"Under the draft, the government could declare individuals, not just groups, “foreign powers” subject to clandestine surveillance under looser standards than would apply in criminal cases, and it would permit such surveillance against a U.S. citizen suspected of spying for a foreign power, even if the alleged suspicious conduct was not itself criminal."
"The Jan. 9 document, labeled “confidential — not for distribution” and titled the Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003, was posted on the Internet by the Center for Public Integrity, a Washington-based nonprofit organization. Civil liberties advocates immediately expressed alarm about the draft. “There are some truly breathtaking provisions here. In some respects it is bolder even than the Patriot Act,” said Jim Dempsey of the Center for Democracy and Technology, a nonprofit organization based in Washington. “It raises a wide range of very troubling questions that deserve a lot of thoughtful debate and attention,” said David Cole, a Georgetown University law professor."
So -
This was supposed to be done in SECRET! Behind our backs and where we couldn't see them do it! SECRET LAWS BEING PASSED EXPANDING POWERS BREAKING THE US CONSTITTUION FURTHER.
The American government has now declared a State of War between it and the People of the United States of America. Bush is about to declare a Dictatorship and Martial Law with Presidential elections suspended "until the War on Terror ends." How far does this have to go before you get the message?
posted on February 9, 2003 08:59:18 AM new"The proposed law, he adds, “would radically expand law enforcement and intelligence gathering authorities, reduce or eliminate judicial oversight over surveillance, authorize secret arrests, create a DNA database based on unchecked executive ‘suspicion,’ create new death penalties, and even seek to take American citizenship away from persons who belong to or support disfavored political groups.”
Congressional aides said they had not been consulted by the Justice Department on the development of such a bill. However, several aides have said they considered it likely that the Bush administration would propose some changes this year.
Rep. John Conyers of Michigan, top Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee, said the legislation "turns the Bill of Rights completely on its head."
"This draft bill constitutes yet another egregious blow to our citizens' civil liberties," Conyers said. "Among other things, the Bush administration now wants to imprison suspects before they are tried and create DNA databases of lawful residents who have committed no crime."
posted on February 9, 2003 11:25:50 AM new
Secret Laws -- Secret arrests - - Secret imprisonment - - Secret trials - - Expanded DEATH penalties - - Bill of Rights thrown out -- WITH THIS DOCUMENT, THE NAZI FOURTH REICH IS HERE IN AMERICA RIGHT NOW!
posted on February 9, 2003 03:41:03 PM new
[img src=http://www.imgmag.org/images/cyoung67/posters/Stalin_Lenin_jk.jpg]
Amen,
Reverend Colin
one more time
[ edited by colin on Feb 9, 2003 03:41 PM ]
[ edited by colin on Feb 9, 2003 03:43 PM ]
[ edited by colin on Feb 9, 2003 03:45 PM ]
Colin - just do this but take out the $ and leave no spaces.
[img$]yourpicturelocationhere[/img$]
start with the http: folling the ]
Okay let's see if this works or not
Edited to remove pic as I can't resize it on this unit. Sorry...wasn't aware it was presenting a reading problem for some.
According to the WSJ when they checked the background of the organizers of the anti-war protest in Washington DC they were Stalinists and Socialists.
[ edited by Linda_K on Feb 9, 2003 05:44 PM ]
posted on February 9, 2003 05:10:12 PM new
I have to agree with Colin, totalitarianism
is Anti American. The stifling of open dicussion, which is the cornerstone of democracy, was certainly exhibited in the Stalinist era USSR.
Linda, it worked, but the image needs to be
resized. The dreaded "scroll thingy".
tried to fix need to scroll in my post
{i]You have the right to an informed opinion[/i]
-Harlan Ellison
[ edited by snowyegret on Feb 9, 2003 05:12 PM ]
posted on February 9, 2003 05:52:25 PM new
>I have to agree with Colin, totalitarianism is Anti American.
People here in the United States often wonder just how these people got themselves into such a mess with dictators running totalitarian regeimes. HOw did the German people ever let themselves be fooled by Adolph Hitler? How could the Russian people not have the common sense to recongnize what a monster Stalin was? And on and on to Saddam Hussein today.
Some Americans have bothered to find out.
Of those, they are alarmed by what Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Ashcroft are doing to this country of ours.
Of course, Adolph Hitler and Joesph Stalin had their staunch supporters. That's how they managed to get into power and to stay there.
Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Ashcoft have theirs as well and they are every bit as determined to keep them there.
posted on February 10, 2003 03:41:32 AM new
There was great dissent towards the government of Germany after the first world war. The dissent was exasperated by the newly formed German Communist.
Thing's were very bad. Inflation on to Hyperinflation. Banks began to collapse and close.
It allowed one little man the opportunity to tell the masses what they wanted to hear. Who will that be this time.
Open honest dissent is very important to our way of government. A Democracy.
I see things I don't like and try to change them but I'm still 100 percent American and proud of it.
You liberals have to overcome the paranoia before you can make any changes. Your bleeding hearts have and are taxing the American people to death. Being poor, a druggie or just a scumbag that thinks the government owes them a living has to be a thing of the past.
The American people are way ahead of you. They are sick of it. If the majority were truly against the war in Iraq. We wouldn't be going.
These are tough times. We are under attack from a large conglomerate of religious zealots. Militant Moslems from the East and the Christian Right and liberals here at home. Tough measures may have to be installed.
Amen,
Reverend Colin
Soon to be Commandant to Stalag Goodtime.
posted on February 10, 2003 12:31:43 PM new
Colin, I'm not sure of just what your bigotry towards Liberals is. I think that if you took the time to explain to us just what your defintion of a Liberal is, you'd find out that you are wrong. Just as if you tried to explain your defintion of Conservative on here.
posted on February 10, 2003 05:20:55 PM new
Borillar,
In no particular order, rhyme or reason.
I've had to see the bleeding heart liberals and what they've done for our country.
Prison reform. what a joke. Prison is not a place to reform. It is and should be a punishment. They have better benefits then most of the middle and upper middle class.
Welfare. It was supposed to be a little help to get someone over a difficult time. It's become a way of like. Liberals
Always b*tching about the government. We are the government. You, me all of us.
More money for the poor Heroin and other drug Addicts. Give me a break. "It's a sickness" I need another break.
Affirmative Action. What a joke. I've seen this up close and personal. If propagates hatred and mistrust. It makes an unfair playing field. It's not EQUAL RIGHTS.
The truth is we need liberals we need middle of the road. We need those to the right but we don't need those to the far right or left.
Liberal has become a bad word lately. I, as do many, think the Socialist have taken over the once proud title. Hiding behind it. Trying to look like just another voice of the Democrats.
I believe the liberal's have taken the sense out of Common Sense. They have tunnel vision when it comes to what they believe. They have no problem with changing what someone has written or said to make it fit their purpose.
It's probably my mistake in thinking this but I can tell you I am not alone. Oh on Abortion. I believe in the women's right but have reservations.
There's more but I've got other things to do this evening. maybe get ready for my commision to Commandant.
BTW I don't consider myself a Conservative. If you want to see just wher I stand visit my website.
http://www.reverendcolin.com
Don't worry.......no spyware.....
Remember You asked.
Amen,
Reverend Colin
[ edited by colin on Feb 10, 2003 05:25 PM ]
posted on February 10, 2003 09:59:43 PM new
>Don't worry.......no spyware.....
Oh, please. I'm not paranoid.
Colin, you did write a lot of opinion, but believe it or not, you still didn't answer the question. What is your definition of a Liberal? You answered with what you thought were problems supposedly associated with Liberalism and Liberals; however, the supposed problems with the label does not define it.
And yes, I glanced over your web site. I am happy to see that I was right and that you are not a real reverand; i.e. no formal education. You simply call yourself one -- you are self-ordained. You have a hole in your thoughts that needs to be filled.
Here's something for you to chew on, Colin: Wisdom = Knowledge + Experience. Q. How do you pass Wisdom from one person to another through a book?
posted on February 11, 2003 04:23:54 AM new
Borillar,
My definition of a Liberalist: A wolf in Sheep's clothing. A Socialist or Communist trying to look like a Democrat.
As far as being a real Reverend. I was ordained (took 5 minutes over the computer) through the Universal Life Church on Thursday, April eleven, 2002 and as it states on my website: (it took me a long time to come to my calling) I'm here for you. Chances are I know a bit more of life then most "properly ordained" men and women of the cloth.
I'm happy that your happy that I've got a hole..in my thought.
Your always throwing logic into the equation. Your lacking very much in yours. All you use is self righteous bits and pieces of opinion and telling everybody that's logic. You must remember Borillar, Opinions are like A**holes. Everyone's got one.
As far as this statement of yours:
Here's something for you to chew on, Colin: Wisdom = Knowledge + Experience. Q. How do you pass Wisdom from one person to another through a book?
