posted on January 17, 2003 06:41:05 PM new
>We did them no favors with welfare & affirmative action, which engenders a second-class "I'm a victim" mentality that tells them that they can't succeed unless whites lower standards for them...
posted on January 17, 2003 07:06:25 PM new
Discrimination is discrimination, whether against blacks, whites, hispanics or asians.
The latest conrtoversy here is the Houston area, is about Shaq O'Neal using a sing-song chinese accent when refering to the Houston Rockets new basketball center Yau Ming (a native Chinese)
posted on January 17, 2003 08:40:27 PM new
Perhaps the most JUST outcome would be if the school simply experiences a drop off of high placement applicants because the high testing students will figure they are not going to be fairly reviewed for entry and just apply elsewhere.
Then there will be as many slots open as they need for low scoring mediocre students of all races and they can adapt the school to serving the needs of the sort of student body they desire.
It might just snowball until it becomes a sort of special ed college and they can just wallow in their special service. Other schools should be happy to take their rejects that placed too high.
Nothing like an EXTRA BIG helping of what you are asking for to make you see it in a new light.
posted on January 17, 2003 09:30:45 PM new
Borillar, that is exactly what affirmative action does--lower the standards. What else do you call it when kids who, if they were white wouldn't have the grades to get into a particular college or university, get in simply because they're black? Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
posted on January 17, 2003 09:44:19 PM newIs this solution colorblind? What is the racial makeup of the people living in the rich neighborhoods? What is the racial makeup of the school districts that get the "skimmed" money?
Yes, obviously it is. Because the principle is based on economic status, not race.
Our high schools are part of a public educational system. It is the right of every child to receive free (and equal) education through high school. The quality of that education should not be based on which neighborhood you grow up in.
But in our system, that's where the free ride ends. Universities and employers ARE allowed to acknowlege excellence.
posted on January 18, 2003 01:15:17 AM new
All I ask is that before you throw the baby oout with the bath water, find a suitable system of more fair corrections.
For instance:
>Borillar, that is exactly what affirmative action does--lower the standards. What else do you call it when kids who, if they were white wouldn't have the grades to get into a particular college or university, get in simply because they're black?
I'm not sure if you ever went to any of the sh1t-poor schools that minorities like blacks and hispanics often have to in the cities and in the rural countryside. If you had, you owuldn't be asking me that question.
FIRST: Fix the school funding! IF all schools are equally funded and staffed AND equipted, THEN we can start to talk about lowered standards for admissions! As it is now, it is the ONLY way that many students would ever get into many colleges. Many minority High schools just do not have the staff or equiptment to offer the same quality of education to the student that rich White kids get.
Oh, it was talked about back then -- equal funding for students/schools. You know, all income tax payers are taxed the same school rate, the state collects the funds, then disburses it equally to every school on a per-student basis.
Guess what? White Bigots and Rich didn't like that! Hell, I've even seen it on here on the RT in the last year! Just WHY IN THE HELL DO YOU THINK THAT SYSTEM WE HAVE IS IN PLACE RIGHT NOW FOR? To give Whites a 'feel' for how prwjudice works? Hell no! It's because too many jackasses won't allow EQUAL FUNDING, soi this is the best system that we have to use. You don't like it?? Take it up with the jerks who won't do Equal School Funding! (Hint: It's the same folks who want School Vouchers to Private Schools)
posted on January 18, 2003 01:46:57 AM newI'm not sure if you ever went to any of the sh1t-poor schools that minorities like blacks and hispanics often have to in the cities and in the rural countryside. If you had, you owuldn't be asking me that question.
I grew up in Bakersfield which, although it has some very affluent areas also has a lot of crappy ones. I went to Horace Mann elementary school which was fully integrated. I spent 7th grade at Sierra Jr. High which was also fully integrated &, when I enrolled, sent a letter to my home stating that all students were to leave chains and knives at home (my mother was very vocal when asking the principal just what kind of school her daughter was enrolled in). I spent 8th grade at Compton Jr. High (no, not that Compton) which was the only lily-white school I have ever attended--they got their single black student during the second half of my year there. I went to East Bakersfield High, which was so integrated that the whites were in the minority at that time--and it certainly didn't get the funding or perks that the high schools in the better parts of town had.
