posted on February 2, 2003 12:48:15 PM newAs with LindaK, the genetics of mixing races was discussed in sex class as well as the dominant/dormant gene subjects. I found it fascinating and scientific. The problem this teacher made was inserting her opinion. She could have been fired for *promoting* such a thought as well.
Very well said. I also agree that the teacher got TOO personal when she gave her opinions...and said that "mixed race kids come to school not cleaned up", or however she said it. That was injecting bigotry, in my opinion. Anyway..I see no problem with the scientific aspects of teachers teaching. I also see no problem with discussing it in the same vein as dog genetics, nor do I see linkak dissing folks and comparing them to dogs. With that said..I think (IMHO)that the most beautiful children I have ever seen were those of mixed race. Absolutely gorgeous to look upon and pleasing to the eye. Maybe its a sign.
edited because I spelled something wrong, and also because Im following the flow of RT.
[ edited by hepburn101 on Feb 2, 2003 12:49 PM ]
posted on February 2, 2003 12:49:59 PM new
I believe I have, Helen. You're just not hearing it. I BELIEVE IN THE RIGHT OF CHOICE. To support/respect those who are okay with the 'blending' of the races, and to support/respect those who don't believe they should be blended. That's one of the things that is great about our country. [Waving flag here]
posted on February 2, 2003 01:09:27 PM new
Linda, As I said before, you have made your position clear and frankly right now, I would like to focus my thoughts on something that smells a bit sweeter.
posted on February 2, 2003 01:16:38 PM new
Linda, you may not agree with this, but your statement actually IS a racist remark! Racist remarks are not all derogatory in nature; rather, they are usually remarks that refer to race as an important factor in decision making; i.e. contracts, laws, regulations, what bathrooms this race can use and which drinking fountains that race can use, etc. That there is no difference between those things I just listed and your thoughts about racial purity may not make you decide that you are being racist, but it sure does leave that impression in everyone else's mind.
posted on February 2, 2003 01:33:27 PM new
What is wrong with someone prefering to procreate with their own race?
Races are special by many factors including, but not limited to: language, religion, music, cuisine, morals, values, superstitions, parenting styles, gender roles, holidays, games, sports, etc. It could go on and on. People are comfortable with those who live as they do and there is nothing wrong with that. Yes, it is racist. But as mentioned above, racism is not always derogatory.
It's these traits that distinguish people. This is NOT the same as separation. As the races mix, many of these attributes are lost. My children will never speak the language, their mother will never cook the traditional meals, they will never live as their dad's family lives. This doesn't mean that they CAN'T ever have any of these things but it means that I don't have the means to teach them. My MIL saw that as a loss and it is. It doesn't mean that their lives would suffer, it just means that they are missing out on what makes half of them special. Marrying a person of another culture does add and take away from the children's experience.
posted on February 2, 2003 01:40:44 PM newLoeffelman, 52, testified she was simply giving an honest opinion to a student who was working on a paper about interracial marriage for another class. She said she told the student she was "totally against" interracial marriage. She said she believed interracial couples shouldn't have children because "I don't want to see children teased for any reason."
My position is when this student , who obviously thought enough of her to approach her with the question, asked her opinion by...she has a right to give her honest opinion.
Then we got off on to the race issue. My position was that teachers are supposed to be there for information. It's not unusual for students to come to their teachers/leaders to get their views.
I'm not saying I agree with everything she is ACCUSED of doing. In another url the teacher states she doesn't see herself as a racist.
This all got started with HELEN went hystercial/balastic because I brought up the issue that I can understand her thinking this way. This issue HAS presented many problems for children. Less as time goes by...but still valid concerns.
And my mother, who was a nurse, saw this 'gene' issue pop up and destroy a family. And it hasn't been an isolated case. It CAN present a problem to some. So I support information. To those it doesn't make any difference to....fine. But the information should be out there so everyone can make their own decisions.
