posted on November 27, 2002 11:56:33 AM new
>Here's what a site on Oregon says on Portland, (updated today)
I don't give a damn what those figures were reported to have said or how long it's been since you've been to Portland, but things are as I've described it. Traffic IS 18 hours a day along I-5 which runs through Portland and the surrounding highways are packed during daylight hours on most days. The pollution from automobiles makes the air so poisonous that I have to close up the place during the day to keep the air inside breathable. Seemion gly every last person has heard about "wonderful Oregon" and has moved here until you can't fit anyone in here without a shoehorn. There are people everwhere, every camping site, and on every mountian spot. You can't go find a piece of Oregon and be left alone - there are three other campers there as well. The price of a decent loaf of bread goes between $2.50 for the low quality to $5.00 a loaf for the really good stuff. If you want the foamed-bread; that is, the dough was turned into a foam before baking - that's up to a dollar a loaf. Rent is not cheap here anymore. When I came here in 1980, a two-bed, single bathroom was only $180.00 a month. Now, it's $750.00 a month and climbing. With a devastated economy and a local goverment which echoes Bush's ideals and the GOP's, all that they do is steal from us what's left of taxpayer funds for their buddies in industry. Crime is a booming industry here, although they won't admit to it much. No, Portland and Oregon are NOT the Quaint little backwoods greenery that so many remember in bygone years. Sorry, getting a chance to go live in Oregon just isn't a perk anymore.
posted on November 27, 2002 12:12:39 PM new
Neither is Maryland. I tried to buy a pair of shoes yesterday, made in America. I couldn't find the shoes or a salesclerk who could speak English. LOL. I finally gave up and decided that I would just go "barefooted" as they used to say in Mis'sipi.
Then, I had to listen to my husband, who has become my chauffeur, raise hell all the way home because there are too many G.Dam people in this area and the engineers who designed the roads were idiots and other obscenities that I can't mention here.
posted on November 27, 2002 04:30:48 PM new
hey quickdraw, what thrift stores do you shop at? a RL shirt goes for $12.95 at my thrift store!!
yeah the poor people in this country have it so-o-o good!
posted on November 27, 2002 04:38:00 PM new
Let's hear it for the GOP
In his first four months in office, here’s how George W. Bush dealt with the rest of the world:
*He reneged on our agreement with the European Community to cut our carbon dioxide emissions.
*He started a new Cold War, this time with China, over an American spy plane that knocked one of their planes out of the sky, killing the pilot.
He allowed the peace process in the Middle East to crumble, resulting in some of the worst slaughter we’ve ever seen between Israelis and Palestinians.
*He started a new Cold War with Russia by actively preparing to violate the anti ballistic missile (ABM) treaties of the 1970s.
*He threatened to unilaterally reduce our presence in the former Yugoslavia, resulting in renewed violence between the ethnic groups in the region.
*He defied UN human rights agreements, resulting in the United Nations removing the United States from its Human Rights Commission.
*He bombed civilians in Iraq, just like Daddy did.
*He stepped up the drug war in South America, resulting in the United States helping the Colombians to shoot down a plane full of American missionaries, killing a Michigan mother and her child.
*He cut off any hope of reducing tensions with North Korea, guaranteeing not only that mass starvation there will continue but that its leader, film nut Kim Jong Il, will never return his overdue videos to Blockbuster.
*He turned basically every country in the world against us by stating he was going to go ahead and build the nutty “Star Wars” missile defense system.
All this was accomplished in less than 120 short days and that’s just in between bouts of knocking the wind out of our domestic policy, as we’ve already seen. Those of us who thought Junior was an underachiever have certainly been impressed by his get up and goad.
So now the world is back to hating us. At least we’re back on familiar ground.
another excerpt from "Stupid White Men" by Michael Moore
[ edited by drkosmos on Nov 27, 2002 04:39 PM ]
posted on November 27, 2002 04:47:45 PM new
more words of wisdom from Michael Moore...
Among the top twenty industrialized nations, WE’RE number one!!
We’re number one in millionaires.
We’re number one in billionaires.
We’re number one in military spending.
We’re number one in firearm deaths.
We’re number one in beef production.
We’re number one in per capita energy use.
We’re number one in carbon dioxide emissions (more than Australia, Brazil, Canada, France, India, Indonesia, Germany, Italy, Mexico, and the United Kingdom combined).
We’re number one in total and per capita municipal waste (720 kilograms per person per year).
We’re number one in hazardous waste produced (by a factor of more than twenty times our nearest competitor, Germany).
We’re number one in oil consumption.
We’re number one in natural gas consumption.
We’re number one in the least amount of tax revenue generated (as a percentage of gross domestic product).
We’re number one in the least amount of federal and state government expenditure (as a percentage of GDP).