Funny, all the minorities I went to school with had the very same opportunities that I did. And they worked just as hard as I did, not that our school didn't have its share of slackers & party animals--guess they hadn't heard that they weren't supposed to have a work ethic due to their racial background! Like the majority of my classmates, I was dirt poor. Also a latch key kid with a single, working mom, and I had the added joy of having been sexually abused by a neighbor as a young child. My sister was under hospital care for quite a while after having had a nervous breakdown in the halls of the same high school I ended up going to(she ended up committing suicide when I was 17) and the councelors & teachers pretty mnuch treated me as if I was mentally deficient in some way--heck when I developed bursitis my wonderful councelor recommended that I see a psychiatrist because she thought it was all in my mind!. I pretty much guess that my life has been as shitty as anybody could be dealt. And I managed to overcome it all by hard work & study, and not by expecting the bar to be lowered for me because I had been "disadvantaged."
Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
posted on January 18, 2003 04:05:52 AM new
Borrilar,
Now if I were to tell you that the Australian Aborigine has a shorter life span,
I guess some of the clean descent living christian white folk on this chat would say that they're not trying hard enough.
I’ve said it in another chat but think it applies equally here-
HA HA HA
they say---YEAH!!! Let the bludgers get a job.
Yeah! Let the bludgers work hard, just like ‘dubya’ it’s not that his daddy gave it to him.
.
.
It certainly wasn’t intellect that got him where he is today,
12/16 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
His SAT score said it all.
"The Advertiser" South Australia Jan 6 2003. (page 32) Article entitled;-
"Naming Rights"
"CHICAGO: It helps to have a white-sounding name when looking for work in the US.
A Chicago University study found resumes using names like Neil, Greg, Emilly and Anne elicited 50 per cent more responces than ones with names including Tamika, Ebony, Aisha, Rasheed and Kareem."
So can some of you now understand that intellect alone does not get you places.
It seems that skin colour alone is enough to handicap one.
And some of you people are saying, let them work harder!
With all the concern America is showing at the moment, to ‘liberate’ the people under Sadam’s oppressive regime, it’s strange to see so little concern for your own countrymen’s oppression.
posted on January 18, 2003 05:36:24 AM new
Since I posted her quote, I'll also post her correction.
U.S. officials said she was stung by a Washington Post story that said she helped convince Bush that favoring minorities was not an effective way of improving diversity on college campuses. Rice discussed the article with Bush, who urged her to go public with her differences, the officials said, speaking on condition of anonymity.
In a written statement issued Friday, Rice said: "I believe that while race-neutral means are preferable, it is appropriate to use race as one factor among others in achieving a diverse student body."
posted on January 18, 2003 06:34:51 AM newRacists are in favor of your position, mlecher. Your position is KKK endorsed.
My, aren't we an arrogant. I believe the KKK and other organization like you actually believe in racism.
I don't endorse racism. Your statements say you do.
I believe in treating everyone equally. Your statements say some races should have priviledge.
I am a memeber of the HUMAN RACE. You apparently believe society should be divided into seperate race sectors, each with their special treatment to lord over the other races.
Don't you EVER hint that I am a racist, and then support RACIST, YES RACIST, policies! How do you test to see if a policy is racist? Insert "White" where the minority race was to be inserted and see how RACIST the policy is.
You are the racist. The NAZI and KKK organizations support FULLY your position. You make recruiting so much easier.
.................................................
We call them our heroes...but we pay them like chumps
[ edited by mlecher on Jan 18, 2003 06:39 AM ]
posted on January 18, 2003 03:28:22 PM new
YES
We have equality in as far as –WE ARE ALL IN THE SAME RACE---
But the problem is,---SOME OF US ONLY HAVE ONE LEG----
And most of you are saying, – ‘let them hop’—.
My,,,, these ‘minorities’ are well represented in the armed forces.
posted on January 18, 2003 06:11:51 PM new
Martin Luther King's
Nobel Prize Acceptance Speech
December 10, 1964
Oslo, Norway
I accept the Nobel Prize for Peace at a moment when twenty-two million Negroes of the United States of America are engaged in a creative battle to end the long night of racial injustice. I accept this award in behalf of a civil rights movement which is moving with determination and a majestic scorn for risk and danger to establish a reign of freedom and a rule of justice.
I am mindful that only yesterday in Birmingham, Alabama, our children, crying out for brotherhood, were answered with fire hoses, snarling dogs and even death. I am mindful that only yesterday in Philadelphia, Mississippi, young people seeing to secure the right to vote were brutalized and murdered. And only yesterday more than 40 houses of worship in the State of Mississippi alone were bombed or burned because they offered a sunctuary to those who would not accept segregation.
I am mindful that debilitating and grinding poverty afflicts my people and chains them to the lowest rung of the economic ladder.
Therefore, I must ask why this prize is awarded to a movement which is beleaguered and committed to unrelenting struggle; to a movement which has not won the very peace and brotherhood which is the essence of the Nobel Prize.
