gravid
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posted on February 18, 2003 04:58:41 PM new
If he's "wins" another election I can see him leading the nation in prayer next state of the union.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=544&ncid=703&e=3&u=/ap/20030218/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_faith
And y'all better get on your knees folks.
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kraftdinner
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posted on February 18, 2003 05:26:29 PM new
If God is backing you, it adds more credibility to your plight. 
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Borillar
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posted on February 18, 2003 05:30:01 PM new
"I welcome faith to help solve the nation's deepest problems," Bush told a convention of religious broadcasters last week.
There you go. I'd rather we use smarts and highly educated, intelligent, experieced people to run this nation, not faith that "it'll all work out if we pray enough" kind of attitude.
Barry Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, said Bush speeches have started sounding "more and more like a sermon in a church" and risk alienating significant chunks of his constituency.
"When presidents start to become theologians on a regular basis, they begin to exclude people from their audience," Lynn said.
NO! LET BUSH TALK *MORE* ABOUT RELIGION -- PLEASE!
[ edited by Borillar on Feb 18, 2003 05:30 PM ]
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gravid
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posted on February 18, 2003 06:22:02 PM new
Hitler sent his army off to Russia without their best winter gear becasue his astrologer told him it would be a mild winter.
When leaders look to the supernatural for direction the little guys suffer.
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Helenjw
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posted on February 18, 2003 06:27:29 PM new
Oh my! We'll be having holy wars next.
Helen
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gravid
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posted on February 18, 2003 07:25:46 PM new
You mean from both sides?
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Helenjw
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posted on February 18, 2003 07:27:08 PM new
LOL
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Linda_K
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posted on February 18, 2003 09:09:05 PM new
There he goes again. Here's our president, the president of our land of religious liberty, going out there and making his point by citing Saint Paul's letter to the Ephesians.
"Ephesians says we should speak the truth with our neighbors for we are members one of another," the president said. "I believe that. I think that is the single most important political insight, or social insight, in the Bible. And I think it is what should drive us as we behave together."
Then he got to the compassionate God-talk. "Is my destiny caught up in yours?" he asked. "Are we part of the same family of God? It's not enough to say we are all equal in the eyes of God. We are all also connected in the eyes of God." And the crowd applauded.
Does it bother you that our president talks that way? If it does, consider this: The speech I just quoted was not given by President Bush. It was given at Washington's Metropolitan Baptist Church in December 1997 by a president named William Jefferson Clinton.
Lord knows, I don't have a problem with criticizing George W. Bush. But can we please stop pretending that Bush's regular invocations of the Almighty make him some sort of strange religious fanatic? In how he speaks of God, Bush is much more typically presidential than he is painted, especially by our friends abroad.
[Taken from the WashingtonPost]
[ edited by Linda_K on Feb 18, 2003 09:11 PM ]
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bunnicula
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posted on February 18, 2003 11:46:20 PM new
The difference being, Clinton wasn't pushing us into a war while making religious quotes...
Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
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Linda_K
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posted on February 18, 2003 11:55:30 PM new
bunni - Your point is understood. Althought Clinton, a professed Christian, did take us to war with Iraq in 1998. You think he wasn't praying then? 
That's not what I'm saying. People have been slamming Bush for his religious beliefs since he took office. My point was to say I see that as being hypocritical when Clinton holds/held these same religious beliefs as president. As have MANY of our presidents. Some who also have led us into wars.
[ edited by Linda_K on Feb 18, 2003 11:58 PM ]
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gravid
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posted on February 19, 2003 12:44:05 AM new
I don't want ANY of them flapping their mouth about religion on the job.
If the President is obsessed with religion to the point he can't consider a problem without framing it in terms of his belief he should be a preacher not a politician.
If you were working in an office with a dozen different religions and the boss was a raving bible thumper and imposed his faith on every conversation you'd want him to keep it at home because THAT'S NOT WHY YOU'RE AT WORK.
If a person has priciples or morals he can exercise them by his actions and refrain from
making a mess of himself explaining how they attach to a his religion.
The implied message is always exclusionary - I have a real reason for being moral - but if you aren't motivated by the same beliefs we can't trust you to do right.
