posted on March 19, 2003 07:43:44 AM new
Peace Be With You
Fat Chance.
It would be nice to think that each will get what they deserve.
But being that there is no God, they won’t.
I will be blamed for this along with the neo-cons, more like neo-Nazis.
And telling you I told you so will be no consolation at all.
For those of you true ‘believers’ out there, as I understand it , it is foretold that from the time of the emergence of the state of Israel, that generation shall not pass before we see Armageddon.
I might be a believer yet.
Big deal 3000 deaths, in a building, compared to what we are doing as revenge, and to protect our phoney boloney ‘faith’.
Even though evidence of Iraq’s involvement on WTC is scanty at best, there is enough evidence to show that our nations condone this attack, and if you sought revenge for 3000, imagine what the Muslim world will feel.
And the share market sees optimism,??
Amazing.
I hope those that have invested with optimism lo$e the lot.
At least I’m not wishing death upon people as terrorists do, I’m including you there colin, & 1”, & reamond & yeager and others like you. (funny how at least 2 of the strongest voices are jewish) Oops, sorry, I didn’t mean to offend you in the midst of this party atmosphere.
Linda_K, ebayauctionguy, and others simpletons, you’re pawns,
Dubya’s and John Howard’s sons obviously weren’t given to understand the same as common folk’s sons that now volunteer to go fight this war. Wonder why??
Take a big fat guess. Could it be that they were discouraged because they were loved, or aren’t they as patriotic as some, or perhaps their daddy didn’t talk shop at home, or didn’t let them watch TV. No collateral damage there.
There’s a pretty good chance that at least one or some of us reading the AW chats will be pealing leprosy from our faces, or something like it, and why, because some jerk makes money out of it.
And so worried that our nations will be Muslim in the distant future; so what, you’ll be dead and your of spring won’t know any different. That’s the big joke.
Carry on now, support our troops, we may offend them otherwise.
Every one agrees that the battle in Iraq will be won, but no one with a brain in their head knows what will happen after.
posted on March 19, 2003 05:12:39 PM new
Yeager, a legend in your own mind.
The whole world resents Israel and USA, and all they do is feed the world more justification.
What do these 2 countries have in common? The neo-cons that’s what.
Are you stupid or just deceitful, will nobody here on the neo-right acknowledge that the Jewish lobby is even represented in the PNAC?
We're talking, 'balance of power' here.
“US promises Israel $2.16 billion military aid 2004,” Reuters, 21 November 2002
‘AGENDA’ which causes the suffering of Palestinian children http://www.palestinemonitor.org/gallery/children2.htm
Why give social welfare aid to Americans when you can give it to Israel
Here are some stats’ to show where your allegiances lay.
http://www.palestinemonitor.org/factsheet/US_Aid_to_Israel.htm
A BREAKDOWN OF UNITED STATES AID TO ISRAEL
Financial Aid
The Israeli government is the largest recipient of US financial aid in the world, receiving over one-third of total US aid to foreign countries4, even though Israel’s population comprises just .001% of the world’s population and has one the world’s higher per capita incomes.
 Since 1949 the US has given Israel a total of $84,854,827,200. The interest costs born by US taxpayers on behalf of Israel are $49,937,000,000 – making the total amount of aid given to Israel since 1949 $134,791,507,200 (more than $134 billion).5
 The total cost of this financial aid to US tax payers per Israeli is $23,240.
 Since 1992, the US has offered Israel an additional $2 billion in loan guarantees every year.6
 Nearly all past loans to Israel have been forgiven – leading Israel to claim that they have never defaulted on repayment of a US loan – with most loans made on the understanding that they would be forgiven before Israel was required to repay them.
 In 1997 alone, the total of US grants and loan guarantees to Israel was $5.5 billion, i.e., $15,068,493 per day.
posted on March 19, 2003 05:45:13 PM new
What 's really interesting is that with all the talk about how high tech the US war machine is the Israelis are really ahead of the US in a number of areas. Boeing is negotiating rights to build the arrow anti-missile missile because it is way ahead of the US systems. It reaches out 40 miles which means you have a much better chance of surviving nuclear weapons that are fail fused and using a second system like the advanced patriot behind it means you get a second chance. The US gets a lot of help with such systems for their money.
They developed the arrow system with a design staff of a hundred. With a hundred people you don't have all the middle managers deciding who can talk to whom like in NASA.
posted on March 19, 2003 07:12:49 PM new
Yeager, I get the impression Austi is impressed to see what he has written. You can tell he has no real life experience in defending his country. In other words, he is like a cabbage, all head & no azz.
