I agree. Rachel Corrie was stupid emtionally charged fool. She gave her life for nothing. I watch the news on TV everyday, and I haven't heard her name on the news or in the paper. I only knew about her from the Round Table. The major news media must have that she was back burner news.
posted on March 26, 2003 12:56:49 AM new
Human shield like these are bozos. They go to places that are, in effect, already gigantic human shields... but native humans. A force that wouldn't stop for native humans would stop for me! The underlying assumption that these imported human shields make, their unspoken message, is that their life is of a higher value than the masses of humans already there.
posted on March 26, 2003 04:57:31 AM new
Or even sillier donny - they think the government will value them more than the Iraqis because they are Americans.
posted on March 26, 2003 05:07:07 AM new
donny & gravid - That's exactly what I was trying to say when [way back in this thread] I said she thought she was 'special'.
posted on March 26, 2003 05:46:29 AM newThe sign reads, "We support our troops when they shoot their officers". Does anyone here really believe that such a disgusting, criminal and anti-American thought is representative of the people in this peace march other than the two people carrying it? Helen [edited by Helenjw on Mar 25, 2003 03:45 PM.
Since no one bothered them about it...I'd say many must have accepted it. Whether or not you find it 'representative of the people' isn't the point. The point is it's offensive and calling on troops to shoot their officers should be offensive to all.
While those carrying this sign seemed to be given a 'pass' by the so called 'peace protestors', I'm sure you wouldn't find the same tolerance/acceptance of a sign that said something like "Support our troops, when they shoot black soldiers". I find both offensive, but you seem to think because you judge it to not be representative, that somehow makes it different. It's anti-American as you have now edited your post to state.
And we do now have a soldier who threw the grenades at his fellow soldiers, killing and injuring them. Just like the Washington DC snipers shooter companion who served in the military did to his fellow soldiers before him.
posted on March 26, 2003 06:39:20 AM new
Linda's quote
While those carrying this sign seemed to be given a 'pass' by the so called 'peace protestors', I'm sure you wouldn't find the same tolerance/acceptance of a sign that said something like "Support our troops, when they shoot black soldiers". I find both offensive, but you seem to think because you judge it to not be representative, that somehow makes it different. It's anti-American as you have now edited your post to state.
<end quote>
I asked,
Does anyone here really believe that such a disgusting, criminal and anti-American thought is representative of the people in this peace march other than the two people carrying it?
Your response is convoluted and illogical. When you say, "but you seem to think because you judge it to not be representative, that somehow makes it different."
My question is different from what?
posted on March 26, 2003 06:49:29 AM new
Helen - I did mention that you, once again, edited your post.
And I sure didn't read anywhere that anyone there objected to that sign, found it offensive or that a fight [verbal or physical] broke out because of it. Nada...
posted on March 26, 2003 06:51:44 AM new
Helen, I hope you're right, and that the sign only represents the views of the holders (who may not actually feel this way but enjoy the shock value from it). I also hope there were not more signs that were equally disturbing.
Everyone has a right to protest and feel one way or the other about an issue, but that one crossed the boundary.
So, to answer your question, I don't THINK it is representative of the crowd, but then, I didn't think I'd see a sign that said "We support our troops when they shoot their officers".
The vast majority of protesters are law-abiding, peaceful folk; there's a saying that your rights end at the tip of my nose, which could be extrapolated into blocking traffic (to include emergency vehicles). It's these who choose to disrupt others' lives with their protests that upset me.
posted on March 26, 2003 08:45:03 AM new
Helen
Don't be surprised if these violent "peace marchers" turn out to be paid Neo-Conservative lackeys sent to disparage and undercut the peace movement. It is part of their manual of tactics to take over the country. A movement paid for and supported by Anthony Scaife.
"Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both boldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar."
- Julius Caesar
posted on March 26, 2003 09:17:16 AM new
The FACT is the sign is there, the FACT is that it is being carried at a supposed "peace" demonstration by anti-war protestors, the FACT is that no one had the cajones to not allow that at this supposed "peace" anti-war demonstration...
