posted on January 4, 2003 01:10:29 AM new
I have a friend who works the night shift at a local 7-11 store. On a couple of nights per week, I will go there and keep her company, usually between the hours of 12 midnight and 2-3 a.m.
Sometimes, there are people that like to try to give her trouble, usually when they try to buy alcohol. The presence of another person there will usually keep them in line. I'm 5'11 and weight about 245, (I hold it pretty well). She herself is pretty assertive toward aggressive customers.
At this 7-11 store, the corporate management always welcomes the local police in for free coffee and fountain drinks, and to use the bathroom. She and I both get to know the police officers fairly well. On one particular time, an officer left the store and she remarked that he was the nicest guy, but he is so homophobic. I wonder why.
The morning host on the local radio station, (low budget) alway made low key, anti-gay reference on the air with out thinking anything about it. In doing this, he publically dispalyed his homophobia.
So here's my question. Why are people, especially men, so homophobic? Are these people afraid that they might be gay, and need the cover of homophobia to hide it? Are they unsure about their true sexual identity? If other people see them making fun of gays, will their friends think they are straight as an arrow.
What do you think on this? Both men and women are welcomed to respond. Please note: This is not about calling anyone names whom you may disagree with. Thanks
It's rather sad than you appear to show a lack of education or knowledge to understand what this thread is about. You were the first one to reply with such a comment.
In case you don't understand, it's about human behavior. I could respond like you did, and make a similar remark about you, but I wouldn't be able to reach the handle on the refrigerator if I did.
posted on January 4, 2003 04:07:47 AM newyeager: mainly because human sexual preference is not BLACK & WHITE!
There is a huge gradient in all of us. Since our society for the past 150 years or so, has denounced same-sex love, folks who have a slight tendency toward homosexuality over-compensate in their antipathy towards gays as a defense mechanism, trying to preserve their (probable) fragile egos.
My own philosophy is: whatever comsenting adults do in their bedrooms is no concern of anybody but themselves! Live & let live...and be kind to Ralphie!!
posted on January 4, 2003 04:33:39 AM new
There's nothing hypocritical in your response to my post and this "Please note: This is not about calling anyone names whom you may disagree with.Thanks" portion of your statement, now is there yeager?
posted on January 4, 2003 06:07:10 AM newWhy are people, especially men, so homophobic? Are these people afraid that they might be gay, and need the cover of homophobia to hide it? Are they unsure about their true sexual identity? If other people see them making fun of gays, will their friends think they are straight as an arrow.
This making fun of could be seen the same as any other 'difference' we humans have and not really have anything to do with sex at all. It's not unusual for people to make fun of anything they can't/don't understand or identify with.
Then there are those who were raised with the belief that being gay is against nature, or is against their religious beliefs. Because they feel this way, doesn't mean they are unsure of their own sexual identity.
posted on January 4, 2003 07:36:18 AM new
What a bofoo question this is.
It supposes that homophobia is an abnormality, an aberration from rational thought. It turns
on the idea that people should naturally and
rationally accept without question the practice of homosexualty, a concept only advanced in our society in the last 25 or so years in contrast to hundreds, possibly thousands of years of religious and ethical teaching to the contrary.
The view of homosexuality as "normal" is a new one that has been cleverly and skillfully advanced by homosexuals with the intent of forcing society to "accept" them on their terms and ultimately pay for their
"choice" of lifestyle.
Your phrasing "...why are PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY MEN.." is manipulative and assumptive. WHAT people? How many? What do you base that on? Are women NOT homophobic, or are they not homophobic only as regards gay men who are sexually unthreatening to them? How do they feel about being hit on by bull dykes?
By the same rationale you ask your question, let me ask another:
Why are Women so manipulative and
dependent on the premise that THEIR idea of what is CORRECT and NORMAL IS correct and normal?
posted on January 4, 2003 10:19:30 AM newWhy are Women so manipulative and dependent on the premise that THEIR idea of what is CORRECT and NORMAL IS correct and normal?
All women belong to the same club,We are in training to take over the world. We don't rattle swords,just pots and pans,"be careful".
Non of us like war,but will fight back.
We try to protect rather then destroy.
Right from wrong means,we know,right from wrong.
We have no interest in destroying another country,You mess with our flower garden tho,and you are in deep do-do.
When a man says he has to work late.....He better be working late.
Some of us like to work, others like to stay home (the most dangerous)Men dont want to carry a baby in their bellys for 9 months,We do it so they dont have too.
And dont you dare try to wear the exact, party dress at the New Years party at the Cunninghams.
Ive said too much,Your life may be in danger.
posted on January 4, 2003 12:01:06 PM new
Personally I am formally polite to everyone that will allow it. I think it really takes a lot to provoke me.
There have been times I saw homosexual people I thought were treated terribly.