If forced to defend himself or his country his only defense would be to turn & run, That would force his attacker to slip & slide in all the "crap" that had rolled down Austi's pants legs.
He isn't typical of the true Australian. I know, I have fought along sides the Aussies, drunk several of them under the table. The real Aussies I knew were 100% pro American. And this guy (Austi) is not the normal red blooded Australian. Hell he isn't fit to breath the same oxygen as a real Aussie.
posted on March 19, 2003 09:27:52 PM new
When funds go in any direction at the expense of domestic aid, you'd think someone with a brain in their head might wonder if military lives are similarly allocated.
It's Ok yeager, they all seem to be ignoring the facts.
Beware the red peril! etc etc etc bear, sounds like you are scared to me.
posted on March 19, 2003 09:42:02 PM new
I really can't post anything more right now. Jerry Springer is on here in the Detroit area and I have to watch it. The title of the show is "My Lover is a Kangaroo"
posted on March 19, 2003 10:21:43 PM new
Boy it is a long time since I posted anything here but this is worth coming back for.
He isn't typical of the true Australian. I know, I have fought along sides the Aussies, drunk several of them under the table. The real Aussies I knew were 100% pro American. And this guy (Austi) is not the normal red blooded Australian. Hell he isn't fit to breath the same oxygen as a real Aussie.
Never a truer word has been spoken. I am an Aussie through and through and I am not at all sure where you are from Austibounty but you sure as hell are like no Australian I know, so please don't think you talk for us all.
Not everyone is going to agree on war but whether or not we agree with it, it is a fact of life and we are all involved. If you don't agree so be it, but surely anyone with even half a brain can see this has been coming for many years. I did not want to go to war either but I accept that this is the way it has to be if we are ever to have a peaceful world. Saddam is a murderer, he has proven that over and over again. Would you like your children or grandchildren to have to face his kind of terror in another 10 or 20 years because that is what is going to happen unless he and his minions are stopped NOW, and I don't just mean by telling him he is a bad boy and pretty please don't go making anymore weapons of mass destruction. I mean use whatever force is necessary to stop him, and that is what I believe we are doing at this minute.
I am not a big fan of Howard either but I do agree with what he is doing and good lord don't tell me you think Creen could do a better job because I would just have to laugh in your face, he would have to be the all time fool ever put into politics.
Don't bother to answer my questions, I don't think we would ever agree anyway but I just wanted to say that you do not speak for all Australians. Some of us can think and speak for ourselves.
Austi, when you come up with an ORIGINAL thought rather than parioting the anti-American left wings', you might become credible human. Until then all your diatribe is doing is contributing to global warming.
posted on March 20, 2003 09:40:25 AM new
Why the Left Loves Osama [and Saddam]
by Daniel Pipes
New York Post
March 19, 2003
Has anyone noticed an indifference in the precincts of the far Left to the fatalities of 9/11 and the horrors of Saddam Hussein?
Right after the 9/11 attack, German composer Karlheinz Stockhausen called it "the greatest work of art for the whole cosmos." Eric Foner, an ornament of Columbia University's Marxist firmament, trivialized it by announcing himself unsure "which is more frightening: the horror that engulfed New York City or the apocalyptic rhetoric emanating daily from the White House." Norman Mailer called the suicide hijackers "brilliant."
More recently, it appears that none of the millions of antiwar demonstrators have a bad word to say about Saddam Hussein nor an iota of sympathy for those oppressed, tortured and murdered by his regime. Instead, they vent fury against the American president and British prime minister.
Why is the Left nonchalant about the outrages committed by al Qaeda and Baghdad?
Lee Harris, an Atlanta writer, offers an explanation in a recent issue of the Hoover Institution's journal, Policy Review. He does so by stepping way back and recalling Karl Marx's central thesis about the demise of capitalism resulting from an inevitable sequence of events:
* Business profits decline in the industrial countries;
* Bosses squeeze their workers;
* Workers become impoverished;
* Workers rebel against their bosses, and
* Workers establish a socialist order.
Everything here hangs on workers growing poorer over time - which, of course, did not happen. In fact, Western workers became richer (and increasingly un-revolutionary). By the roaring 1950s, most of the Left realized that Marx got it wrong.
