posted on April 2, 2003 07:02:29 PM new
mlecher - We've only been fighting for two weeks.
The question is not what a man can scorn, or disparage, or find fault with, but what he can love, and value, and appreciate. J. Ruskin
posted on April 2, 2003 07:13:55 PM new
donny: the post about american GI's helping to deliver an Iraqi baby was human interest. Your post, of course, is just anti-American communist propaganda, designed to aid Saddam...
posted on April 2, 2003 07:37:09 PM new
Talking about dead soldiers and civilians littering the landscape of Iraq is not patriotic. You should know that by now.
posted on April 2, 2003 10:00:53 PM new
austbounty said I know one Linda, As of yesterday, a truck load of Iraqi Mothers and Children, including babies is now on their way to meet God. But they left their truck and bodies behind.(or parts thereof) Doesn't that give you goose bumps too?? That's 'acceptable' to you isn't it Linda.
No, austbounty it supports my belief and strengthens my resolve that we are doing the right thing. Any people controlling a government that would force their male citizens to put their women/wifes/mothers in a van and tell them that if they stop at the check point their husbands/sons are going to be killed, are what I call VERY SICK PEOPLE!!!
They forced those women/children into that van knowing full well they were sending them to their deaths. That's how much they value their women and citizens. And since you appear to believe that they should be left in power, I guess that says a lot about you and your support of those type of actions.
The question is not what a man can scorn, or disparage, or find fault with, but what he can love, and value, and appreciate. J. Ruskin
[ edited by Linda_K on Apr 2, 2003 10:02 PM ]
posted on April 2, 2003 11:45:09 PM new
Profe - hehe
Linda - Whoa, whoa whoa.. Slow down.
I understand that the reason of this week for why we're in this war is because the other side is behaving badly in this war, but I think that the version of events you've picked up about what happened with that family at the checkpoint is trash.
"MIAMI - Surviving members of a family whose van was fired on by troops in Iraq (news - web sites) said they were traveling toward allied lines because they thought an air-dropped leaflet had advised them to flee for safety."
You stated: "Maybe I feel so strongly against this war that I can't accept that perspective right now."
-----------------
Are you actually in the minority of Americans that are against this war? Are you actually an American?
Everyone has the right to voice their opinion and I respect that... but.. .it goes both ways... so please respect what I am about to say.
So, if you are AGAINST the war, you must be FOR the following:
- oppression
- hunger
- humility
- death squads
- dictatorship
- zero freedoms (speech, choice, etc)
- on-the-spot executions
- poverty
- no voice in elections
- chemical and biological weapons that can be used on you at the indiscriminate choice of the all-mighty self-serving dictator
- bigger than life statues and posters of the same dictator that offers you all of the above as a reminder of your daily peril
- against life in general
You can't have it both ways - you either support OUR/YOUR/THE troops on this mission of mercy or you support allowing a madman to continue a regime of terror until that terror is at YOUR doorstep.
No one "cheers on war"... except for the "opening day" at the first battle of the U.S. Civil War where Washington D.C. politicians and their families made a picnic day out of it to watch what they thought would be over in a few hours.... sounds familiar huh... only fast-forwarded 142 years and we can watch it from the convenience of our home with play-by-play reports.
War is ugly... and America still hasn't seen the ugliness of what the G.I. sees. An ugly memory that haunts you for the rest of your life. But knowing that your actions have a positive purpose, such as this war, can make ALL of the difference in the mindset of our returning veterans once their task is completed. Show them anything BUT a heroes welcome and you PERSONALLY have undermined the trust and confidence in these young men and women for generations to come. Yes, you, and anyone else that continues to squawk protest for a military action we are ALREADY in.
Time for protests have passed... as has diplomacy... time for accepting the clear fact that we ARE at war is NOW... time for supporting OUR troops and ALL Allied troops is also at hand. Every POSITIVE stroke of support is amplified 100 times or more to every American troop over there or serving here on the homefront and to each member of their families! WITH THIS POSITIVE MOVEMENT THE TROOPS KNOW THAT AMERICA REALLY CARES ABOUT THEM - WHETHER OR NOT THEY FEEL THE WAR SHOULD BE FOUGHT!
In turn, every NEGATIVE comment, anti-war sign or protest march sends a personal negative shock straight down to the boots they are wearing and has the effect on morale multiplied a 1000 times or more. THAT COULD LOSE THE EFFORT TO REACH VICTORY AND END THIS WAR.
America is locked-and-loaded and WILL attain Victory to free the oppressed people of Iraq... whether you support it or not.