There was one boy in High School that was almost never there. He was abused and beat up and on top of his homosexuality he was poor and dirty due to neglect from his family and had some obvious obsessive compulsive problems (I'm not trying to link that to the orientation) So he was a real target for the kids as they are mostly a bunch of little savages that will beat anything different to death with a stick.
However in my adult life I have been approuched several times by homosexuals and they way they did it was not so as to lend warm feelings. I once was sitting having a meal at a drivein burger place and a fellow got out of a car there and brazenly got in my car and displayed a book to me that was pornographic pictures of Bugs Bunny with an huge swollen phallas and suggested we do something similar in a crude manner. I don't appreciate a complete stranger entering my car and suggesting I recieve something rammed up an orfice that has another function. An act and idea I find disgusting. Nobody ever seems to remember that there are several homosexual acts and buggery is so brutal and ugly that they just skip over that and pretend its all about kissy face and dressing up.
It's an ugly violent life style that brings disease and suffering and I normally don't say much about it because I figure it's it's own punishment and what should I add?
If someone just told me I was cute - and did I fly that way? I'd have no hard feelings. But being groped in a public restroom as another fellow did or having my car invaded is not my idea of foreplay. I'd certainly be angry and upset and throw her butt out of my car at any woman that made such a crude advance at me.
posted on January 4, 2003 12:14:56 PM new
Linda_K, Feel free to join in,Its a big list of womens short comings.And we need to be ashamed of our selves,
posted on January 4, 2003 12:56:39 PM new
junque - you go girl!!
Isn't that just bad behaviour gravid? Being approached by another person that's interested in you can be done aggressively or passively by any sex.
You just got a taste of what most women go through with men gravid, with their cheap lines and grossness about what they want to do with you. It's just bad behavior imo.
posted on January 4, 2003 01:04:19 PM new
>a concept only advanced in our society in the last 25 or so years in contrast to hundreds, possibly thousands of years of religious and ethical teaching to the contrary.
Wow, Bob! Those history facts are not correct. No matter how you feel about the questions posed by this thread, I'm sure you'd prefer to have your facts correct so that others who do know the facts better won't look at you so strangely.
posted on January 4, 2003 02:19:47 PM new
Borillar-
I believe the Bible specifically mentions a man with a man as an abomination and given the age of the bible (old testament)I believe that qualifies as thousands of years. I can't quote you chapter and verse but I'm certain a religious person can.
The ethical teachings comment refers to
societal rules from cultures all over- Homosexuality derived the tribe of a potential sire and hence, the growth necessary for the continuing survival of the tribe and as a result was generally outlawed.
This is true in ancient Norse cultures and those they influenced, Arabic cultures of all types, and most that developed under the Romans. It doesn't mean homosexuality wasn't practiced, just that the practice was proscribed.
However, Bob, you are aware that Dictionaries do not tell what the correct usage of a word is! A Dictionary only tells what the current usage is; usually the most common and then going backwards to least common and in many Dictionaries, usage no longer used, as in Old English.
So what IS the correct use of the word "Abomination"?
Well, Bob, back when the Old Testament was being transcribed from Hebrew to Greek, the world "Abomination" meant anything that was against the Jewish Laws! So what Leviticus was saying was, "Men do not have sex with other men because it is against our laws."
So, unless you abide by all of the ancient Jewish Laws, Bob, homosexuality is not a crime. Not that you said that it was.
What you are referring to is that it has only been in recent decades that men have become openly gay. That's true, for Western countries. Somewhat. Or, not exactly, to be honest. Such things as Queen Elizabeth, upon assuming the Throne of England, was informed as to the various sexual natures of Her subjects. She could believe that men were disgusting enough to go have sex with other men, but she would never in her lifetime believe that a woman would have sex with another woman. Therefore, male homosexuality was made unlawful, while it was perfectly legal to be female and openly gay.
And Bob, America has long tolerated open homosexuality. Usually, openly gay men and women were given a small area of town to live in. It was not talked about in polite society, yet it existed. If you stumbled onto that part of town, you'd be in for a real shocker, as openly gay men would be working and having fun without hiding in the closet.
In fact, Europe was a lot more tolerant of homosexuality throughout it's history than of witchcraft or other so-called deviant social behaviors. You are right that Germanic societies disliked homosexuality, yet their warrior casts were heavily into homosexuality. While the Nazi regime killed thousands or more homosexuals in German society, Adolph and his Merry Gang of Thugs were privately practicing homosexuals.
My point is that a pretty picture has been painted in our history about homosexuality. In reality, homosexuality has been very open for most of our history and every effort to push them back into the closet has met with problems of every assorted nature. As prostitution was illegal, it was and always is tolerated, so is open displays of homosexuality.
posted on January 4, 2003 02:56:40 PM new
Being historically proscribed or admonished in the bible provides no rational grounds for homophobia. There are books older than the bible that do not proscribe homosexuality, including the advice of Socrates.