After contemplation, I conclude that this award which I receive on behalf of that movement is profound recognition that nonviolence is the answer to the crucial political and moral question of our time -- the need for man to overcome oppression and violence without resorting to violence and oppression.
Civilization and violence are antithetical concepts. Negroes of the United States, following the people of India, have demonstrated that nonviolence is not sterile passivity, but a powerful moral force which makes for social transformation. Sooner or later all the people of the world will have to discover a way to live together in peace, and thereby transform this pending cosmic elegy into a creative psalm of brotherhood.
If this is to be achieved, man must evolve for all human conflict a method which rejects revenge, aggression and retaliation. The foundation of such a method is love. The tortuous road which has led from Montgomery, Alabama, to Oslo bears witness to this truth. This is a road over which millions of Negroes are travelling to find a new sense of dignity.
This same road has opened for all Americans a new ear of progress and hope. It has led to a new Civil Rights bill, and it will, I am convinced, be widened and lengthened into a superhighway of justice as Negro and white men in increasing numbers create alliances to overcome their common problems.
I accept this award today with an abiding faith in America and an audacious faith in the future of mankind. I refuse to accept despair as the final response to the ambiguities of history. I refuse to accept the idea that the "isness" of man's present nature makes him morally incapable of reaching up for the eternal "oughtness" that forever confronts him.
I refuse to accept the idea that man is mere flotsom and jetsom in the river of life unable to influence the unfolding events which surround him. I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality.
I refuse to accept the cynical notion that nation after nation must spiral down a militaristic stairway into the hell of thermonuclear destruction. I believe that unarmed truth and unconditional love will have the final word in reality. This is why right temporarily defeated is stronger than evil triumphant.
I believe that even amid today's motor bursts and whining bullets, there is still hope for a brighter tomorrow. I believe that wounded justice, lying prostrate on the blood-flowing streets of our nations, can be lifted from this dust of shame to reign supreme among the children of men.
I have the audacity to believe that peoples everywhere can have three meals a day for their bodies, education and culture for their minds, and dignity, equality and freedom for their spirits. I believe that what self-centered men have torn down, men other-centered can build up. I still believe that one day mankind will bow before the altars of God and be crowned triumphant over war and bloodshed, and nonviolent redemptive goodwill will proclaim the rule of the land.
"And the lion and the lamb shall lie down together and every man shall sit under his own vine and fig tree and none shall be afraid."
I still believe that we shall overcome.
This faith can give us courage to face the uncertainties of the future. It will give our tired feet new strength as we continue our forward stride toward the city of freedom. When our days become dreary with low-hovering clouds and our nights become darker than a thousand midnights, we will know that we are living in the creative turmoil of a genuine civilization struggling to be born.
Today I come to Oslo as a trustee, inspired and with renewed dedication to humanity. I accept this prize on behalf of all men who love peace and brotherhood. I say I come as a trustee, for in the depths of my heart I am aware that this prize is much more than an honor to me personally.
Every time I take a flight I am always mindful of the man people who make a successful journey possible -- the known pilots and the unknown ground crew.
So you honor the dedicated pilots of our struggle who have sat at the controls as the freedom movement soared into orbit. You honor, once again, Chief (Albert) Luthuli of South Africa, whose struggles with and for his people, are still met with the most brutal expression of man's inhumanity to man.
You honor the ground crew without whose labor and sacrifices the jet flights to freedom could never have left the earth.
Most of these people will never make the headlines and their names will not appear in Who's Who. Yet when years have rolled past and when the blazing light of truth is focused on this marvelous age in which we live -- men and women will know and children will be taught that we have a finer land, a better people, a more noble civilization -- because these humble children of God were willing to suffer for righteousness' sake.
I think Alfred Nobel would know what I mean when I say that I accept this award in the spirit of a curator of some precious heirloom which he holds in trust for its true owners -- all those to whom beauty is truth and truth beauty -- and in whose eyes the beauty of genuine brotherhood and peace is more precious than diamonds or silver or gold.
posted on January 21, 2003 03:36:38 AM new
I grew up in those slums, many years ago. Went to those same crap schools. Life wasn't easy. With determination and a will to better ones self, each and every American has the opportunity to move ahead. It may be harder for some but it's still there.
AA is a manacle to the minority's. It breeds contempt and hatred. There's many poor people out there, of all colors, whites included.
I believe the really poor should have help. I believe the handicap should have help but I think the bleeding hearts go a little to far. Welfare was to get people back on their feet. Not to support people, that could be productive, the rest of there life's. I can't understand how over weight people can consider themselves to be handicap. Why do we have an office for Women in N. Y. S. what the minority caucus all about?