The FACT is mlecher you have yet to come here with anything other than inuendo or lame suppositions... no facts or truths whatsoever... How about waiting to post when you have some FACTS, oh wait, then you could never post... never mind I will just keep laughing at what you do post.
Even serious discussions needs the court jesters and I thank you for filling in just fine there mlecher...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
[ edited by Twelvepole on Mar 26, 2003 09:18 AM ]
posted on March 26, 2003 09:24:31 AM new
Right Mlecher
It simply doesn't make sense that either anti-war or pro-war marchers would condone such a disgusting, criminal and anti-American sign. We have to give the human race more credit than that.
posted on March 26, 2003 11:09:20 AM new
"Or even sillier donny - they think the government will value them more than the Iraqis because they are Americans."
I'll use the argument you have used so many times before...
Prove me wrong.
But the Neo-Conservatives have used this tactic before....
Remember the scene of all of those "citizen" protestors banging at the doors in Florida to try and stop the recounting of ballots. It was PROVEN that most of them were on the payroll of the party AND none of them were from Florida and had been trucked in.
So since they have done it before, they will do it again. (Your argument against Saddam and chemical weapons)
"Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both boldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar."
- Julius Caesar
[ edited by mlecher on Mar 26, 2003 11:53 AM ]
[ edited by mlecher on Mar 26, 2003 11:53 AM ]
posted on March 26, 2003 12:04:05 PM new
mlecher - Remember the scene of all of those "citizen" protestors banging at the doors in Florida to try and stop the recounting of ballots. It was PROVEN that most of them were on the payroll of the party AND none of them were from Florida and had been trucked in.
I remember that 'scene' differently than you do. It was my understanding that when the ballots were to be recounted, there was supposed to be representation from both sides to witness the recount. No one from the Republican side was being allowed in to act as witnesses. ... those were the one's we saw banging on the door with the small glass window in it.
posted on March 26, 2003 12:21:08 PM new
I think you're misremembering, Linda. As I recall, when those people were banging on the door, what was going on inside wasn't an actual recount, it was a meeting on whether a recount should be made/continued. And we did learn later that those people, as well many of the 'ordinary outraged citizens' at other 'spontaneous' demonstrations were actually Congressional staffers who were trucked down there from D.C. for these staged events.
Daniel Ellsberg was arrested today, again, protesting this war in D.C. When we've got Kissinger making the rounds of the tv shows telling us this war is a good thing, and Ellsberg getting arrested protesting it, we might stop to think - whom should we trust more, and which of them is "anti-American?"
posted on March 26, 2003 12:30:48 PM newwhen those people were banging on the door, what was going on inside wasn't an actual recount, it was a meeting on whether a recount should be made/continued.
I was watching the 'live' TV shoot at the time. I do remember seeing them banging on the outside of the door wanting to be included in the decision making process. That part I'm sure of.
I don't, truthful remember if it was to verify the 'recount' or to be in on the discussion of which ballots would be counted. Speaking here of the BIG dispute about if a chad was 1/2 off, if there was a puncture mark it would/should be counted. etc.
And we did learn later that those people, as well many of the 'ordinary outraged citizens' at other 'spontaneous' demonstrations were actually Congressional staffers who were trucked down there from D.C. for these staged events. Donny, I'm sure you know there are usually people from both sides when ballots are being counted. It wouldn't surprise me at all to know they were flown in or trucked down....especially when this election was as close as it was. And when one party to this was being excluded from any meeting that would effect how the recount would be done, I can and did understand why they were outside pounding on the door. They never should have been excluded in the first place.
posted on March 26, 2003 12:46:37 PM new
I was watching it live also, Linda. What was going on inside was, I believe, a meeting of the election board. If it wasn't the election board, it was the city council. It most certainly was not a case of people inside recounting without adequate Republican oversight.
" "And we did learn later that those people, as well many of the 'ordinary outraged citizens' at other 'spontaneous' demonstrations were actually Congressional staffers who were trucked down there from D.C. for these staged events."
"Donny, I'm sure you know there are usually people from both sides when ballots are being counted." "
Sure, but we aren't talking about ballots being counted, we're talking about fakely 'spur of the moment' demonstrations by 'ordinary citizens,' who were actually on the payroll of Republican Congressmen and bussed down in groups to pretend to have gathered spontaneously.
posted on March 26, 2003 12:49:29 PM new
From a news report...
