posted on March 7, 2003 09:01:56 PM new
Borillar - So then to you a person's word means nothing. I was raised that when you give your word it means something. And if you don't stand by your word, it tells a great deal about you as a person. When gentlemen make an agreement and shake hands, that means something. They didn't make agreements and then when one broke their side of the agreement, they re-negotiated the agreement for 12 years. Those days appear long over.
Oh yes, let's allow Saddam to continue to use the UN another 20 years or so and do nothing about it. The 1991 war with Iraq isn't technically over you know.
And chococake - I have no clue as to what you are referring to. I don't live in Texas, but do have some family there. They're happy with their lives there.
[ edited by Linda_K on Mar 7, 2003 09:08 PM ]
posted on March 7, 2003 09:07:26 PM new
What the heck does CLICK mean?
What about Texas, I missed something
Well which is it Borillar, I've heard you talk about the separation of Church and State, then you say all that you just did up there about Jesus Christ? -
I believe in our core American Values, the United States Constitution and the Bill of Rights and the Ideals of both our nation's Founding Fathers as well as those of Jesus Christ
And does anyone have the exact number of countries there are on this earth? (thats the trivia ? for this Friday evening )
Art Bell Retired! George Noory is on late night coasttocoastam.com
posted on March 7, 2003 09:11:39 PM new
"click" means she didn't agree with what I said. If I clicked [pressed ignore their posts] everytime I didn't like something someone was saying I wouldn't have much to read here.
posted on March 7, 2003 09:34:39 PM new
Click =ignore.... oh brother thank you Linda for clearing that up
stockticker... thank you! That is very interesting... also interesting is the Vatican, NOT being part of the UN
Well isn't this all fun you guys?
OT anyone ever hear of, or know what remote viewing is?
(its kinda interesting, military started it, and I've been listening to what the collective minds of one remote viewing place has to say........ well lessee, more scary than interesting)
just thought I'd throw that out there at you all too
Art Bell Retired! George Noory is on late night coasttocoastam.com
posted on March 7, 2003 09:43:38 PM new
Nah, It's not fun. Entertaining but not fun.
I don't know much about remote viewing. Sounds like an interestng topic. Why not start a thread and explain it and maybe we can talk about something else besides war for a change.
posted on March 7, 2003 10:20:13 PM new
C.I.A. Invented the Remote Viewing Protocol in the 1970s for the psychic viewing of Russian activities.
DEFINITION. Remote viewing is the ability of a person to project their conscious observation, to a distant location in the physical universe, to see or sense what is there.
posted on March 7, 2003 11:04:39 PM new
Thanks Fred, yes the gov't 'started' it. Do they still use it? Who knows.
One of the guys is this ex Major... Ed Dames, not sure about him, but he is a frequent guests on Noory, and used to be on Art Bells. He's a remote viewer.
chococake, I listened to Art, almost every night when he was on, now its Noory, but never heard that show! wow... I've heard a lot of 'predictions' 'prophecies' and whatever, that the real anti christ is possibly alive today, is a well known person, is a good person (one reason people will believe and 'follow' him) and that he is killed, then brought back to life, not in the 'usual' way, like recucitated, but like dead longer than any brain would 'survive', and that is when he actually becomes the anti christ... and he is supposedly in Europe.
Do I believe that? Heck I don't know
but then I've heard the Pope was the anti christ.... (hey I didn't make that up, I was raised Catholic! )
But wow, I do have streamlink, that can get so many archived shows of the coast to coast programs, I could do a search, if there is one, on Bush being the anti christ
Anyway... its late now... but Thurs/Fri AM's show was kinda scary...
It was Major Ed Dames (the remote viewer) and basically this is whats going to happen:
After the U.S. goes into Iraq, N. Korea will blow off a ground nuke, in a tunnel? and then, well, everything just goes to h*ll... The whole world will blame the U.S., the Americans will demand we do something, there will be NO slugfest nuke war, but some ground war in Korea... the market will totally collapse with no recovery, China will basically take over, and, well, like I said.... not good. If they had a transcript in text, I'd copy and paste it here for you, you pay to get this danged streamlink, and I don't think they have it all in text.
You can go to coasttocoastam.com and find Thurs/Fri show with Major Ed Dames, and it may give you a bit about what he said.
I dunno.
I do know I'm hooked on 'Coast' but Art Bell did it way better.... and rumor has it that he will be back!
Man its late...
Rawbunzel, I would start a thread, but I'd probably screw it up trying to explain it.
Hey FRED, you should! it would be interesting...