Without your support and with the negativity that war protestors eminate, you will be personally responsible for hundreds or thousands of our troops getting killed, injured or captured... PERSONALLY responsible. Why? As professional as our young soldiers are, they are STILL human - they fight to PRESERVE the freedom that you enjoy. They fight to HONOR the country that you live in. They fight to free the oppression that "we the people" recognize and to end a regime that threatens not just their own people, but the freedoms of the free world overall. That's a HEAVY burden to bear... but a proud duty to perform for our military... our husbands, wives, mothers, fathers, brothers, and sisters... our fighting force. A soldier, sailor, airman, marine or guardsman MUST focus on their duty... MUST focus on their orders... without that focus... that professional attitude to adapt, improvise and overcome... our troops can be placed in peril and face defeat... protests and outcries from their "fellow Americans" on the homefront distracts that focus by placing unneeded and unwanted strain on them... a strain that is detrimental to their well-being and to the objectives at hand.
While there is NO war without sacrifice, remember this: For EACH casualty WE as a nation suffer in this conflict, for EACH military member that returns disfigured or maimed, for EACH person that is Missing In Action or "whereabouts unknown", ask yourself, as a protestor... "am I the one that caused that? Am I the reason your son or daughter was Killed In Action? You may never know the answer... may God be with you and your conscience.
I know exactly what my answer will be: "NO, I did not cause that... I personally supported OUR troops, I saluted their valiant effort, I applauded their efforts, I backed them all the way to Victory. I helped, from the homefront, to free an oppressed people in a foreign land and I welcome OUR heroes with open arms.
GREGORY A. WILLIAMS, MSgt, USAF - Retired 1976-1996 8th Air Force, Strategic Air Command, and Air Combat Command
posted on April 3, 2003 04:21:29 AM new
My husband was in the service for 20 years and he told me that service people don't care what the public thinks.
Of course, he's only 1 person, and others could feel differently, but as far as he tells me, no one he ever served with paid any attention to public opinion.
This idea that protesting or disagreeing with this war will cause a death is, I think, foolish. My mother's first husband (my sister's father) got blown to pieces in Italy in WWII, he stepped on a land mine.
Overwhelming public support didn't keep him from getting killed. Maybe there was a guy protesting back then in 1942 that we didn't hear about. I think we should find that guy and ask him why he killed my sister's father like that.
posted on April 3, 2003 07:10:33 AM new
donny - I stand by what I said. Men who were interviewed immediately following the shootings, [first reports coming out] said that was the case when asked why the van full of women and children wouldn't have stopped at the checkpoint, but rather charged through. The soldiers said they had fired a warning shot in the air, they fired at their van radiator, their tires and they just kept coming. So the soldiers fired. Very, very sad, yes...but this is war. Statements were made about they all have received the fliers that instruct them on what to do when approaching the military.
And as far as: [i]but I think that the version of events you've picked up about what happened with that family at the checkpoint is trash[i]. We each choose to believe or not the reports from those we trust. We each are aware that initial reports coming out might have changes made to them at a later time. You might find listening, on occassion, to Gen. Brig. Vincent Brooks [CENTCOM]to be enlighting. That is if you could ever believe anything said by one of our military officers.
GREAT post Retro.
--------------
The question is not what a man can scorn, or disparage, or find fault with, but what he can love, and value, and appreciate. J. Ruskin
posted on April 3, 2003 08:33:04 AM new
:: Donny - I stand by what I said. Men who were interviewed immediately following the shootings, [first reports coming out] said that was the case when asked why the van full of women and children wouldn't have stopped at the checkpoint, but rather charged through. ::
Linda, I caught an interview with one of the commanders of the group that was responsible for the shooting. What he said was that it was a tragic accident. That apparently the woman at the wheel panicked when she heard the warning shot and hit the accelerator rather than the brake.
posted on April 3, 2003 08:52:41 AM newOverwhelming public support didn't keep him from getting killed. Maybe there was a guy protesting back then in 1942 that we didn't hear about. I think we should find that guy and ask him why he killed my sister's father like that.
You're just being silly now....
There were anti-war protestors I am sure back then... but what is so great about living back then, there wasn't this PC BS so they probably got the living hell beat out them...
posted on April 3, 2003 09:05:57 AM new
Linda, there were 17 members of one family in this van... A husband who survived, his 9 month pregnant wife, the man's elderly father and mother, a couple of his brothers, the brother's wives, and assorted children...
And you say that the people controlling the Iraqi government forced the "male citizens to put their women/wifes/mothers in a van and tell them that if they stop at the check point their husbands/sons are going to be killed"??
Who the heck were the people controlling the government threatening to kill, they were all in the van.
And you say that Gen. Brig. Vincent Brooks [CENTCOM] put forth your version?
Well, I think I could believe things said by our military officers, if it was believable. But if anyone told me this, military officer or no, I'd say they were either a damn fool or a liar.
posted on April 3, 2003 09:37:16 AM new
Thanks all.
donny:
"I understand that the reason of this week for why we're in this war is because the other side is behaving badly in this war, but I think that the version of events you've picked up about what happened with that family at the checkpoint is trash.