We’re number one in budget deficit (as a percentage of GDP).
We’re number one in daily per capita consumption of calories.
We’re number one in lowest voter turnout.
We’re number one in number of political parties represented in the lower or single house.
We’re number one in recorded rapes (by a factor of almost three times our nearest competitor Canada).
We’re number one in injuries and deaths from road accidents (almost twice as many as runner up Canada).
We’re number one in births to mothers under the age of twenty (again, more than twice as many as Canada, and nearly twice as many as number two New Zealand).
We’re number one in the number of international human rights treaties not signed.
We’re number one among countries in the United Nations with a legally constituted government to not ratify the
UN Convention on the Rights of the Child.
We’re number one in number of known executions of child offenders.
We’re number one in likelihood of children under the age of fifteen to die from gunfire.
We’re number one in likelihood of children under the age of fifteen to commit suicide with a gun.
We’re number one in lowest eighth grade math scores.
We’re number one in becoming the first society in history in which the poorest group in the population are
children.
posted on November 27, 2002 07:50:07 PM new
drkosmos
Thanks for posting that.
We can't afford to think of America as rich and powerful while these problems and inequities exist and we can't allow our national pride to blind us to the fact that there is a world beyond America with conditions even more deplorable.
posted on November 27, 2002 08:00:15 PM new
. . . and now, a few words from Bear presenting "equal time" on President Polk . . . so that this thread will be "fair and balanced" . . .
posted on November 27, 2002 10:49:54 PM new
"We can't afford to think of America as rich and powerful while these problems and inequities exist."
There will always be inequalities. If there weren't, no one would have incentive to produce and create. If it was so bad to have these inequalities, then why does America's poor have a higher standard of living than other countries? Any system that allows the poor to rise in standard of living is not something to criticsize.
"we can't allow our national pride to blind us to the fact that there is a world beyond America with conditions even more deplorable."
We already send Billions of dollars in aid money to needy nations. A lot of it ends up in the hands of officials who steal it and buy Mercedes. If these poor countries government won't help its own poor, and steal food from their mouths, what more can you ask of us U.S. taxpayers, seeing our money go to some thieves buying Mercedes?
Millions of dollars worth of food was donated to other countries poor, and most of it never got their because of the poor roads.
We also send many of our brightest people to help poor countries build, farm, teach and give medical aid.
You really need to start giving our country's citizens some well deserved praise for supporting poor all across the world.
posted on November 27, 2002 11:40:32 PM new
How has the system been compromised? Are the poor the only issue we can devote our resourses on? Maybe the poor shouldn't be having children.
posted on November 28, 2002 05:56:16 AM new
Yeager
Borillar knows the score. It's not possible to knock quickdraw off his arrogant perch.
Drkosmos's list is not all about poverty.
On this day when some give thanks for what they have, don't forget that so many others have nothing - like the poor in Indonesia working for US $1.20 per day making shoes for Nike.
posted on November 28, 2002 11:09:01 AM new
Nice answer Borillar, it shows you're full of hot air.
Helenjw, using facts without twisting it is not arrogance, nice attempt to put me on the defensive.
Keep posting your lies and I'll keep posting the truths.
We give thanks to what we have because we contributed to it, and we are entitled to that.
The poor in Indonesia are making a good wage for their level of skills, and their cost of living is extremely low. Had it not been Nike for offering those people such a wage they'd be unemployed, and Nike wouldn't have a plant there generating money into their economy.
Do you ever think things through or just say what sounds good?
posted on November 28, 2002 12:53:49 PM new
quickdraw
I don't post lies or just say what sounds good.
Where is there any truth in your comments? It would take a real idiot to believe that one dollar and a few cents a day is a good wage anywhere in the world for any unskilled worker and that the cost of living is that low anywhere in the world.
And give me a break about Nike generating money into Indonesia. Nike is generating profit for Nike by taking advantage of poverty in Indonesia.
If this is a game, you are losing. Your responses are so ludicrous that posters are going to ignore you and stop responding. It has reached that point for me already.
posted on November 28, 2002 01:55:13 PM new
Since you lack any facts to back you up, that means you post what sounds good.
Lets look at Indonesia. Poverty has declined from 60% in the '70's to 21% in the '90s.
In 2001 the number of households earning less than 7.5 million (US$890) is 67% of households. The average, $670. The richest 2.5% earn US$1,700.
$1.25 per hour doesn't sound good until you consider that it is about half their national average. The U.S. National average household income in 2001 is $42,228. Half that is $21,114. Not too bad.
I have to clarify, many workers send their money back home in the rural areas (to the farm where food and housing is very cheap). However, if they had two workers per household, their household income is the national average. Pretty good.
Most spending in Indonesia is on local items like home, food and clothing. Their purchasing power goes a lot further because only 12% of the items they buy are imported, when their purhasing power decreases.