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Linda_K
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posted on February 19, 2003 01:59:04 AM new
gravid - I don't want ANY of them flapping their mouth about religion on the job. Understood you don't like it. No problem. But they have their right to do so....ALL of them....all of us. To my knowledge we've never had a agnostic or atheist president....so I'd bet at one time or another they all have made references to their beliefs. Granted....some more than others.
No one has ever tried to censor any president's speeches, even those that include references to their God...that I'm aware of. If enough find it so offensive, they won't vote for him again.
But I do think you might be overlooking the fact that almost 86% of Americans believe in a [b]God[b].
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krs
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posted on February 19, 2003 02:02:55 AM new
Some born again drunken womanizing drug users may have a genuine faith, but it's hard to accept when he takes a glee from killing another human being as bush exhibited when asked what he thought a condemned convict might ask him as governor before her execution. In an unforgetable and very revealing moment of a national news interview he answered with a sick little smile and giggle "Please don't kill me", and then laughed.
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Linda_K
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posted on February 19, 2003 02:18:39 AM new
hmmmm This probably means that you won't be voting for him next time? Like you didn't last time? 
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krs
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posted on February 19, 2003 02:38:32 AM new
This means that his festering profession of faith is hypocrisy. Practically everytime he speaks he claims that Jesus Christ changed his life and is the most important person in his life while he continues to plot the slaughter of a nation of people. This planned action is not a war it's genocide, plain and simple. A Christian who would participate in such a thing? Who would precipitate it and devote his energies toward creating an opportunity to justify such killing? Impossible. No other president has contemplated such a thing much less worked to bring it about. Not one of them acted with such a total disregard for human life, and not one of them professed his faith so loudly. By that this one is a liar, and that only denies his statements of faith the more.
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gravid
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posted on February 19, 2003 04:35:26 AM new
As I said and KRS amplified - show me your faith by how you live instead of grand statements of piety.
Yes 85+% of the people may believe in god but does that mean we want a religious state?
If we get another Catholic President does that mean the direction of the nation becomes Catholic and abortion will be stopped or if we get a Jewish President we'll all go Kosher?
Most Catholics would be horrified to have the state make them do what their church requires as a matter of law for example. Very few Americans although professing a belief want their priest or minister running their lives.
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Linda_K
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posted on February 19, 2003 08:34:59 AM new
but does that mean we want a religious state?
No, of course it doesn't. That's not what I was implying. But rather that most all our Presidents have had a belief in God. And that I don't find it unusual that in times like these they turn even more to their faith. I've never known a religious person who hasn't done this. That's what I'm saying and why I posted trying to show that even Clinton turned to his faith with dealing with his concerns of running our government or using it to guide is decisions.
As far as a Catholic president and abortion go, I'm sure if one ever runs, that question will be well asked. There are some Catholics that are pro-abortion. I remember when J. Kennedy was running for president, his religion was a VERY big concern to many and it was discussed a lot before his election and, of course, at that time had nothing to do with abortion.
gravid, I do understand your concerns. I'm just trying to say I don't see it as being the problem you do.
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gravid
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posted on February 19, 2003 11:50:23 AM new
OK - I can respect that.
I've always assumed if there was any problem visible we probably don't know the half of it. An attitude that has served me pretty well with sneaky slimy relatives for example. But if you are less suspicious I have to admire your personality tending to kindness. I admit I have a problem with trust.
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Borillar
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posted on February 19, 2003 12:29:02 PM new
. . .but it's hard to accept when he takes a glee from killing another human being as bush exhibited when asked what he thought a condemned convict might ask him as governor before her execution. In an unforgetable and very revealing moment of a national news interview he answered with a sick little smile and giggle "Please don't kill me", and then laughed."
KRS, I realize that this must have been many years ago, but is there any chance that you could recall what network that you saw this on? I want to track down this interview if possible so that I can distribute it. It shows just what a sick son-of-a-b1tch he really is and the kind of person that we have running this country. I can't imagine any comment made by him that would infuriate more people than this one you talked about. I just need some clues as to where to start my search for it. Thanks.
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rawbunzel
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posted on February 19, 2003 12:34:38 PM new
Here is one reference to the statement by Bush.
http://www.cpa.org.au/garchve2/992cult.html
Just the first one that came up under a Google search. There's more.
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rawbunzel
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posted on February 19, 2003 12:38:37 PM new
http://www.geocities.com/northstarzone/BUSHKILL.html
http://www.texecutions.com/
A couple more.