-----
Well I personally didn't "pick up" on anything. On hearing of the van busting the checkpoint and NOT stopping after MANY warnings, shots, etc. I derived this was another act of terrorism based on the following information:
1. The previous "taxi car bomb" that killed four of OUR troops.
2. The statement by the enemy regime that many, many more of these actions will occur.
3. The statement from the enemy calling ALL to "take the chance" in the call of jihad.. to include women and children.
4. Typical action expected from a desperate terrorist and oppressing regime.
With all of the above actions being fulfilled, is it any WONDER that the enemy would DRAW our troops into slaughtering their OWN civilians in order to place NEGATIVE world view on OUR troops? No surprise at all. They use them as shields.
Despite the media, despite the on-site interviews, despite every word written about this "tragic" incident, you have to REMEMBER what and WHO we are dealing with. A MADMAN WHO IS NOW EXTREMELY DESPERATE AND CLOSE TO LOSING HIS SELF-APPOINTED (100% of votes)PRESIDENCY WITH ALL OF THE MOOLAH AND EXTRAVAGANCES. His sons are also losing their inheritance. They are pulling out all stops to try and preserve the "cash hog" they have been living high on at the mercy of their own people.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist or a military analyst to see the "tragic van incident" for what it really was... a flight of terrorism. I doubt the entire van occupants were inducted to commit suicide... I'm sure only the DRIVER was. Yes, a female driver WILLING to NOT STOP at the wavedown, NOT STOP at the warning shot(s), NOT STOP once the tires were shot, NOT STOP when the engine was fired upon... but to CONTINUE and SUCCEED in driving the van and passengers to Allah at the hand of the "Barbarian American Forces" all in the name of jihad.
That my friend is the TYPE of terrorism we are trying to suppress. That is the reason OUR troops are there.
How would YOU react while driving a van full of women and children while approaching a MILITARY checkpoint with ARMED soldiers plainly in site? A person in their RIGHT mind would slow down... would look for direction from the soldiers, would follow those directions for FEAR of causing harm to your passengers and/or yourself.
Hand signals at military checkpoints are clear and universally recognizeable - The sound of warning shots from M-16 rifles is unmistakeable that the soldiers are SERIOUS - Getting your tires shot out from under you is a clear sign that where you are headed is the WRONG direction - and if you are STILL having trouble understanding, the bullets in the engine block should have enlightened you by this time. - NO LANGUAGE BARRIER ON ANY OF THESE ACTIONS!
OUR soldiers did the right thing - they faced the enemy and met the enemy on their terms. The enemy came to them and requested... no DEMANDED... slaughter through this terrorist act.
One person... the driver. One terrorist... the driver. One reason - public opinion.
If you fall into believing this was an innocent misinterpretation of the "arabic language instructions" on the leaflets in question, and believe this was ANYTHING other than an intentional act of terrorism straight from Saddam's regime, then you are extremely shallow in your observations.
Send a suicide car bomber to a checkpoint - beckon the soldiers over - blow them and yourself up - OBVIOUS (OVERT) TERRORISM
Next step... HIDDEN (COVERT) TERRORISM... watch your enemy change their operating procedures at military checkpoints knowing there is a more heightened awareness for SUICIDE CAR BOMBERS - as a master of terror, cash in on that FOCUS and send ANOTHER suicide driver without any explosives, but with innocent women and children on board - you want to PROVE to the world that the "bastard invading western pigs" are killing innocent civilians, so you MAKE it happen... your suicide DRIVER is instructed to IGNORE ALL WARNINGS, to DRIVE...DRIVE...DRIVE... to meet Allah.. knowing that your "van of terror" will be HEAVILY fired upon by your enemy and in the aftermath there are no explosives to be found... there are no weapons to be found... in all appearances it was a "sunday school class" on its way to safety... the "BAD" guy is NOW the Soldiers that "SLAUGHTERED" the innocents. As a dictator, as a madman, as a desperate measure you know otherwise... you know that it was your ingenious plot of terrorism that slaughtered these civilians, that tilted world opinion.. if only for a moment.. towards YOUR cause... the cause to survive and continue your acts of terror.
The disturbing part is this type of terrorism can happen RIGHT HERE in America. Right in your backyard... or front yard. You may not be as distant from this war as you think.
SUPPORT OUR TROOPS
BACK THE ATTACK - FREE IRAQ
[ edited by RetroBargains on Apr 3, 2003 09:44 AM ]
'I saw the heads of my two little girls come off'
April 2 2003, 11:38 AM
An Iraqi mother in a van fired on by US soldiers says she saw her two young daughters decapitated in the incident that also killed her son and eight other members of her family.
The children's father, who was also in the van, said US soldiers fired on them as they fled towards a checkpoint because they thought a leaflet dropped by US helicopters told them to "be safe", and they believed that meant getting out of their village to Karbala.
Bakhat Hassan - who lost his daughters, aged two and five, his three-year-old son, his parents, two older brothers, their wives and two nieces aged 12 and 15, in the incident - said US soldiers at an earlier checkpoint had waved them through.
As they approached another checkpoint 40km south of Karbala, they waved again at the American soldiers.
"We were thinking these Americans want us to be safe," Hassan said through an Army translator at a Mobile Army Surgical Hospital set up at a vast Army support camp near Najaf.
The soldiers didn't wave back. They fired.