A couple things DID click when he said N. Korea would set off a ground nuke... Noory said 'thats interesting, because Rumsfeld was just saying that he was thinking of pulling troops OUT of Korea, and they've been there since the 50's', so that is really kinda coincidental?
Art Bell Retired! George Noory is on late night coasttocoastam.com
posted on March 8, 2003 12:57:11 AM new
>Borillar - So then to you a person's word means nothing.
What my personal opinions are of another person's behavior is irrelevant. It only has whatever relevancy that others wish to place upon it. Because of the problem that you have stated in seeing the world, it is not possible for you to understand the situation at hand. Your premise does not fit because heads of state are more than a single person, they represent the head of a nation. That Saddam lies and his people may see that as good that he is protrecting them from undue western imperialism. Bush lies to the American People constantly and to the world nearly on a daily basis and some Americans think that's A-OK too. How then can you resolve this crisis, Linda? How can you be all for Bush when he lies to you? Lying to you is not right, moral, or good for you. Do you enjoy being betrayed? Do you enjoy others hurting you -- especially ones that you depend upon to be for your best interests? You have to reconcile what it is that you want with what the world really is. You have to think outside that box built of Black & White and see the world for what it is. Only then will you get your answer.
posted on March 8, 2003 01:02:16 AM new
>Well which is it Borillar, I've heard you talk about the separation of Church and State, then you say all that you just did up there about Jesus Christ? -
Which is it what, NearTheSea? Are you trying to hold me up to a standard set for our government? Am I the United States Government? Am I in a position of public trust?
NearTheSea, sometime when you have a bit of time on your hands try this little project: look up in your copy of the Bible in the New Testament and make a list of all of the things that Jesus told us that we should do, hnow we should respond to and act, and how ewe should treat one another. Or, buy a booklet with that in it.
Next, take that list of things and go compare them to the different types of political and economic systems. Which ones seem to follow the teachings of Jesus? Which ones do not? Which ones are closer to the teachings of Jesus than others? If you do that, you'll be in for a very, very big surprize ~ I guarantee it!
posted on March 8, 2003 06:23:10 AM new
Hey everybody, here's an idea. Since we're in a "rush" to make things right with something we attended to 12 years ago, how about we make things right with the multiple treaties we screwed the Native Americans out of about 100 years ago? I know this is apples and oranges, but this government kind of killed them off too, didn't it?
Don't be so quick to dismiss what other postees have to say, even if it doesn't jive with what you believe in. A little diplomacy here goes a long way...it might even prevent you from showing your ass.
"Who's tending the bar? Sniping works up a thirst"
posted on March 8, 2003 11:54:44 AM new
Borillar, no you are not the U.S. Gov't
In other threads, did you not say you were a 'Taoist-Christian'?
Thats great... only that the 2 'faiths' are 'almost' total opposites
Do I read the bible, or you asked, get a Bible and look up ........
Yes, and the main thing about Christianity lies in John 3:11
Now Taoist they do not pray as Christians do; there is no God to hear the prayers or to act upon them. They seek answers to life's problems through inner meditation and outer observation. They are peaceful, and always kind to others. (that is wonderful)
They do not believe in Christ, or any Diety, or even one God.
The two are really contradictory.
Why did I bring this up?
You blast upon the gov't and things the U.S. do. When a Taoist wouldn't do these things, only act in kindness, (Christians would also)
Would Christ condem or condone WAR?
Good question..... interpetations of the NT, can show that 'you must obey the laws of the land' ok, then that could be interpeted as saying 'that it is OK for the military to do as they are told' as in going into Iraq.
Art Bell Retired! George Noory is on late night coasttocoastam.com
posted on March 8, 2003 12:44:39 PM new
>Thats great... only that the 2 'faiths' are 'almost' total opposites -NearTheSea-
Poem 1 REALIZATION OF TAO T'i Tao
The Tao that can be stated is not the Eternal Tao. The name that can be named is not the Eternal Name. The Unnameable is originator of Heaven and Earth. The Nameable is mother of all physical things. Therefore, Always be desireless, so as to discern Tao's wonderful essence; Always have some desire, so as to discern its manifestations. These two come out from the same source, But are different in name. Their identical nature is a mystery. Mystery of mysteries - That is the gate of all wonderful essance.
posted on March 8, 2003 01:30:16 PM new
Borillar! I thought you were going to 'punish' me for bringing the Taoist/Christian thing into this thread!
Ok here:
Taoist Beliefs and Practices:
Taoism has provided an alternative to the Confucian tradition in China. The two traditions have coexisted in the country, region and generally within the same individual.
