indicator that means anything is disposable income, which of course is much higher than it was in the fifties.
The avg Starting salary for teachers is about $29000. In Or it is $27900 with an avg of $44988. In Nj it's $31000 and $52000.
So a kid gets out of College gets a job @ $30000, lays low for a couple of years till he's tenured. He takes a few courses and/or gets a masters and soon he's into the 40s and 50s. Not bad for 9 months work and all the benefits. Most of the teachers I've encountered are not subject for TV shows about capturing young minds.
posted on November 27, 2002 06:04:38 AM new
Quickdraw
The poverty level does not vary from state to state or county with the exception of Alaska and Hawaii.
The numbers on the left are size of family followed by the poverty level.
1 family member...$8,860
2 family members..11,940
3 family members..15,020
4 family members..18,100
5 family members..21,180
6 family members..24,260
7 family members..27,340
8 family members..30,420
For family units with more than 8 members, add $3,080 for each
additional member. (The same increment applies to smaller family sizes
also, as can be seen in the figures above.)
posted on November 27, 2002 08:06:36 AM new
The Census figures are flawed, and there are groups who are seeking change with those guidelines.
The flaw is cost of living vary's bewteen cities, states and counties.
So for the purpose of discussion, you can't make any reliable points using the Census figures.
The other point is, poverty is based on national income, so in a rich country like the U.S., the poor are more well off than other countries. That's a huge factor. Not to mention for .50˘ a poor person could wear a Ralph Lauren shirt bought from a thrift store, or find other ways to stretch their income. Something not so easily done in other poor countries.