"I saw the heads of my two little girls come off," Hassan's heavily pregnant wife, Lamea, 36, said numbly.
She repeated herself in a flat, even voice: "My girls - I watched their heads come off their bodies. My son is dead."
US officials originally gave the death toll from the incident as seven, but reporters at the scene placed it at 10. And Bakhat Hassan terrible toll was 11 members of his family.
Hassan's father died at the Army hospital later.
US officials said the soldiers at an Army checkpoint who opened fire were following orders not to let vehicles approach checkpoints.
On Saturday, a suicide bomber had killed four US soldiers outside Najaf.
Details emerging from interviews with survivors of yesterday's incident tell a distressing tale of a family fleeing towards what they thought would be safety, tragically misunderstanding instructions.
Hassan's father, in his 60s, wore his best clothes for the trip through the American lines: a pinstriped suit.
"To look American," Hassan said.
An Army report written last night cited "a miscommunication with civilians" as the cause of the incident.
Hassan, his wife and another of his brothers are in intensive care at the MASH unit.
Another brother, sister-in-law and a seven-year-old child were released to bury the dead.
The Shi'ite family of 17 was packed into a 1974 Land Rover, so crowded that Bakhat, 35, was outside on the rear bumper hanging on to the back door.
Everyone else was piled on one another's laps in three sets of seats.
They were fleeing their farm town southeast of Karbala, where US attack helicopters had fired missiles and rockets the day before.
Helicopters also had dropped leaflets on the town: a drawing of a family sitting at a table eating and smiling with a message written in Arabic.
Sergeant 1st Class Stephen Furbush, an Army intelligence analyst, said the message read: "To be safe, stay put."
But Hassan said he and his father thought it just said: "Be safe".
To them, that meant getting away from the helicopters firing rockets and missiles.
His father drove. They planned to go to Karbala. They stopped at an Army checkpoint on the northbound road near Sahara, about 40km south of Karbala, and were told to go on, Hassan said.
But "the Iraqi family misunderstood" what the soldiers were saying, Furbush said.
A few kilometres later, a Bradley Fighting Vehicle came into view. The family waved as it came closer. The soldiers opened fire.
Hassan remembers an Army medic at the scene of the killings speaking Arabic.
"He told us it was a mistake and the soldiers were sorry," Hassan said.
"They believed it was a van of suicide bombers," Furbush said.
Hassan, his wife, his father and a brother were airlifted to the MASH unit.
Three doctors and three nurses worked on the father for four hours but he died despite their efforts.
Today, Hassan and his wife remain at the unit. He has staples in his head. She has a mangled hand and shrapnel in her face and shoulder.
Major Scott McDannold, an anaesthesiologist, said Hassan's brother, lying nearby, wouldn't make it. He is on a respirator with a broken neck.
On March 16, Hassan and his family began to harvest tomatoes, cucumbers, scallions and eggplant. It was a healthy crop, and they expected a good year.
"We had hope," he said. "But then you Americans came to bring us democracy and our hope ended."
Lamea is nine months pregnant.
"It would be better not to have the baby," she said.
posted on April 3, 2003 10:07:16 AM new
From the above article you can see how well this terroristic act worked in tilting the power of the press and public opinion.
You have to read through the garbage people and see what is really there.
SUPPORT OUR TROOPS
BACK THE ATTACK - FREE IRAQ
Greg Williams
Retro Bargains
www.retrobargains.com
posted on April 3, 2003 10:17:53 AM new
Oh yeah, the T word. Terrorism!
A car bomb that targets a military checkpoint is not terrorism. Every definition of terrorism recognizes that terrorism is directed at civilian targets. A car bomb that targets military is not terrorism. It's (inefficent) warfare.
In spite of the way that the U.S. spokespeople have been trying to frame it as terrorism, it isn't. I heard the army guy with Victoria Clarke say something like this - "It looks and feels like terrorism," thereby leaving the audience to obligingly finish the thought - it's terrorism!
The car bomb at the military checkpoint is akin to Kamikaze pilots in WWII, and not like suicide bombers at restaurants or other civilian areas. Bah.
This stuff about the van full of coerced suiciders is ridiculous. One of the survivors tells what happened, I posted the link to the news story.
You know, I don't think the soldiers who fired on that van are "the bad guys." I think it was a tragic mishap. However, the propoganda from our side is way past ridiculous.
The cognitive dissonance a person would have to practice to reconcile what the U.S. spin is with what is more like the truth would drive anyone who can recognize the difference close to distraction.
posted on April 3, 2003 10:47:50 AM new
The State Department's definition of terrorism still remains as that stated below, I believe.
"Premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents, usually intended to influence an audience."
Don Quixote is the neoconservative prototype.
posted on April 3, 2003 10:51:19 AM new
What a tragic accident!
RetroBargain,
There is no evidence that this is typical terrorism based only on previous history in which one event is considered along with a previous threat by the government.