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rawbunzel
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posted on February 19, 2003 12:43:16 PM new
Unfortunatly there is no link to the original article in Talk Magazine[that I can find] and one of the web sites claim he was mocking a different death row prisoner[Betty Something].So , I do not know how reliable these are.
[ edited by rawbunzel on Feb 19, 2003 12:48 PM ]
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Linda_K
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posted on February 19, 2003 12:57:23 PM new
gravid - Thank you. An attitude that has served me pretty well. I can understand that, for sure. That's how we all form our opinions on most things in life....by our own personal life experiences/observations.
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Linda_K
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posted on February 19, 2003 01:27:36 PM new
In 1983, Tucker and her boyfriend, Daniel Ryan Garrett, plunged a pickax at least 20 times into the bodies of Jerry Lynn Dean and Deborah Thornton. Tucker was taped saying the killings enthralled her to the point of sexual ecstasy.
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Helenjw
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posted on February 19, 2003 02:15:39 PM new
I have known people with a strong religious background who call themselves Christians and have the moral integrity of a cipher and I have known people of outstanding moral integrity who are agnostics or atheists. The question that is being considered, whether Bush is really religious or is just using religion for political reasons cannot be determined based on his personal history, however unseemly that may be.
Several authors of Bush studies comment on the possible role of religion in the Bush administration in the following article, "Bush's Messiah Complex".
Helen
http://www.progressive.org/feb03/comm0203.html
[ edited by Helenjw on Feb 19, 2003 03:17 PM ]
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colin
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posted on February 19, 2003 02:21:18 PM new
After much thought and all the urging of the board members, especially Borilla Austbound and others. I've decided to throw my hat (cap, crown, lid, chapeau, do rag, helmet, fez, beret or whatever) into the ring.
Being a Reverend, I intend that everyone will convert to MY RELIGION.
I think I will like that.
I believe it's possible I'll be able to make a good living for the next year and a half, using public monies to run a fun time campaign for the betterment of me and those around me.
Now that I have stated this I expect to be quoted often and have my grammar scrutinized.
Of course I'll need your help now in finding a good campaign slogan.
Amen,
Reverend Colin
Rt. 67 cycle
http://www.rt67cycle.com
Reverend Colin
http://www.reverendcolin.com
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austbounty
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posted on February 19, 2003 03:41:05 PM new
Has Bush ever heard of:
Let he without sin cast the first stone, or
Or
It’s harder for a rich man to enter the kingdom of god…
Weather Bush is or is not a ‘TRUE’ believer; CONSTANT and exclusive Judeo-Christian expressions will and do have a tendency to alienate those who do not embrace that religion; mainly those of other religions and especially Muslims at this time.
Don’t you think he’s smart enough to know that.
Given that he IS smart enough to know that; it is ‘possible’ that his INTENT is in part to aggravate politicly-extreme Muslim dominated nations to react, and thereby giving him diplomatic justification to attack such nations. Further to force 'American' Muslims, through social pressure/unacceptance, to withdraw from the public eye and thereby lessen their political pressure/voce.
Like it or Not, Bush IS making this a religious war.
The war is meant to be based on breaches of UN resolution re WOMD in Iraq.
Sure something must be done with Iraq’s leadership but,
Bush’s motivations for attack are very cloudy, and based on history of America’s involvement in the region (and longer UK history) ‘we’ are unable to view motivation for war without some reservations.
ps.
can someone explain to me what colin just said.
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neonmania
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posted on February 19, 2003 03:52:02 PM new
Aust - Colin has just announced that he is the new Pat Robertson of the RT. He is taking contributions to pay for him and his f(r)iends to live a closeted life of sin and debauchery all without paying sales or room tax thanks to his newly established tax exempt status.
During this time he will continue to spout his convertative ramblings as a clever cover for it all.
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colin
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posted on February 19, 2003 04:08:37 PM new
Thank you neonmania. I think you covered it well.
Now...Who's ready for a gooood time.
Amen,
Let the party begain,
Reverend Colin
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ijusthaveit
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posted on February 19, 2003 04:12:46 PM new
Funny how "Every man finds God in a Foxhole".Liberals you don't love or believe in God,but you buy into every conspiracy theory out there.Case in point read the last testament you don't think there is a God,think agian.
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