But rather than give up on cherished expectations of socialist revolution, Harris notes, Marxists tweaked their theory. Abandoning the workers of advanced industrial countries, they looked instead to the entire populations of poor countries to carry out the revolution. Class analysis went out the window, replaced by geography.
This new approach, known as "dependencia theory," holds that the First World (and the United States above all) profits by forcefully exploiting the Third Word. The Left theorizes that the United States oppresses poor countries; thus Noam Chomsky's formulation that America is a "leading terrorist state."
For vindication of this claim, Marxists impatiently await the Third World's rising up against the West. Sadly for them, the only true revolution since the 1950s was Iran's in 1978-79. It ended with militant Islam in power and the Left in hiding.
Then came 9/11, which Marxists interpreted as the Third World (finally!) striking back at its American oppressor. In the Left's imagination, Harris explains, this attack was nothing less than "world-historical in its significance: the dawn of a new revolutionary era."
Only a pedant would point out that the suicide hijackers hardly represented the wretched of the earth; and that their objectives had nothing at all to do with socialism and everything to do with - no, not again! - militant Islam.
So desperate is the Left for some sign of true socialism, it overlooks such pesky details. Instead, it warily admires al Qaeda, the Taliban and militant Islam in general for doing battle with the United States. The Left tries to overlook militant Islam's slightly un-socialist practices - such as its imposing religious law, excluding women from the workplace, banning the payment of interest, encouraging private property and persecuting atheists.
This admiring spirit explains the Left's nonchalant response to 9/11. Sure, it rued the loss of life, but not too much. Dario Fo, the Italian Marxist who won the 1997 Nobel Prize for literature, explains: "The great [Wall Street] speculators wallow in an economy that every year kills tens of millions of people with poverty, so what is 20,000 dead in New York?"
The same goes for Saddam Hussein, whose gruesome qualities matter less to the Left than the fact of his confronting and defying the United States. In its view, anyone who does that can't be too bad - never mind that he brutalizes his subjects and invades his neighbors. The Left takes to the streets to assure his survival, indifferent both to the fate of Iraqis and even to their own safety, clutching instead at the hope that this monster will somehow bring socialism closer.
In sum: 9/11 and the prospect of war against Saddam Hussein have exposed the Left's political self-delusion, intellectual bankruptcy and moral turpitude.
posted on March 20, 2003 10:44:39 AM new
Reamond I agree with that article
What I really want to know is this, and maybe people like Helen or the others can answer this..
Who are the Peace Protesters, Anti War people, what I mean is, do they work, are they all kids cutting class, seniors that are retired, what?
Memos going around offices, I got one that Mike forwarded to me... that today, they are expecting the protests out front of their office building, and that do not expect to be able to leave for lunch (again) and that the Seattle Police Dept will be there. And to remind everyone that the communte home will probably be expeirencing a lot of delays.
What about the people that work? Do they care, that these are the people that are keeping the economy going??????? From IT depts to construction workers these people are making it really hard for people to just be able to do their jobs.
Last week, memo went around for everyone to leave early.
We believe in free speach, but what about the freedom to be able to work to pay our bills?
Art Bell Retired! George Noory is on late night coasttocoastam.com
posted on March 20, 2003 01:16:44 PM new
Near, I don't know about the peace protestors you have there, but personally, I think a peace protestor should actually be peacefull when protesting. The ones that throw stuff, fight, ruin property and prevent people from working are not for peace imo. The proof for peace is in actions, not words, so if you go by that, you'll be able to tell the real peace keepers from the radicals.
As far as austbounty goes, I haven't heard him/her saying anything about how his views represents Austrailia. Not fit to breathe their oxygen?? That's mean.
posted on March 20, 2003 01:53:56 PM new
Bear said, "Hell he isn't fit to breath the same oxygen as a real Aussie."
Nettak responded to that..."Never a truer word has been spoken."
That's savage.
Austbounty has never stated here that he represents the beliefs of all Australians.
posted on March 20, 2003 02:18:09 PM new
I think Netta (I've never heard you be so mean before) was agreeing with bear's original post Helen. Even so, that's a pretty degrading statement coming from bear. In re-reading his post, I have to laugh at the "100% pro American" comment. What does that mean?
posted on March 20, 2003 02:25:32 PM new
I just noticed your question to me, NearTheSea
In my neighborhood, the peace marches are usually held on the week ends so that people who work during the week can participate. They represent a variety of ages and occupations. Some are students or children with their parents or grandparents.
If you consider the awful situation in Baghdad right now and still resent people who want to prevent such violence then nothing that I can say will be of any help.