To see this accident as attempted terrorism based on such limited and possibly unrelated information is not reasonable. I prefer to see a case based on facts and reliable evidence pertinent to this case.
posted on April 3, 2003 12:29:48 PM new
The problem with "noncombatant targets" arises when the military becomes necessary to combat the terrorists.
Is it action against noncombatant targets when the military are called in to man roadblocks because the police are out gunned and lack armoured equipment?
posted on April 3, 2003 12:40:39 PM new
Thank you Junquemama, Helen, Donny, Antiquary... Uncle Saddam is proud of you and all like you who are playing right into his hands... he devised this scenario when he had his people start dressing as civilians, perform suicide bombings and other acts outside the normal bounds of warfare, therefore when we take action, this is the response from the anti-war protestors he wanted... you should all give Saddam your next pay check because he sure is the one pulling your strings...
I would rather see 5 million dead Iraqis than one dead Coalition soldier due to death because they let a van stop next to them and blow itself up or gunned down by Iraqis using women and kids as shields.
Saddam set the stage.... if his people want to go play... then they pay the price.
Whether she stepped on the gas by mistake or not, she didn't stop.... at least this will let others know that stop means stop.
posted on April 3, 2003 01:03:08 PM new
"...he devised this scenario when he had his people start dressing as civilians, perform suicide bombings and other acts outside the normal bounds of warfare, therefore when we take action..."
We were already shooting civilians in cars about 2 days after the war started, long before the suicide car bomber at the checkpoint. But the way the spin is played, you'd think that the van thing would never have happened if not for the car suicide bomber. Well, maybe, or maybe not.
Remember how it was reported that Iraq was buying U.S. military uniforms to engage in civilian atrocities that would be attributed to Americans? It's even more dastardly now, apparently Iraqis are disguising themselves as U.S. dropped cluster bombs and dismembering civilians.
Everyone knows that civilians are going to be killed in war, but do we have to go on and on with this pretense that we're suprised each time and we're never responsible for it? I don't want my government to tell me one more time that - we're doing everything we can to make sure civilians aren't injured. Sure, everything they can except for not having this war.
All this junk about embedded reporters showing us the reality of war is propoganda. They show us war without blood and pain. That's not what war is. Delivering babies is unexpected. Killing civilians isn't, yet they way the spin is you'd think we'd gone over there to deliver this baby, and the injured civilians aren't even people any more, they're collateral damage. I suppose my link about the people caught in the crossfire at the bridge wasn't really a human interest story. It was a collateral damage interest story.
And while it apparently never occurs to us that at least some of these people in civilian clothing firing at us aren't "military in civilian clothing," but "civilians in civilian clothing," because that would mess up our propoganda about how everyone loves us, this stuff about a civilian feeding the troops is played for all it's worth, and then some.
My own government shouldn't have to resort to such overblown propoganda. When it does, it makes me even more skeptical than I usually am. Plenty of people are credulous enough though.
posted on April 3, 2003 06:37:16 PM new
Iraqi informer angered by treatment of POW
By JUAN O. TAMAYO
Knight Ridder Newspapers
MARINE COMBAT HEADQUARTERS, Iraq - The Iraqi man who tipped U.S. Marines to the location of American POW Jessica Lynch said Thursday he did so after he saw her Iraqi captor slap her twice as she lay wounded in a hospital.
"A person, no matter his nationality, is a human being," the tipster, a 32-year-old lawyer whose wife was a nurse at the hospital, said in an interview at Marines' headquarters, where he, his wife and daughter are being treated as heroes and guests of honor.
"He is an extremely courageous man who should serve as an inspiration to all of us to do the right thing," said Lt. Col. Rick Long, spokesman for the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force.
After he saw Lynch slapped, the lawyer slipped into her room at the Saddam Hospital in Nasiriyah and told her, "Don't worry." Then he walked six miles to the nearest U.S. Marines and told them where she was.
He later returned to the hospital, at the request of U.S. commanders, to map the facility and count how many Saddam Hussein loyalists were there.
A U.S. commando force whose name remains secret rescued Lynch early Wednesday local time. She was taken Thursday to Germany for treatment of injuries she suffered when she was captured.
The lawyer, whose first name is Mohammed and who asked that his last name not be published, smiled between every sentence as he recounted in broken but expressive English how he helped the Americans. He learned English at Basra University.
Wearing Marine hand-me-downs after fleeing with only the clothes on their backs, Mohammed, his wife Iman, 32, a nurse at Saddam Hospital, and 6-year-old daughter Abir, seemed surprisingly cheerful for a family on the run.
Grateful Leathernecks showered them with Marine unit patches, a commemorative coin and an American flag on their way to a refugee center near the port of Umm Qsar, where they hope to ride out the war.
"I love America. I like America. Why, I don't know," Mohammed said as he recounted the critical role he played in Lynch's rescue.
Iraqi President Saddam Hussein has long repressed Iraq's people with such a brutal grip that even with American troops at the gates to Baghdad many refuse to rise up against him out of fear that he will outlast the Americans.