The same macho guys that hate male homosexuals will flock to see lesbians in action.
My personal observation about homophobes is that they tend to be men with strong bonds and relationships with other men and exclusive male groups, and they have absolute fear that the relationships have even a possibility of sexual overtones - gays remind them of this possibility. The sexual overtones have severe results due to social presssures and belief systems. The he-man who is actually gay buries the stereo-types and directly confronts and contradicts the homophobe's beliefs.
posted on January 4, 2003 03:29:27 PM new
Gross but funny.
I have yet to see anyone explore the question of what that prohibition of being with a man the same as a woman means. Does it imply that buggery is prohibited but fellatio is OK?
As far as I can see the Bible does not address any lesbian activity.
posted on January 4, 2003 04:36:09 PM new
Borillar - We're not that far from ageeing- but for details.
Homosexuality is against Jewish law whether or not you abide by ANY of those laws. Likewise it has been illegal in many other cultures, whether or not it was overlooked or openly displayed. However, in this country in this century it has been mostly illegal, often reviled and absolutely preached against as an abnormality. I believe the less obvious revilement of lesbianism has more to do with the paternalistic view of women until the latter part of the century - and the general absence of knowledge of such things in middle class society and the belief that a LADY wouldn't do such things.
While illegality or societal disapproval is not a valid basis for a phobia, there is nothing to suggest a valid basis for accepting that homosexuality is normal either - which brings us back to my original point- the posing of questions that rest upon a "fact" not in evidence - that homophobia is abnormal, thereby suggesting that acceptance of homosexuality is normal. This type of question is the basis of sophisticated push polling and I find it either ignorant or reprehensible, depending on the presenters intent as I perceive it.
posted on January 4, 2003 05:09:25 PM new
THanks, Bob. I, too, was addressing your original comments, in that such sentiments towards homophobia are not recent as you have asserted in your commentary.
edited to add:
As to the women, Leviticus does not say that lesbianism is an "abomination" or crime of any sort. That is one reason why it has been looked askance in our society's dualistic heritage. That when Queen Elizabeth ruled against male homosexuality, but not female homosexuality, she did so based upon the Bible, namely, Leviticus in the Old Testament (naturally).
[ edited by Borillar on Jan 4, 2003 05:13 PM ]
posted on January 4, 2003 05:23:30 PM new"The same macho guys that hate male homosexuals will flock to see lesbians in action."
LOL! <--- REALLY!
You know, I never noticed that! But it is so true! I also agree with your reasons, REAMOND, as to what sort of males find themselves being overly homophobic. I mean, one can dislike the practice and that can be viewed as being homophobic, but others can elevate it to the level of violence. It is the more extreme types that tend to have those strong male bonds and close relationships with one another.
Medically speaking, when growing up and going outside of your family circle for friendship around age eight, a person tends to seek out others of their own sex to have relationships with. When puberty hits and those hormones flow, it is supposed to affect a part of the brain that switches from same-sex relationships to other-sex relationships. For some men and women, this does not happen and they either begin to form those sorts of bonds normally experienced between a woman and a man, or they fear it. While during the teenage years, it is not strange to see young men staying together in groups, it is a bit odd when they are full adults and they tend to exclude their girlfriends and wives from their social activities. That this is also cultural in many countries only adds to the confusion; that is, men are supposed to relate with men and women are only to be used in a marriage; or, that men should not spend their time knitting with the women's group, etc.
posted on January 4, 2003 09:30:50 PM new
I have also known some that divide their world very sharply - wife for heirs and posterity - not to mention cooking and cleaning - and boys for fun and love.
Maybe you could make a case that homosexual behavior is a safety mechanism for when the man has some quality that is undesirable to pass on in the race.
I don't doubt that there is a bio-chemical bonding mechanism when you reach puberty that makes you bond to SOMEONE and reproduce whether it makes sense or not. That goes a long way to explaining some marraiges I've seen. But it is also a good arguement for same sex schooling too. Maybe they will develop some just-say-no pills to block that bonding.....
[ edited by gravid on Jan 4, 2003 09:32 PM ]
posted on January 4, 2003 10:23:39 PM new
The more homophobic a guy is, the more I think he's a homo himself. Take Jerry Falwell. He has the most severe case of homophobia going. Doesn't it make you think he's hiding something?
posted on January 4, 2003 10:56:56 PM new
Yes, Kraftdinner, it sure does! He fixates on it, dwells on it, preaches endlessly against it. Leviticus went on about beastiality and incest of every description, not just male homosexuality, and proclaimed them all worthy of public execution! Yet, how often does Jerry Falwell go out there and preach against incest? How often does he create a crusade to stamp out beastiality? I think that he is being selctive and it makes me wonder if he really is a latent homosexual himself.
. She herself is pretty assertive toward aggressive customers.