The violence that we are inflicting on the poor people of Iraq is terrorism. But few people are able to understand that.
posted on March 20, 2003 02:28:43 PM new
nettak - Long time 'no see'. Sorry it took this to bring you back. Wish you'd 'drop' in more often. Hope all is well with you and yours.
posted on March 20, 2003 02:44:52 PM new
I don't pretend to talk for all Australians, I am saying what I myself feel. But I have to say that I believe that most Australians would be downright ashamed to be associated with some of the garbage that Austbounty has been posting.
We have our rabble rousers over here as well, just like you have in the US. They are holding rolling protest rallies all around the place, mostly filled with children who should be in school and people who should have grown up a long time ago. Some who will carry on about a burnt pork chop so as far as I am concerned they are nothing but rabble and do not amount to much. I am not saying that there are no genuine protesters because I am certain that there are some who really do believe in what they are protesting about, but they at least go about it in a civil manner and a polite manner which is more than can be said for some.
Kraft nice to see you. I guess this is an emotional issue for everyone, I actually am surprised at myself that I came in and posted. I have read a number of posts by this person and he has said more than a few things that have made my blood boil. That does not happen very often. I felt it was time to say what I felt as another Australian.
Hello Linda good to see you to. My lot are all fine and fit. Thanks for asking.
posted on March 20, 2003 03:22:48 PM new
Most of the anti-war protesters in the 1960s were collecting the new welfare payments ushered in with Johnson's "Great Society".
I think a lot of the protesters now are of the same ilk- squaters, welfare recipients, panhandlers, and the like.
I believe a part of the protesters are also egoistic "me too'ers" that want to say 30 years from now they were part of the "movement".
I think it has been estimated that if everyone who said they were at the first Woodstock was actually there, half the US population was at Max's farm.
But the same commies and socialist groups that were organizing in the 1960s are still behind it today.
The only ones that I respect are the true pacificists, but they are a small minority.
posted on March 20, 2003 04:12:36 PM new
I was asking my brother just that question, and he said, 'ah they're either students cutting class or welfare reciepents, my boss would have me fired on the spot for missing work for that'
I don't really believe that, but have to wonder what they are doing down there in Westlake Center right now, instead of being in school or at work
They only do this on weekends where you live Helen? then what a very civilized area you do live in!
Up in Bellingham this morning, they blocked the on ramp to I 5 the main freeway through this state.
In Portland, they actually SAID they would commit 'acts of civil disobedience'
Now tell me Helen, what does violent acts accomplish in a PEACE MARCH?
(btw they broke out a 6 ft diamter window where my husband works last week, and they replaced it! I asked him, why would they replace it, when they will probably do it again? )
Oh, and so the US Military over in Iraq are TERRORISTS now? that is what you said:
The violence that we are inflicting on the poor people of Iraq is terrorism
I'm sure our troops would love to hear remarks like that.
Art Bell Retired! George Noory is on late night coasttocoastam.com
posted on March 20, 2003 04:19:10 PM newThe violence that we are inflicting on the poor people of Iraq is terrorism. But few people are able to understand that.
What I do understand Helen is that each day you become more and more Anti-Amercican and
disrespectful to our fine young men and women in Iraq... You are a good poster child of why we need the death penalty and why we need to invade Iraq, people like you, who are so weak willed that you would betray your country to attempt to avoid violence...and at the same time give the terrorists what they want and that is FEAR...
posted on March 20, 2003 04:45:16 PM new
That remark is really..... awful, I can't find words for it, so I'll bold what you said Helen, even if you do edit it out
Helen you said:
The violence that we are inflicting on the poor people of Iraq is terrorism
I wonder if their are wives, girlfriends, parents, grandparents, or friends of anyone that has been deployed there that is reading this?
Would you actually say this to a wife or parent of an American soldier serving in the gulf right now?
Art Bell Retired! George Noory is on late night coasttocoastam.com
posted on March 20, 2003 04:54:10 PM new
Oh, how silly NearTheSea.
I'm not blaming the troops. I support the troops 100% and if it were my choice to make, I would bring them home now. I don't think that Bush should risk their lives for his power play.
This attack on Iraq has been orchestrated by the George Bush Administration. Actually, the word, terrorism is too mild. I should have said massacre.
The ones that throw stuff, fight, ruin property and prevent people from working are not for peace imo. The proof for peace is in actions, not words, so if you go by that, you'll be able to tell the real peace keepers from the radicals. 