But Mohammed's tale is one of a man who didn't like what he saw when he walked into the Saddam Hospital last Friday to visit his wife and was told by a doctor friend that an American woman POW was in the emergency ward.
The friend walked him to the ground-floor ward, taken over by the feared Saddam Fedayeen at the start of the war, and past a window where he saw Lynch, an Army private first class captured after her convoy became lost near Nasiriyah in the opening days of the war.
Her head was bandaged, her right arm was in a sling over a white blanket and she had what Mohammed thought was a gunshot wound to a leg. But her real problem then was the black-uniformed Fedayeen commander who everyone addressed as "colonel."
The man slapped her, Mohammed said. "One, two," he added, making single slapping and back slap motions with his right hand. She was very brave, he recalled.
"My heart cut," Mohammed added, meaning stopped, putting his hand over his chest and grimacing. "There, I have decided to go to Americans to give them important information about the woman prisoner."
He walked into her room with his doctor friend. "I said 'Good morning.' She thought I was a doctor. I say, 'Don't worry.' She smiled," he recalled.
Doctors treating Lynch wanted to amputate her leg, Mohammed said, but his doctor friend persuaded them not to. His friend, he said, "hates Saddam Hussein and hates security of Saddam Hussein."
Mohammed said he told his wife to take their daughter to his father's house for safety, and then set off on foot to find the American troops he had heard were occupying the edges of Nasiriyah.
"This was very dangerous for me because American soldiers shoot," he said, throwing up his hands in the air to show how he carefully approached what turned out to be the U.S. Marines.
He told them about the woman prisoner, and about a U.S. military uniform he had also seen, presumably of a U.S. soldier killed in the fighting in and around Nasiriyah, some of the heaviest of the war.
They asked him to return to the six-story, 234-bed hospital to gather information on its layout, its hallways, stairways and doors, its basement and whether a helicopter could land on its roof.
He walked back, with no taxis in sight, even as U.S. jets bombed parts of the city of more than 500,000 people. "Boom, boom. I walked under bombs. Fire, Fire," Mohammed recalled.
He did the same thing the next day to report back to the Marines.
There were 41 Fedayeen based at the hospital, with four guarding Lynch's room in civilian clothes but armed with AK-47 assault rifles and carrying radios.
"I drew them a map. I drew them five maps," he said, plainly relishing his cloak-and-dagger missions into the heart of Saddam's terror network.
Fedayeen raided his house the next day, he said, taking away all his possessions and even his car, a Russian-made Muscovitch Brazilia 680. He said a neighbor was shot and her body dragged through the streets just for waving at a U.S. helicopter.
"Very bad people," he said. "There is no kindness in my heart for them."
He got his family out of Nasiriyah on Tuesday night, hours before a task force of U.S. commandos rescued Lynch in a raid so noteworthy that the U.S. Central Command in Qatar called a 4:30 a.m. news conference to announce it.
Four American journalists who have had regular access to the Marines' combat operations center in southern Iraq were asked to stay away from the COC as the rescue operation was getting underway.
Mohammed and his family are now officially "temporary refugees."
After showers, Mohammed put on an oversized green Marine pullover, his wife put on one of the gray T-shirts that MTV donated to the Leathernecks and his daughter was covered to her knees in a green T-shirt from a Marine chemical warfare unit.
But Mohammed did not appear despondent, as his wife smiled and stayed shyly in the background and daughter Abir played with a neon-green illumination stick given to her by a Marine.
"I am very happy," he said, adding that his wife wants to work in a hospital helping Americans and that he is eager to help the Marines any way he can until he can return home to Nasiriyah and resume his normal life.
"In future, when Saddam Hussein down, I will go back to Nasiriyah because my house and office are there," he said. As for the Fedayeen, he said, "when Saddam Hussein down, I sure they go away."
"Believe me, not only I, all the people of Iraq, not the people in the government, like Americans," Mohammed said. "They want to help the Americans, but they are all afraid."
"Be kind. Remember everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle." - Harry Thompson
posted on April 4, 2003 04:48:37 AM new
"Car Bomb in Iraq Kills 3 Coalition Soldiers"
The statement said a civilian vehicle approached the checkpoint and a pregnant woman stepped out and began screaming. When coalition soldiers approached, the vehicle exploded, killing three soldiers, and wounding two others.
Austy,
I don't have a lot of pull with the US Air Force but just maybe I could get you dropped off in Baghdad by one of the B52's that are flying over.
You could scream your anti-American Crap all the way down. Maybe become a martyr.
As 12 would so apyly put it. Screw you commies.
Amen,
feeling a little pis*sey a*sed this morning,
Reverend Colin
posted on April 4, 2003 08:58:01 AM new
COLIN: Can I personally pack Aust's parachute? pack it with lots of a..a..I..rocks. <g>
MLECHER: Regarding the WOMD... and finding them... your question poses the entire problem of all anti-American viewpoints. It contains key words of WE and YET. "Have we found WOMD yet" - WE are the SUPPORTERS of this action... WE are the ones looking and will find those WOMD... YET infers your impatience and lack of knowledge of OUR enemy and YOUR friend... Saddam. WOMD will be found... in due time. Let me remind your kind that NAZI buried weapons caches and unexploded ordinance from WWII are STILL being discovered to this day throughout Europe. But, I suppose you are naive enough to think in Baghdad's busy market places one could walk up to a cart or table and pick and choose from a myriad selection of WOMD. Hmmm. And your quote by Julius Ceasar is cute. Large but cute.