The controversy continues over Gore campaign claims that Republican protesters from Washington intimidated the Miami-Dade County canvassing board into halting its ballot recount, which may have given Texas Gov. George W. Bush the Nov. 7 election.
Democrats referred to the group as a "violent mob," which went into action when the board tried to move from an open conference room to a smaller space. Dozens of pro-Bush folks banged on walls and the picture window in the reception room and chanted, "Stop the count! Stop the fraud! Let us in!"
But despite all the noise they made, if this group, looking much like a bunch of frat boys yelling about cafeteria food, some still wearing ties and jackets, intimidated the folks in Miami, then things must be a lot worse down there than anyone ever thought.
On the other hand, if this group of mostly House aides actually accomplished what the Democrats allege, then a Bush administration would owe them – "big time," as they say. At least a deputy assistant secretaryship, a Caribbean ambassadorship, maybe consul general to Bermuda.
But who are they? We have some tentatively identified, but if you know
Loop Fans quickly identified those Republican demonstrators at the Miami-Dade County polling headquarters who were featured in a photo in Monday's column. Colleague Ben White called all who were identified. Some calls were returned, some not, but our sources were certain they recognized their friends.
1. Tom Pyle, policy analyst, office of House Majority Whip Tom DeLay (R-Tex.).
2. Garry Malphrus, majority chief counsel and staff director, House Judiciary subcommittee on criminal justice.
3. Rory Cooper, political division staff member at the National Republican Congressional Committee.
4. Kevin Smith, former House Republican conference analyst and more recently of Voter.com.
5. Steven Brophy, former aide to Sen. Fred D. Thompson (R-Tenn.), now working at the consulting firm KPMG.
6. Matt Schlapp, former chief of staff for Rep. Todd Tiahrt (R-Kan.), now on the Bush campaign staff in Austin.
7. Roger Morse, aide to Rep. Van Hilleary (R-Tenn.).
8. Duane Gibson, aide to Chairman Don Young (R-Alaska) of the House Resources Committee.
9. Chuck Royal, legislative assistant to Rep. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.).
10. Layna McConkey, former legislative assistant to former Rep. Jim Ross Lightfoot (R-Iowa), now at Steelman Health Strategies.
posted on March 26, 2003 01:29:11 PM new
So as I said...
They have done it before, they will do it again....
The "violent" peace protestrrs are Neo-Conservative plants on the payroll.
Which is kinda crazy to pay them. I'm sure they could get 12-pole and a few others here to fictiously act violent as a peace-protester. And then come back here and "claim" how violent these Anti-Americans are. Maybe they already have....
"Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both boldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar."
- Julius Caesar
posted on March 26, 2003 01:53:30 PM new
Donny - As usual I will give your memory more credit than mine. But I do disagree with your opinion on their being there being staged. No matter what was going on inside the room.
I remember being so shocked at the time and felt there was absolutely NO reason the representatives for the republican side shouldn't have been involved in WHATEVER issue [I'm not remembering well] regarding the ballots was going on.
posted on March 26, 2003 02:02:01 PM newA bill that would define violent protesters as terrorists and subject them to possible life imprisonment came under attack Monday at a packed and sometimes tense legislative hearing.
posted on March 27, 2003 02:37:05 PM new
I would like to know what the demonstrators hope to accomplish now that a full-blown war is underway in Iraq. I was not for war. I've been in some and know first-hand the horrors they carry with them.
No demonstration is going to stop the war now, so it would be better to direct all that energy in supporting our troops. How do you think they feel hearing that the flag is burned to show discontentment? The burning of the flag should be reserved to the enemies of our country, not our fellow Americans. Our flag represents our country all over the world. It represents our beautiful states of America. It represent us. Every one is entitled to his or her opinion, but don't send messages that can sap the morale of our troops.
Think of what you can do for them. Besides praying, send them letters of encouragement, e-mails, care packages, etc. In other words, funnel your energy to show them that you care. After all, they are obeying orders.