I've a fair education and few can beat me on experience. I don't know Borillar, how do you pass Wisdom from one person to another? Das Kapital?
I disagree.
Amen,
Reverend Colin
A new religion for the Fourth Reich???
posted on February 11, 2003 12:31:45 PM new
Colin
You may wish for welfare to go away. But those Neo-Conservative so near to your pea-picking little heart don't. It is one of their biggest sources of free money. A very small percentage ever makes it to the ones who need it the most. The rest is sucked up by "programs". Like the Welfare to Work program. MacDonalds get paid millions to "train" workers. Workers are "trained" to works at MacDonald's for six months. After six months, the worker is considered "trained" and the funding stops. Therefore the "trained" worker is fired and a new "trainee" is hired and the funding continues. The "trained" worker is unable to find work in their "trained" speciality because all the other Fast Food places are running the same scam. Fast Food is a big contributor to the Republican Party and wrote this program.
And if it weren't for welfare, where would all your HEROES get their interest free loans, and government grants. Social welfare costs each and every america 32 cents a day.....corporate welfare cost every american $1.72 a day. Immensly more money is lost to defaulting on those low-interest government loans to corporations than all the social welfare fraud there ever was since its conception.
And there are hundreds of similar facts, but I hope you get the idea. Welfare is not a bad system, it is a broken system. It became a easy source of money to be stolen by the rich through the creation of "programs"
.................................................
Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, Firemen, Police. We call them our heroes...but we pay them like chumps
posted on February 11, 2003 12:34:31 PM new
Oh, Goodey! Someone to play with!
>My definition of a Liberalist: A wolf in Sheep's clothing. A Socialist or Communist trying to look like a Democrat.
People here are pretty sensitive about labeling and being labeled. I would guess that the most sensitive parts lies in either not being labeled or at least being labeled correctly. Before I continue, I thought that I should preface that.
That being the case, it would be WISE of you to go do some research into what those labels really entail. You do have Liberals on here and you are being extremely insulting to them, I wouldn't doubt. That they have been kind enough to ignore your improper mislabeling of them to date shows just how magnanimous that they are. I further suspect that your mislabeling them won't be tolerated for too much longer.
>Your always throwing logic into the equation. Your lacking very much in yours.
A non-sequitur, reverend? Shame!
>All you use is self righteous bits and pieces of opinion and telling everybody that's logic.
Example, please.
>I don't know Borillar, how do you pass Wisdom from one person to another?
>tisk<, >tisk<, reverend! You can't cheat here. You'll have to discover the answers - and their implications for yourself. I'll just tell you that Wisdom is paid for.
posted on February 11, 2003 01:16:09 PM new
Borillar,
I can see that you can read my post but you seem to lack Comprehension skills.
As far as someone to play with. We arn't playing on the same field. Your at a disavantage.
You asked me my definaition of a Liberal. That's it. Sorry if I hurt any feelings. Again you may not have Comprehened what I wrote.
My thoughts on your use of "logic" you state is a non sequitur (there is no dash between the word). Is just your opinion or it makes no sense. That would be non sequitur. If it is a non sequitur, why would your next question be "Example, please".
Wisdom isn't paid for, It's learned through trial and error, Good times and bad. Like the old saying goes.
"We should be careful to get out of an experience only the wisdom that is in it--and stop there; lest we be like the cat that sits down on a hot stove lid. She will never sit on a hot stove lid again--and that is well; but also she will never sit down on a cold one anymore."
Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)
posted on February 11, 2003 11:14:58 PM new
Colin, you are the LAST person on here to go about trying to correct the grammar in my posts:
>As far as someone to play with. We arn't playing on the same field.
NOT "arn't" but "aren't"
>Your at a disavantage.
NOT "your" but "you're"; as in 'you are'.
>You asked me my definaition of a Liberal.
NOT "definaition" but "definition"
>Again you may not have Comprehened what I wrote.
NOT "Comprehened" but "comprehend"
And so forth. My point isn't to laugh at you, it is that you need to NOT point out other poster's spelling errors on here; especially when your own post is seriously full of errors. Everyone makes crappy posts from time to time. What is important is to read it and to understand it, in my opinion.
>Wisdom isn't paid for, It's learned through trial and error, Good times and bad.
Ummm . . . closer, sorta. Keep going in that direction. It's a learning process.
posted on February 12, 2003 04:09:05 AM new
If Grammer and Spelling are the only problems you found with my last post. I feel I've made my point.
Amen,
Reverend Colin