Lest we ALL forget about the type of person Saddam Hussein WAS, let me offer the following:
ALL OF THE QUOTES (AND MORE) ARE FOUND AT THE FOLLOWING LINK:
================================
SADDAM HUSSEIN: IN HIS OWN WORDS
================================
Quotes from Saddam and Iraq's regime-controlled media.
For years, Saddam Hussein and his regime have used state-controlled media in Iraq to spread lies, and threaten his neighbors and the world. Below is a sampling of quotes from Saddam and the Iraqi media -- keyed to significant events -- showing a pattern of threats stretching back more than a decade.
THE GULF WAR, February 1991
"We will chase [Americans] to every corner at all times. No high tower of steel will protect them against the fire of truth."
Saddam Hussein, Baghdad Radio, February 8, 1991
-----
"Every Iraqi child, woman, and old man knows how to take revenge...They will avenge the pure blood that has been shed no matter how long it takes.
Baghdad Domestic Service, February 15, 1991
(State-controlled)
-----
"[I]t is possible to turn to biological attack, where a small can, not bigger than the size of a hand, can be used to release viruses that affect everything..." Babil, September 20, 2001
(State-controlled newspaper)
-----
"[W]hen peoples reach the verge of collective death, they will be able to spread death to all..." Al-Jumhuriyah, October 4, 1994
(State-controlled newspaper)
------
"If the attacks of September 11 cost the lives of 3,000 civilians, how much will the size of losses in 50 states within 100 cities if it were attacked in the same way in which New York and Washington were? What would happen if hundreds of planes attacked American cities?"
posted on April 4, 2003 09:16:52 AM new
I like quotes too.
"You don't need to be smart to be president"
--Republican Congressman J.C. Watts - said at a February campaign appearance on Bush's behalf. Washington Post, 6/11/00
"I think anybody who doesn't think I'm smart enough to handle the job is underestimating."
--U.S. News & World Report, April 3, 2000
"Rarely is the question asked: is our children learning"
--Florence, SC, Jan. 11, 2000
"Actually, I -- this may sound a little West Texan to you, but I like it. When I'm talking about -- when I'm talking about myself, and when he's talking about myself, all of us are talking about me."
--Hardball, MSNBC, May 31, 2000
"It's clearly a budget. It's got a lot of numbers in it."
--Reuters, May 5, 2000
"I think we agree, the past is over."
--On his meeting with John McCain, Dallas Morning News, May 10, 2000
"Laura and I really don't realize how bright our children is sometime until we get an objective analysis."
--Meet the Press, April 15, 2000
"I was raised in the West. The west of Texas. It's pretty close to California. In more ways than Washington, D.C., is close to California."
--Los Angeles Times, April 8, 2000
"We want our teachers to be trained so they can meet the obligations; their obligations as teachers. We want them to know how to teach the science of reading. In order to make sure there's not this kind of federal cufflink."
--Fritsche Middle School, Milwaukee, March 30, 2000
"The fact that he relies on facts -- says things that are not factual -- are going to undermine his campaign."
--New York Times, March 4, 2000
"It is not Reaganesque to support a tax plan that is Clinton in nature."
--Los Angeles, Feb. 23, 2000
"I understand small business growth. I was one."
--New York Daily News, Feb. 19, 2000
"How do you know if you don't measure if you have a system that simply suckles kids through?"
--Explaining the need for educational accountability, Beaufort, S.C.,Feb.16, 2000
"The senator has got to understand if he's going to have he can't have it both ways. He can't take the high horse and then claim the low road."
--To reporters in Florence, S.C., Feb. 17, 2000
"If you're sick and tired of the politics of cynicism and polls and principles, come and join this campaign."
--Hilton Head, S.C., Feb. 16, 2000
"We ought to make the pie higher."
-South Carolina Republican Debate, Feb. 15, 2000
"I've changed my style somewhat, as you know. I'm less, I pontificate less, although it may be hard to tell it from this show. And I'm more interacting with people."
--Meet The Press, Feb. 13, 2000
"I think we need not only to eliminate the tollbooth to the middle class, I think we should knock down the tollbooth."
--Nashua, N.H., as quoted by Gail Collins, New York Times, Feb. 1, 2000
"The most important job is not to be governor, or first lady in my case."
--Pella, Iowa, as quoted in the San Antonio Express News, Jan. 30, 2000"
"This is Preservation Month. I appreciate preservation. It's what you do when you run for president. You gotta preserve."
--Speaking during Perseverance Month at Fairgrounds Elementary School in Nashua, N.H.