I'm sick of this political correct, crap. I believe it's gone too far. We have a Constitution and a beautiful Bill of Rights.
People are suing MacDonald's for the hamburger that's making them fat. Just what is this Nation coming to?
No more Black, White, Hispanic, etc.. No more rich, poor, middle-class. No more short, tall, fat or skinny.
American's one and all. Same rights to each and everyone.
Amen,
Reverend Colin
posted on January 21, 2003 05:28:27 AM new
I am honestly considering the possibility that AA is designed to perpetuate strife.
It is perfectly designed to alienate the group of people who are finally willing to accept equality with black people.
How better to drive them away that to tell them? - "OK you can see the unfairness of how the blacks were treated? Now we are going to do the same thing to you."
Of all the black people at the college I know who have spoken to me about AA I see that NOT ONE of them has ever said it was something THEY needed. It is always something that was needed for my people or for the kids from Detroit. Nobody ever embraces it as their own because they know it carries a stigma of being tolerated not as black - but second rate. Who wants personaly accepted on those terms?
posted on January 21, 2003 06:56:12 AM new
I love satire too:<br>
This one is from: Michael Ramirez, California -- The Los Angeles Times.<br><img src=http://cagle.slate.msn.com/comics/updating/ramirez.gif>
posted on January 21, 2003 07:15:52 AM new
recheck your link to be sure it's correct. Otherwise it will work.
If it's a image use [img$]picaddresshere[/img$]
If it's a site use [url$]addresshere[/url$] Again leaving out the $ signs.
[ edited by Linda_K on Jan 21, 2003 07:39 AM ]
posted on January 21, 2003 07:22:47 AM new
posted on January 21, 2003 06:56:12 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I love satire too:<br>
This one is from: Michael Ramirez, California -- The Los Angeles Times.<br><img src=http://cagle.slate.msn.com/comics/updating/ramirez.gif>
leave off the <br>
instead of using < use [ on both ends of img [front and back]
don't add the src=
posted on January 21, 2003 07:31:45 AM new
Thanks to all for your help. I guess we all can get along after all. Nothing I enjoy more then a good debate with exceptional people.
BTW Helen. I know a little bit about everything... That makes me dangerous!!
Amen,
Reverend Colin
reverendcolin.com
posted on January 21, 2003 10:39:27 AM new
Helen,
I just received this in an e-mail. I've always been a Democrat but have moved to the middle of the road as I've grown older..and hopefully wiser. Thought you would enjoy it.
Amen,
Reverend Colin
A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. She prided herself on being a liberal Democrat while her father was a
rather staunch Republican.
One day she was challenging her father on his beliefs and his opposition to programs like welfare.
He stopped her and asked her how she was doing in school. She answered that she had a 4.0 GPA but it was really tough. She had to study all the time, never had time to go out and party and often went sleepless because all of the studying. She didn't have time for a boyfriend and didn't really have many college friends because of all her studying.
He then asked how her friend Mary, that was attending the same college, was doing. She replied that she was barely getting by.
She had a 2.0 GPA, never studied, was very popular on campus and was at parties all the time. She often wouldn't show up for classes because she was hung over.
He then asked his daughter why she didn't go to the Dean's office and ask why she couldn't take 1.0 off her 4.0 and give it to her friend who only had a 2.0. That way they would both have a 3.0 GPA.
She fired back, "That wouldn't be fair, I worked really hard for mine and my friend has done nothing."
After a moment of silence, her father replied,
"I guess you'll never vote Democrat again".
posted on January 21, 2003 11:43:51 AM new
That little story is used by so many Republicans when it really is comparing idiots to oranges.
It assumed the girl "earned' her 4.0, not got it by stealing from the 2.0's. Or got it because she was a 3.0 and contributed heavily to the school re-election fund.
Plus it refuses to take in account many other issues involved.
In other words, its a story used by one-dimensional, narrow-minded blowhards without a clue in the world....like Limbaugh and his ilk.
.................................................
We call them our heroes...but we pay them like chumps
posted on January 21, 2003 12:22:43 PM new
It's not really a story. It's a parable.
Why Couldn't someone earn a 4.0? I carried a 3.0, never had to work at it. I was lucky. It just came to me. I had a hunger for learning.
How could someone steal for a 2.0?
What other issues are there to be taken into consideration? It's a parable.
Throwing Limbaugh name into the ring is lame. It's like the Republicans blaming everything Liberal on Jesse Jackson. Both men have there faults, as we all do. You can't blame everything on one individual, religion, color, creed or political party. Life don't work that way. Come back with something original. Something truly from the heart. Not in anger.