Tao is the first-cause of the universe. It is a force that flows through all life.
Each believer's goal is to become one with the Tao.
The priesthood views the many gods as manifestations of the one Dao, "which could not be represented as an image or a particular thing." The concept of a personified deity is foreign to them, as is the concept of the creation of the universe. Thus, they do not pray as Christians do; there is no God to hear the prayers or to act upon them. They seek answers to life's problems through inner meditation and outer observation.
In contrast with the beliefs and practices of the priesthood, most of the laity have "believed that spirits pervaded nature...The gods in heaven acted like and were treated like the officials in the world of men; worshipping the gods was a kind of rehearsal of attitudes toward secular authorities. On the other hand, the demons and ghosts of hell acted like and were treated like the bullies, outlaws, and threatening strangers in the real world; they were bribed by the people and were ritually arrested by the martial forces of the spirit officials." 3
Time is cyclical, not linear as in Western thinking.
Yin (dark side) is the breath that formed the earth. Yang (light side) is the breath that formed the heavens. They symbolize pairs of opposites which are seen throughout the universe, such as good and evil, light and dark, male and female. Intervention by human civilization upsets the balances of Yin and Yang. The symbol of Taoism, seen at the top of this page, represents Yin and Yang in balance.
"The Tao surrounds everyone and therefore everyone must listen to find enlightenment." 4
Taoists generally have an interest in promoting health and vitality.
Five main organs and orifices of the body correspond to the five parts of the sky: water, fire, wood, metal and earth.
Each person must nurture the Ch'i (air, breath) that has been given to them.
Development of virtue is one's chief task. The Three Jewels to be sought are compassion, moderation and humility.
Taoists follow the art of "wu wei," which is to let nature take its course. For example, one should allow a river to flow towards the sea unimpeded; do not erect a dam which would interfere with its natural flow.
One should plan in advance and consider carefully each action before making it.
A Taoists is kind to other individuals, largely because such an action tends to be reciprocated.
Taoists believe that "people are compassionate by nature...left to their own devices [they] will show this compassion without expecting a reward."
http://www.religioustolerance.org/taoism.htm
That sounds really nice, and good and all, but it does not sound anything like Christianity.
But on saying that, you can believe anything you want to believe.
And on that! Oh... nevermind
Art Bell Retired! George Noory is on late night coasttocoastam.com
posted on March 8, 2003 02:27:45 PM new
NearTheSea, did you not comprehend the first poem?
While that is a nice tract on how some have practiced the phylosophy of Tao (Dao), it is not entirely correct. For instance, Lao Tsu, the author of TAO TEH CHING, litterally translated as "The Way" lived and died before Confucious. Confucious added on to the Tao his own slant, which included much Chinese beliefs that allows more people to be incorporated within the belief system. There is no worship in the tradiional western Prayer sense as Lao Tsu did describe God, but did not see the need to incorporate prayer. If you understood Tao, you would understand why that is. Later years, some other schools of religon and phlosophy inculcated themselves into Taoism; such as Buddhism and Zen, neither of which are in conflict with any Christian teachings or practices. As far as little wooden idols or whatever spirits that the chinese like to pray to, I do not practice muself. Instead, I concentrate on the teachings of the Tao and its enternal mysteries, and I also enjoy the Zen portion as well, because I have a native understanding of it. I think that your conflict only appears when you are ignorant of these things, NearTheSea. it would be worth your time to investigate Buddhism, Taoism, and Zen phylosophy systems. You can only better yourself by doing so.
posted on March 8, 2003 04:03:06 PM new
All I have to do is walk on down the street to my brothers house and ask his wife, who just came here 3? years ago, from mainland China, NOT Hong Kong.
She is a total NON religion, you know what she calls her religion if you ask her? She says Communism... seriously she does say that. But of course she knows all about Buddhism, Taoism etc
Her parents, 'like' Church go to weekly meetings of the communist party. (do they all do this? no way... they are retired, and the 'older generation' ) They embrace it.. which is totally strange to me because they LOVE that my brother sends them 'stuff' from here, but they would rather have the money... you should know what the US dollar is worth there. They also WANTED their daughter to come here... now go figure.... since they proclaim to be total communist..... hmmmm.. BUT back to religions, which basically DID form in Asia... Buddhism, Tao or Dao, I will ask her. She does know. Like you, she grew up there, ( I say like you, because you say you grew up in a 3rd world country, not saying CHINA is a 3rd world country, but parts of it sure could be considered it)
And since *I* am talking about China here stockticker???? linked from here to another board, where someone was going in depth about China... I do remember they called it a ONE CHILD NATION. that is not true... my SIL has 1 brother and 1 sister.... now figure this out.... she was born in 1969, and is the oldest. NO, they allow more than ONE child there now, and have for some time.