"I know how hard it is for you to put food on your family."
--Greater Nashua, N.H., Chamber of Commerce, Jan. 27, 2000
"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."
--At a South Carolina oyster roast; quoted in the Financial Times, Jan.14, 2000
"There needs to be debates, like we're going through. There needs to be townhall meetings. There needs to be travel. This is a huge country."
--Larry King Live, Dec. 16, 1999
"The important question is, How many hands have I shaked?"
--Answering a question about why he hasn't spent more time in New Hampshire; quoted in the New York Times, Oct. 23, 1999
"Keep good relations with the Grecians."
--Quoted in the Economist, June 12, 1999
"When it is all said and done, I will have made more money than I ever dreamed I would make."
--Source & Date unknown (please email us the source if you know)
"I don't remember debates. I don't think we spent a lot of time debating it. Maybe we did, but I don't remember."
--On discussing the Vietnam War as an undergraduate at Yale, in the Washington Post, July 27, 1999
"Put the 'off' button on."
--South Carolina, February 14, 2000
"I did denounce it. I de-I denounced it. I denounced interracial dating. I denounced anti-Catholic bigacy... bigotry."
--Referring to his Bob Jones University visit and the subsequent criticism, Virginia, February 25, 2000
"We believe in opportunity for all Americans: Rich and poor, black and white...."
--From a speech at Bob Jones Univ., in South Carolina, 2/2/00
"We must all hear the universal call to like your neighbor just like you like to be liked yourself."
--George W. Bush puts an interesting twist on Jesus Christ's proverb: "Love thy neighbor." (Quote is from the Financial Times)
"I would have said yes to abortion if only it was right. I mean, yeah it's right. Well no it's not right that's why I said no to it."
--South Carolina, February 14,2000
"My [tax cut] plan is realistic because it avoids meaningless 15-year projections."
--George W. Bush goes to extraordinary lengths to defend his tax cut plan. (Quote is from a Bush speech in Iowa, 12/1/99)
"The fundamental question is: 'Will I be a successful president when it comes to foreign policy?' I will be, but until I'm the president, it's going to be hard for me to verify that I think I'll be more effective."
--New York Times, 7/28/99
"There ought to be limits to freedom"
--at a Press conference at the Texas State House, May 21, 1999, referring to GWBush.com
"We have struggle to not proceed but to preceed to the future of a nation's child."
--Journal Gazette 11/12/00
"My opponent seems to think that Social Security is a federal program. I believe that money is yours and you should be able to invest it yourself."
-The final Presidential debate
"Down in Washington they're playing with Social Security like it's some kind of government program!"
-NBC Nightly News (Date unknown, anyone out there know?)
"The reason we start a war is to fight a war, win a war, thereby causing no more war!"
--The first Presidential debate
"They said, 'You know, this issue doesn't seem to resignate [sic] with the people.' And I said, you know something? Whether it resignates [sic] or not doesn't matter to me, because I stand for doing what's the right thing, and what the right thing is hearing the voices of people who work.
--Portland, Ore., Oct. 31, 2000
"It's your money. You paid for it."
--LaCrosse, Wis., Oct. 18, 2000
"It's important for us to explain to our nation that life is important. It's not only life of babies, but it's life of children living in, you know, the dark dungeons of the Internet.
-Arlington Heights, Ill., Oct. 24, 2000
"If affirmative action means what I just described, what I'm for, then I'm for it."
--The Presidential Debates. St. Louis, Mo., October 18, 2000
"It's going to require numerous IRA agents."
--On Gore's tax plan, Greensboro, N.C., Oct. 10, 2000
"I don't think we need to be subliminable [sic] about the differences between our views on prescription drugs."
--Orlando, Fla., Sept. 12, 2000. He then repeatedly mispronounced the word after his press conference.
"I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully"
--Saginaw, Mich., Sept. 29, 2000
"Will the highways on the Internet become more few?"
--Concord, N.H., Jan. 29, 2000
"It is clear our nation is reliant upon big foreign oil. More and more of our imports come from overseas."
--Beaverton, Ore., Sep. 25, 2000
"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier...just as long as I'm the dictator..."
--Washington, DC, Dec 18, 2000, during his first trip to Washington as President-Elect
"That's a chapter, the last chapter of the 20th, 20th, the 21st century that most of us would rather forget. The last chapter of the 20th century. This is the first chapter of the 21st century."
--On the Lewinsky scandal, Arlington Heights, Ill., Oct. 24, 2000"
"Families is where our nation finds hope, where wings take dream."
—LaCrosse, Wis., Oct. 18, 2000"
"There's a huge trust. I see it all the time when people come up to me and say, 'I don't want you to let me down again.'"
— Boston, Massachusetts, October 3, 2000
"I think if you know what you believe, it makes it a lot easier to answer questions. I can't answer your question"
--Reynoldsburg, Ohio, October 4, 2000
"You teach a child to read and he or her will be able to pass a literacy test."
--February 21, 2001 - President Bush at Townsend Elementary School, touting his education reform plans.