I also explained what I was taught in sex-ed [at the beginning of time] about genetics and tried to say I believe children deserve ALL information so make a better, more informed choice. Then, as usual, Helen again goes balistic. Why can't we just 'talk' around here?
Doesn't make one a racist. Believing a different color is not entitled to use the same facilities, go to the same schools, is NOT the same thing as something that will effect subsequence births in the upcoming generations.
If that's not any clearer...I can't explain it any different.
posted on February 2, 2003 01:52:03 PM new
Wendywins - THANK YOU...for saying what I've been trying to. I 100% agree.
What is wrong with someone prefering to procreate with their own race?
Races are special by many factors including, but not limited to: language, religion, music, cuisine, morals, values, superstitions, parenting styles, gender roles, holidays, games, sports, etc. It could go on and on. People are comfortable with those who live as they do and there is nothing wrong with that. Yes, it is racist. But as mentioned above, racism is not always derogatory.
It's these traits that distinguish people. This is NOT the same as separation.
Your above statements were *exactly* the concerns the parents of our DIL shared with us and our children. They are Shintos and were VERY concerned about ALL the issues you mentioned above. KISSES.. You said it so eloquently.
posted on February 2, 2003 01:58:43 PM new
This teacher knew EXACTLY what she was saying and who she was saying it to.
interracial couples should be "fixed" to prevent them from having children.
that is shocking, appalling, and without any regard to her position as a teacher.
That is not an opinion any more than saying "The slaves (MLK, Jews, etc fill in the blank) deserved what they got".
It is just plain nastiness with absolutely zero educational value.
posted on February 2, 2003 02:02:59 PM new
wendywins is exceedingly gracious under the circumstances and I have noticed that she is also very forgiving and a versatile writer too.
posted on February 2, 2003 02:10:19 PM new
Now, back to reality.
zoomin, You are exactly right. The educational system agreed and that teacher was fired. Unfortunately, a child of mixed race was in the class when she made the offensive remarks.
posted on February 2, 2003 02:36:59 PM new
Once the words are out, you can't get them back.
I hurt for those children!
Opinions are not the issue, this woman is entitled to her opinion.
This is about respect and blatant disregard for the students.
Glad she got fired that ignoramous!
(I was also happy they 'let-go' of the substitute teacher who told the kindergarten kids that there's no Santa ~ in many ways similar IMHO.)
Sex in the Schools?
Can't really blame the teacher for trying to hold the kids interest ~ anything to make kids more comfortable so they can ask the questions they *need* to ask. Sometimes we need to give a little lattitude when dealing with difficult subjects.
In my Junior High we had a really cool male teacher for Health. He was always willing to listen, incredibly receptive to the students. With regard to peer pressure, he once joked "if some guys *did it* even half as much as they claim to, they wouldn't be able to walk". It was lighthearted & factual.
Some of you would probably enjoy seeing a guy like that hanged.
I'd like to clone him & put one in every school.
Sex education is greatly a 'health education' issue as well.
AIDS awareness & birth control are just as scientific as a discussion on recessive / dominant genes.
School is for learning, no?
[ edited by zoomin on Feb 2, 2003 02:40 PM ]
posted on February 2, 2003 03:40:32 PM new
Wendywins said:
Races are special by many factors including, but not limited to: language, religion, music, cuisine, morals, values, superstitions, parenting styles, gender roles, holidays, games, sports, etc. It could go on and on. People are comfortable with those who live as they do and there is nothing wrong with that. Yes, it is racist. But as mentioned above, racism is not always derogatory.
Everything you mentioned is TAUGHT (i.e. cultural), it's not part of genetic/racial makeup.
posted on February 2, 2003 03:50:02 PM new
If the teacher indeed made those remarks in front of a mixed race child, whether or not her opinion was solicited, she got what she deserved. She should be fired for unprofessional conduct, if not abject stupidity.
posted on February 2, 2003 06:55:32 PM new
"Races are special by many factors including, but not limited to: language, religion, music, cuisine, morals, values, superstitions, parenting styles, gender roles, holidays, games, sports, etc. It could go on and on. People are comfortable with those who live as they do and there is nothing wrong with that. Yes, it is racist. But as mentioned above, racism is not always derogatory.