I just went off... excuse me, I need to get out for awhile
Art Bell Retired! George Noory is on late night coasttocoastam.com
posted on March 8, 2003 11:36:30 PM new I think most of the Treaties were so we wouldn't kill each other
Well, no, actually it was to get the locals out of our way as this country expanded. We could have wiped out the Native Americans, but that wouldn't be very Christian of us. So instead we made treaties, then made more treaties as we broke the earlier ones, and so on and so forth. And yes, the reservations have their perks, some of which I don't necessarily agree with either. It's an imperfect system.
But that's not the point I was trying to make. I'm proud to be an American, and very thankful that I live in this country. But I'm not going to be so naive as to believe that this country of ours hasn't done some wrong, and dare I say it immoral, things in the past, just like every other country out there.
I think the point that the "leftists", as they have been so labelled here, are trying to make is "Hold on now...is this something we really want to do?" I mean, I'm not trying to speak for them, but that's the underlying message I'm hearing.
The second message I was trying to convey is the people posting here, on both sides of the subject, should be able to post their opinions, and have a lively and constructive conversation, without having to resort to name calling and innuendos.
But maybe that's asking too much?
"Who's tending the bar? Sniping works up a thirst"
posted on March 9, 2003 01:13:46 PM new
>I just went off... excuse me, I need to get out for awhile
Thank you for the honest conversation, NearTheSea. It is always tough when you actually go meet people whom your previous ideas about do not fit them. Your friends are confusing the western notion of "religion" with "living philosophy" and it is because the Chinese are very different. You have to understand that the Chinese are and have always been great observers of life. Their earliest written records hand down observations of nature from prior antiquity. The Chinese believe that Nature is like a well-oiled machine that works in mysterious ways and that people are a single part of that machine. People have a "place" within the order of life that is manifested in nature and that unhappiness is the result of our going against our proper places in Nature. The Tao is nothing more than a description of what Nature is (God as we see God) and how we "fit it" so to speak. Therefore, when you asked them what religion it was that they practiced the answer was Communism, which for them is absolutely correct.
I find it unfortunate that western religion interprets the great prophets and thinkers in the Bible to say that Humans are apart from nature; that it is our nature to Rule and Use and to Dispose Of as we see fit. Through this practice I have often found the root cause of people's unhappiness. Conversely, when I have explained a bit of how the Chinese see things ~ getting along with the world rather than seeing it as a personal toilet, they begin to loose their unhappiness and feel much better, both physically and emotionally. Some even break down in tears.
I can only image how the Chinese see Bush and his arrogant policies, then. Pulling out from the Kyoto Treaty and other Quality of Life things that he has broken or reversed and made bad, doing great evil in the eyes of nearly everybody in the world. All of Asia is influenced by the Chinese View of Life, even Shinto in Japan which they still practice finds its roots in China.
BTW: The Buddha, the First Buddha of history was a Prince in India who after seeking the Truth in Life eventually UNDERSTOOD and became Enlightened and at Peace with all things. It was later brought into China mainly along the Silk Route, when the Chinese were able to incorporate much of its teachings into their own belief system.
posted on March 9, 2003 01:25:12 PM new
Koto, it is a never-ending shame; a black mark; a dark stain on the honor of America that of the one-hundred and forty-some treaties with the Indians, we have broken all but one of them. That the Bureau of Indians Affairs has been the government's platform for terrorist activities towards the native population is more than a matter of historical record, it is a common practice even today. Even during Clinton's time, the BIA was trying to screw the local Amerindian population. That those tribes who have built casinos and have been able to prevent their own people from the sickness that follows is a great thing; that those tribes who are also using the money to buy back their own lands with the White Man's money that he foolishly spends at the gambling tables is only justice. I hope that some day that the tribes will have purchased back the lands stolen from them; although they may not want them after what we've done to most of it.
Our government is indeed a Terrorist Organization to its own people, then. It HAS participated in Weapons of Mass Destruction on its own people ~ just like Saddam Hussein did. Surprised, anyone, at that remark? Recall that we intentionally gave smallpox-laden blankets to the Indians, knowing that they would contract the illness and die from it. Yes, we are no better than Saddam Hussein! Maybe the people of this nation ought to practice a little bit of "regime change" of their own?
)
Sniping works up a thirst"