antiquary
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posted on March 7, 2003 03:04:57 PM new
War by soundbyte.
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Linda_K
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posted on March 7, 2003 03:36:33 PM new
profe - dishonerable discharge who 'dares' opine. You're making a lot of assumptions there prof. I never said that. I said if he is whinning about how much he disagrees with what his country is doing...then he should get out of the service. To my knowledge the only way that could happen is to go AWOL or ask for a discharge. Since it wouldn't be a medical discharge, unless tied to mental or physical problems, he probably knows he'd have to take a dishonorable discharge. I NEVER said he should be dishonorably discharged BECAUSE of his statement. There's a BIG difference.
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Linda_K
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posted on March 7, 2003 03:48:44 PM new
rawbunzel Even though I think that people that think like you are anti-American for wanting to squelch differing views ...after all what is more American than questioning the governement.
Calling me anti-american rolls off my back...because I know it's not true. Wanting to squelch differing views? No one's squelching your views. You and everyone else here has stated their views. Because one disagrees with the same views, can't be called squelching them. It's stating disagreement with those views.
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Helenjw
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posted on March 7, 2003 04:35:40 PM new
Rawbunzel,
I found a transcript of that fellow's statement to 60 minutes. It's very sad.
This is a very honorable fellow.
He had reservations about the war but then he also says he thinks it is the only option we have to fight terrorism, and he leaves no doubt when asked his thoughts about his country: "I can sum that up real easy: Every time the American flag goes up, I cry. Every time. I salute and tears go down my eyes every time. My country. No matter what happens, it will always be my country."
[ edited by Helenjw on Mar 7, 2003 04:40 PM ]
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profe51
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posted on March 7, 2003 04:55:22 PM new
I NEVER said he should be dishonorably discharged BECAUSE of his statement. There's a BIG difference.
OK then, thanks for clarifying, I hoped I had misunderstood you.
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Helenjw
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posted on March 7, 2003 05:05:00 PM new
This is Linda's comment. Nobody said that he cried out of shame...just a linda leap.
"Anytime that soldier wants out...he can get out. No one's holding a gun to his head. DISHONORABLE discharge would fit perfectly if he crys when he sees our flag out of shame."
[ edited by Helenjw on Mar 7, 2003 05:16 PM ]
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Linda_K
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posted on March 7, 2003 05:16:12 PM new
profe - You may have joined this board since the last time I apologized for my lack of ability to articulate my thoughts more clearly. In person I can do much better. Using this medium, I struggle. I have asked others to always feel free to ask me if there is a doubt. Thank you.
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Helenjw
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posted on March 7, 2003 05:21:23 PM new
So you are saying that you don't really mean what you say here?
You write it and read it before you post it but then you don't know what you have said?
Helen
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gravid
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posted on March 7, 2003 05:23:04 PM new
A lot of people say they could never hurt someone. Perhaps some of them are correct.
I do know I am capable of violence as a tool. Yet perhaps because of the reality of that I also see a need for restraint when using it.
Unfortunatly one of the functions of organizations is to spread the blame around so that individuals are not as responsible for their actions as they should be.
I have to ask you to consider what the world would be like if we as individuals followed this new policy of the President and carry out attacks against anyone that we think is capable of being a threat to us or our loved ones without regard to their actions - just potential ability to do harm.
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Linda_K
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posted on March 7, 2003 05:24:45 PM new
You just never stop do you Hellen
If the profe understood my clarificaton, they you should be capable of doing the same.
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Helenjw
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posted on March 7, 2003 05:33:10 PM new
It's not a question of understanding but rather a question of credibility.
I simply don't believe that you have trouble expressing your thoughts.
I don't agree with your thoughts but I am convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that you really believe them.
Helen
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antiquary
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posted on March 7, 2003 05:36:11 PM new
I fell for that excuse for a year or two.
But in too many instances it doesn't work. After about a thousands of those, it begins to wear thin.
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Linda_K
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posted on March 7, 2003 05:49:52 PM new
gravid - if you were addressing me.
I've always agreed with your 'tough' stance on protecting yourself or your own. I agreed with bear when he said he didn't want to be waving his phone receiver when someone broke into his home, screaming at the intruder "I'm calling 911." I don't do well with men [or anyone really] who are afraid to take a stand/to protect themselves or what they hold dear to them.
You then took that to a different level. Force against the enemy, torture. Least that's what I thought you were referring to.
I have to ask you to consider what the world would be like if we as individuals followed this new policy of the President and carry out attacks against anyone that we think is capable of being a threat to us or our loved ones without regard to their actions - just potential ability to do harm.
If you felt an individual was a threat to your wife, you certainly would act pre-emptively to ensure her safety. You might try other methods to stop the perceived threat, but when it got down to the bottom line and your 'warning' to this person wasn't working you'd most likely do something stronger.
I believe our government does the same thing. The past three administrations have seen Saddam as a threat to our country, and to the world, and all have said he needs to disarm and be removed. The difference is no one has done anything about it until now. I don't think we would be doing this, even now, had it not been for 9-11. Iraq has been given chances to remove the 'preceived' threats.
As far as this 'any preceived threat' I believe we take them one issue at a time. Just as you would if there was more than one 'threat' to your wife. But as far as North Korea goes....we now see Bush wasn't wrong on that one. He didn't lie to us about that 'preceived' threat.
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Linda_K
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posted on March 7, 2003 05:57:55 PM new
I really don't care if either of you 'believe' it or not.
I was reacting to the premise of rawbunzel's post where she stated he appeared to her to be doing something he didn't agree with. And I do stand by my statement. If any soldier doesn't believe in being involved in a war he thinks is unjust he should leave the service. If he's against the war he MOST certainly shouldn't be in with the troops or in the military since that's what they do, endangering his life along with his own. Period. And if he left [his right] he would and should receive a dis-honorable discharge, imo. Nothing at all to do with his right to free speech.
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stockticker
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posted on March 7, 2003 06:08:16 PM new
So you are against conscription (such as you had during the Viet Nam war), Linda?
Irene
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Linda_K
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posted on March 7, 2003 06:19:43 PM new
Irene - I have waffled on the issue. Currently lean to the belief that if American doesn't have enough people who want to defend her...then so be it. When I was younger I totally agreed with the draft, sometimes I still do. Very mixed feelings. Glad the decision isn't mine.
I think if I had the power I'd require all youths upon graduating from high school to enter a say two year period of time, in service to their country. Would give them wonderful training on both self survival and personal responsibility. Reason for this is we enjoy so much from being lucky enough to have been born in this country....and we owe something back. In this two year period if there were those against fighting...there would still be many areas to which our country could benefit from their service.
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gravid
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posted on March 7, 2003 06:34:44 PM new
Linda K - I decided you are right. My wife reminded me who offered eagerly to take a pipe and bust a certain professor's knees if he cursed her again. I guess that is pretty preemptive. He has been so mannerly she suspects the Chairman of the department overheard my offer and dropped a word to the wise.
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Linda_K
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posted on March 7, 2003 07:34:56 PM new
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