Everything you mentioned is TAUGHT (i.e. cultural), it's not part of genetic/racial makeup."
Of course these are taught. Everything we have ever acquired from birth is taught. It certainly is part of race~otherwise everyone would be taught every language, celebrate every holiday, etc. That's what makes each culture (and race) unique~the differences. These differences are defined by one's race.
If my children had a mother of Asian decent who was culturally taught, they could learn the language. Since I am not that, I cannot teach them.
posted on February 2, 2003 07:24:31 PM newIf my children had a mother of Asian decent who was culturally taught, they could learn the language. Since I am not that, I cannot teach them.
No, the sentence should read: Since I was not taught that, I cannot teach them.
You don't have to be of Asian descent to learn an Asian language.
Irene
[ edited by stockticker on Feb 2, 2003 07:25 PM ]
posted on February 2, 2003 07:38:15 PM new
"No, the sentence should read: Since I was not taught that, I cannot teach them.
You don't have to be of Asian descent to learn an Asian language.".
You are absolutely correct. My culture was not one that included any language other than English because that is the language I needed to survive. My hubby's language is so difficult now that my in-laws get a good chuckle when I try to pronounce even the basics~LOL!
I was taught elective Spanish in High School and was darn near fluent, then the time and idle bug bit and I have forgotten almost all of it. The culture I live in doesn't dictate a need for that language~yet!
It just goes to show that people in Japan, for example, don't have a need (necessarily) to learn German, etc. because it's not a part of their culture, race.
posted on February 2, 2003 08:02:34 PM new
The purpose of language is to communicate. If you don't need to learn another language, it's not because of your culture, it's because you have no need to communicate with someone who doesn't speak your language or no need/desire to learn something that is only available to be read in another language.
I remember when I lived in Montreal in the 1970s. I was surprised to find out that many of the textbooks for business courses at the local French universary were in English. Given the separatist movement at that time and resentment against the English, you can imagine that it certainly wasn't by choice. There simply weren't business textbooks relevant to the North American business environment available in French.
Irene
posted on February 2, 2003 08:37:12 PM new
Good luck stockticker. I can't even begin to tell you where to begin explaining to these fine people the difference between race, culture, nationality etc.. I could swear some of this is right off a Norman Lear script.
posted on February 2, 2003 09:05:25 PM new
Thank you Reamond. Yes, I have hurriedly used the words "race" and "culture" interchangably. They are markedly different.
Instead of editing all my posts, I hope this board is intelligent enough to understand the gist.
Summary: I have no problem with people only marrying within their race or choosing to go outside of their race. It's called tolerance and I believe people can make their own decisions in this regard.
As far as the teacher is concerned: If a student "consults" her, even privately, her job is to inspire thought. She should have told the student that some people choose to marry within their race and give some pros of that. Then she should mention that others choose to marry outside of their race and give some examples of it. She should steer the student to come up with their own conclusion, despite her personal opinion.
posted on February 2, 2003 09:12:37 PM new
The teacher that was fired...
Grace Bingham, 32, a parent of a mixed-race student, testified that Loeffelman also told her in a phone call that mixed-race students often came to class unkempt, and that interracial couples should be "fixed" to prevent them from having children.
"She said that biracial children should not exist, and that's what my son believes now," said Bingham, whose 14-year-old son, Billy, was in Loeffelman's class.
posted on February 2, 2003 10:39:13 PM new
I agree with Hepburn. In my opinion, the most beautiful women are of mixed race. As a white guy, I find pure white, black, Asian, and Latina women attractive. But when the races mix, very good things happen like Halle Berry and Jolene Blalock! (from Enterprise tv show).
