posted on February 15, 2003 11:47:27 AM new
There are only a few countries that are "against" the US and its allies going into Iraq. Saudi Arabia and Iran, as well as Kuwait will fall of their own weight once a democracy is installed in Iraq.
There are some people that are always paralyzed by fear. We have been attacked and they want to do nothing. Iraq has been ordered to disarm, they don't, we should do nothing (which is the same as doing what we have been doing for 12 years- "inspecting". There is a religion that preaches each and every day to kill jews, Americans, infidels, and we should do nothing. There are islamic terrorists groups that purposely murder innocent civilians day in and day out and we should do nothing. If most people felt this way we would all be speaking German and living in a facsist state.
But the good thing is that people that are paralyzed with fear are few. They are few because they can not have children because they don't have sex for fear of what might happen.
posted on February 15, 2003 11:53:59 AM new
::Well that gave me a good laugh. Reamond and his christian based religion? You obviously haven't read reamond's posts for too long. ::
I was referring more to the christian based government that our one step from fundamentalist president would endorse more so than reffeing to Reamonds beliefs
::neonmania - You're going to believe what you want. So am I. You asked, I answered. No use continuing to debate/argue. ::
I'm actually just wondering is there actual proof that the Saudi Government endorses and supports terrorism or are we going on mild beliefs fanned by the media?
As for Saddam - let me clarify my position. He s a first class nutcase. He is as dngerous as it comes and absolutely shoud be removed as leader. I doubt that you will find anyone who disagrees. The debate is whether we wage war against a nation based on the actions of a man? We don't need to bomb Iraq, we need get rid of it's leader. Whether that is thru the funding of a military coup or a surgical assisanation is up for grabs but Saddam will not suffer the death of his people in a war. and it is him, not his people that we must deal with.
As for terrorists... waging a war against Iraq will only help to create more. It will do nothing to eliminate them. The bodies of dead islamic women and chidren killed at the hands of "evil american" will be used to further inflame fundamentalists.
If Osama is the strategist we think him to be, the US need not worry about homeland attacks. He will use our actions in Iraq to further distance us from the world as his followers launch attacks on our aliies making it more and more difficult for leadership to support the US while keeping the support of their own people.
posted on February 15, 2003 12:01:34 PM new
Yeah neo, middle east governments and institutions will stand in line and admit or leave an easy evidence trail of their involvment in terrorism. Yup. Just ask the easter bunny, that what he says.
That little murderous weasel Arafat has denied for years that he or his gang have any involvment in terrorism. BUT THEN THE ISRAELI ARMY TAKES HIS OFFICE OVER AND FINDS UNDENIABLE EVIDENCE OF HIS DIRECT INVOLVMENT.
The weasel Arafat weeps over the killing of innocent civilians for the TV cameras and then goes into his office and orders more and pays for the explosives with money he gets from France and Germany.
posted on February 15, 2003 12:01:47 PM new
::I believe it was you who challenged me [not positive though] on the 'many' places I stated I'd read them [Muslim/Islam] stating their intent was to destroy us, our country and the Jews. ::
Not me. Although I do acknowledge hat Osama has stated these views, I have never seen proof that it is a core belief of Islam.
::Look now...how bin Laden has called on all Muslims to support Saddam. hmmmmmm and many believe they are enemies. I don't. I believe their belief in the call of their religion unites them in many ways.::
Placing Bin Laden in the position of spokesperson for Islam is like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson being the Spokepeople people for Christianity. The extreme does not speak for the masses.
posted on February 15, 2003 12:07:54 PM new
The muslim masses in the middle east are extremists or are indirectly supporting terrorists.
bin Laden isn't the only person in the middle east calling for the death of jews, the destruction of Israel, and killing Americans.
When Pat Robertson or Falwell say anything, no one really does anything, they have little or no power in the US or over US policy. The Imams and terrorist groups are the de-facto government in much of the middle east, and if not the de-facto government, they have more popular support than the government.
posted on February 15, 2003 12:09:32 PM new
neonmania "Neither Islam nor Saudi Arabia promotes hatred "
I believe your very wrong on this.
Saddam is and has been a terrorist for years. Read up. Where are you getting your information? Saudi Arabia is a very rich nation and they spend a lot of money backing their religious zealots. AKA Terrorist.
posted on February 15, 2003 12:27:53 PM new
neonmania - Not me. Although I do acknowledge hat Osama has stated these views, I have never seen proof that it is a core belief of Islam. Okay sorry...someone else.
'seen proof'. What I've taken as my proof, what has made me believe this to be true is the many Muslim Clerics that have said it themselves. That's what I meant with the challenge I've had for a long time with Borillar.
Be it right or wrong...when people who are of no faith or of a different faith hear Muslim Clerics validating these 'threats' I believe them to be how they preceive the teachings of their faith. Just as I do of those statements from Falwell, etc. But in other ways it's not the same to me as with Falwall, etc. As I see them in total disagreement with the beliefs of other religions, but not calling for the deaths or destruction of others. Conversion vs. forced. Hope that is a little clearer.
posted on February 15, 2003 12:38:55 PM new
::neonmania "Neither Islam nor Saudi Arabia promotes hatred "
I believe your very wrong on this. ::
OK let me clarify because I am partially wrong. There is defiantely an Islamic endorsement of hate when it comes to Jews. Even I find the statement in the Koran that when Jesus comes he will not only kill the antichrist but 70,000 jews along with him a little extreme.
I think when it comes to other religions outside of Islam and Judaism most confuse indifference with hatred. Muslims do not HATE christians, they look at them much as we do cultists. They are not neccessarily evil, they just are not right
posted on February 15, 2003 12:49:30 PM new
Talk about head in the sand. Have you ever heard of a country called the Sudan ?
The muslim government is murdering christians by the thousands there.
Did you see what happened at the Miss World contest in Africa ? They had top move it due to muslim violence.
Now where did all these hate filled and murderous Islamicists come from in Africa, and how did they come into power ? It came form the radical Mosques and Imama that Saudi Arabia built and finances.
Saudi Arabia not only builds the mosques and provides the radical Imam, it sends money to support and feed the converts in the poor towns and villages. This is where the 19th hi-jacker came from.
These radical islamists have been spreading their filthy hate and murder via their religion throughout the world for at least 2 decades.
posted on February 15, 2003 11:40:29 PM newBorillar - You and I have been down this road before. Again I will ask you to show me a Christian minister or a whole group of religious people who are calling for the death of those who are not followers of their religion. You never did. Maybe you have one now?
You might want to try visiting Idaho. Or maybe not. It is the home of several fundamentalist Christian sects that openly preach white supreamcy from the pulpit, and how jews, blacks, other non-white people, and generally anybody they don't like would do best to vacate the country (if they can't be polite enough to die first). Before they passed away, my aunt & uncle moved to Idaho for his health (his lungs couldn't take the smog down here anymore). Visiting him was always an interesting experience...they lived in the Couer d'Laine area, and they are also several compounds in that region where white supremacists gather & which are openly guarded at the gates by gun-toting members.
edited for UBB
Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
[ edited by bunnicula on Feb 15, 2003 11:58 PM ]
posted on February 16, 2003 02:03:47 AM new
There is a big difference between a radical christian group in the US and a radical muslim group in the middle east.
In the US, if such a group were to pose a real threat to life limb or property, they are arrested and prosecuted.
In the middle east if such a group poses a real threat to life limb or property, they receive overt or covert support from the government and become an action arm for their nation's foreign policy.
To compare fundementalist christian activites to those of radical islam doesn't pass the laugh test.