Nike pays taxes in Indonesia, provides jobs to the very low skilled, which has helped raise the GNP in Indonesia.
Many companies in the U.S. take advantage of its workers too, a story on Southwest Airlines shows the workers earning less and working longer hours just so consumers get the lowest cost ticket. It's not good for the workers, but it's good for consumers.
You have continously badmouthed me yet you fail to produce facts. You are the loser because the side you are trying to protect doesn't even have an intelligent person (that's you) defending them.
Like I said, badmouthing your oppenent discredits your stance. Provide facts!
[ edited by quickdraw29 on Nov 28, 2002 02:02 PM ]
posted on November 28, 2002 02:08:06 PM new
To show how ludricous your comments are about the wages Nike pays, if Nike rose their workers wages to $3.00, that could put a husband/wife duo in the richest 2.5% of Indonesia. And just for working on a factory line!
posted on November 28, 2002 06:25:09 PM new
It's not good for the workers, but it's good for consumers
is that who we want to benefit in this world?...consumers? so they can have cheap shoes, cheap gas and their big slurpy ... while the planet goes to hell!
the one's with the most toys (or products) don't win, they just use more of our resources
posted on November 28, 2002 06:29:37 PM new
We already send Billions of dollars in aid money to needy nations. A lot of it ends up in the hands of officials who steal it and buy Mercedes. If these poor countries government won't help its own poor, and steal food from their mouths, what more can you ask of us U.S. taxpayers, seeing our money go to some thieves buying Mercedes?
we send billions to the u.s. government in the form of taxes to officials who "steal" it and spend it on pork, not to mention military spending. if this country won't help it's poor, and steal food from their mouths, what do we ask for? a revolution?
posted on November 28, 2002 07:04:48 PM newjunquemama
Helen,thats an easy,gravid would never talk to you like that
junquemama, it was so nice of you to come to gravid's defense. I usually just respond to the comments without too much reliance on who the ID may REALLY be. Who knows? Gravid may not be Gravid and Quickdraw may not be Quickdraw and you may not be you and I may be me. It's just a game.
The salary was 1.25 per day according to the article that I read...not 1.25 per hour as quickdraw stated. I haven't been able to find that article but I have found other articles with wages stated as low as 30 cents an hour or 2.40 a day. But I don't want to argue about it any more.
Nike is exploiting the poor people in Indonesia, who are living in slums.
Helen
ubb.ed. to remove smiley face because there's nothing to smile about.
"The Stockholm Peace Research Institute estimated in 2001 that the world military expenditure was $ 839 billion. Five countries accounted for 50% of this and 15 major spenders accounted for 75 % of it. An Indonesian worker producing Nike shoes at the end of the production chain earns US $ 1.20 a day."
"It is frightening to think that a large number of people in the "developed" countries readily believe that the states accounting for 75% of the world's military expenditure do not count as 'war-mongers' while states with a fraction of that as their national income and populations earning less than US $ 1.20 are. Those who fight with kitchen knives and teenage kids transforming themselves into human bombs are seen as "equal" to most heavily armed nations ganging up to fight them. Common sense, it appears, is no longer "common".
"The end of the Cold War was welcomed by many for different reasons. To some it signalled the end of "communism" and to others it signalled the beginning of world peace. Instead what happened was the opposite. Iraq was the beginning."
posted on November 29, 2002 10:26:14 AM new We already send Billions of dollars in aid money to needy nations. A lot of it ends up in the hands of officials who steal it and buy Mercedes. If these poor countries government won't help its own poor, and steal food from their mouths, what more can you ask of us U.S. taxpayers, seeing our money go to some thieves buying Mercedes?
Yes we do and yes they do. But that is the way the American government and the foreign ogv't want it.
Imagine if you will, that Corporate America wants to drill for Oil in the poor country. Well before the Oil can be drilled, the country will need money to build roads out to that area. Imagine how appalled the leaders would be if we sent them Road building equipment and materials? Do you know how hard it is to deposit a dump truck into your Swiss Bank account?
When it comes to the giving of foreign aid, we don't care if it ever reaches the poor, as long as our agenda is met. If WE cared, it wouldn't happen. WE wouldn't let it.
.................................................
We call them our heroes...but we pay them like chumps
posted on November 29, 2002 11:23:41 AM new
Having trouble with your math, Helenjw? I calculated the annual earnings of $1.25 per day as you stated and came up with Nike workers actually earning the national houshold annual average. I have yet to understand your logic how that is exploiting workers. Can you clarify further?
It's like saying U.S. workers who earn the national annual household income of $42,000+ is being exploited. Maybe you're an economic genius and can explain how companies can pay more without hurting profits, or without raising prices. I'd be more than interested in hearing your answer.
