posted on April 6, 2003 07:04:01 PM new
...from a friend of mine - looks like maybe whoever penned it is having a rough day
Don't get me wrong, I DO agree with a good part of it, but WOW! didn't know about the stamp! Personally, I prefer to buy regular postage stamps with American flags on them
"Instead of offering 30 Billion to Turkey, how about we tell them instead that we will immediately STOP every damn cent of foreign aid, military aid, poverty aid, AIDS aid, band aid and anything else that comes from America?
That goes for the U.N too. In fact, let's not only stop our aid (U.S. supplies 90% of the entire U.N. "budget" but let's cut them off and give them 90 days to move to France.
America is the very reason Europe exists. Africa is dying by the zillions because they can't comprehend civilization or even what causes aids.
Turkey... they're 3/4 Muslim and just revealed their true opinion. But they certainly want that 30 Billion.
Start naming the nations that have their hands out begging for their "entitlement" and freebies,and then revile us. It's a long list. Does it seem to you like there is something fundamentally wrong with this picture?
Question:What could we do with all of that foreign aid if we spent it in The United States of America?
...How about college tuition for every American kid that wants an education and will maintain a "c" average or better? ...How about eliminating your income tax? ...How about replacing 90% of our interstate highway system and adding to it? ...How about wiping out the National Debt?
...There is something about paying taxes and being "in debt" for money we give to Turkey, Africa, the U.N. and all the other ungrateful tribes that bothers us.
...How about rebuilding the World Trade Center?
Dear Fellow Patriotic Americans:
...REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of Pan-Am Flight 103,
...REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the World Trade Center in 1993,
...REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the Marine Barracks in Lebanon, ...
REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the military Barracks in Saudi Arabia,
...REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the American Embassies in Africa,
...REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the USS COLE,
...REMEMBER the MUSLIM attack on the World Trade Center on 9/11/01,
...REMEMBER the MUSLIM attack on the Pentagon on 9/11/01...
...REMEMBER all the AMERICAN lives that were lost in those vicious MUSLIM attacks.
Now the United States Postal Service REMEMBERS and HONORS the MUSLIM with a first class postage stamp. You are strongly urged to REMEMBER to adamantly and vocally BOYCOTT this stamp when purchasing your stamps at the post office. To use this stamp would be a slap in the face to all those AMERICANS who died at the hands of those whom this stamp honors.
I also strongly urge you to pass this along to every Patriotic American you know, whether by e-mail or otherwise."
"Be kind. Remember everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle." - Harry Thompson
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it." - A Few Good Men
posted on April 6, 2003 07:24:27 PM new
Well. I am a muslim and know for a fact that what happened on 9-11 had nothing to do with the true teachings of Islam. I wish the world could wake up and call their bluff on their flimsy excuse. You can know a person by their behaviour regardless of how many times a day they bow to mecca. We should not buy in to their wrongfully usurped term and not perpetuate the myth that these guys are islamic or muslim.
As for the foreign aid... Yep I agree with you wholeheartedly. My dad once had a dog put to sleep for attacking him everytime he tried to feed him.
And the very notion that Russia, China, France and those other jerks at the UN want to eat the bread that the American Mother hen sacrified her own blood to bake is just too far over the line for me.......
posted on April 6, 2003 07:29:57 PM new
Regarding the stamp. It says "In the name of God the merciful and compassionate. and if it service to remind muslims of the nature of their religion by all means purchase it and pass it on. Christians have an annual Christmas stamp. Jews have a Hanukkah stamp. African Americans have a Kwanzaa stamp, the Hispanic community has a Cinco de Maya stamp (and it isnt even an American holiday).. etc./
Please do not mix us the attacks on american interests with the term muslim. Those extremists stole the term and hide their evil intentions behind it in the hope that it will protect them. You could do alot to help us redeem the term by ripping that mask of of their actions every time you get a chance.
posted on April 6, 2003 08:50:46 PM new
Wow! Totally agree about the foreign aid, but disagree about the stamp. The thinking behind the whole diatribe against the muslims falls in line with the internment of the Japanese in WWII.
We're all bowing before the same God, we just have different ways of doing it. AND...there are crazies out there in every skin color and of every religion.
"Who's tending the bar? Sniping works up a thirst"
posted on April 6, 2003 09:18:06 PM new
simplistic and hateful...not worth the electrons it took to send...I'd say whoever penned it has had more than one bad day...
posted on April 7, 2003 12:22:32 AM new
It IS true that most religions have the same moral underpinnings. When speaking negatively about Muslims, I don't think the anger is about religion.
In Christian America, if some wacko shoots an abortion doctor, virtually every Christian leader of any kind from Reverend to Bishop to Church Head goes to any pulpit available and immediately repudiates the incident and banishes the responsible forever to their particular hell.
While you may hear a small token of Muslim clerics say something negative, most of what you hear is that it's our fault, or about Palestine or the Crusades, etc.
Perception can be wrong, but it can also mirror truth.
posted on April 7, 2003 04:10:54 AM new
I would no more blame the acts of some Muslims on all Muslims just as I would not blame the acts of some Christians on all Christians. Remember that the KKK all claim to be Christians. How about the Catholics vs. the Protestants in Ireland? How many are killed there on a daily basis over religion? There are fanatics in every culture and there are also those stupid enough to follow them. My Muslim neighbors are the best neighbors I have. They are a quiet, considerate, polite and peaceful family that condemns those that commit atrocities in the name of Allah. For centuries, religion has been used as an excuse to commit heinous crimes and it hasn't been just by Muslims. So, yes, I would buy the stamp.
As for foreign aid, who has come to our aid? What of the depression? Am I wrong in saying we went that one alone? When all my grandmother had to eat was potatoes for breakfast, lunch and dinner, where was the rest of the world? I don't think we should ignore the ills of the world, as Americans that's not in our nature. I also don't think we should send money overseas first then think of our people second. How do you operate as a responsible person? If you have a stack of bills in one hand, and in the other is a blastin' stereo you'd like to have, of course you pay your bills first. If there's any left over, you buy the stereo. Same logic applies. Why the government finds it so difficult to think in this manner is beyond me. Maybe there are too may rich, spoiled brats sitting on Capitol Hill to see the suffering going on in this country.
While money to fight AIDS worldwide (especially in Third World countries) is much needed, the education needed to PREVENT AIDS is an even more pressing issue. Now we have SARS. Sure, figure out you have an epidemic on your hands and send everyone back to their own country on a damn airplane. There's common sense for you. Let's spread it some more. If memory serves me, AIDS came to this country via. air transportation and one stupid, uneducated, hot panted individual.
Yes, buy the stamp! No, don't send any money overseas until you take care of your own.
posted on April 7, 2003 03:18:00 PM new
desquirrel
You’ve got no idea.
You reckon that if a wacko perpetrates an act “In Christian America,…..every Christian leader……..banishes the responsible” (what about paedophiles??)
“While you may hear a small token of Muslim clerics say something negative, most of what you hear is that it's our fault, or about Palestine or the Crusades, etc.”
guardcat is the only Jew or Muslim I have seen admit their faith on this chatline.
I can only recall one person admitting to have a mother who was ‘part Jewish’.
By openly declaring his/her ‘hand’ we are able to scrutinise guardcat’s comments for bias.
He has come forward showing his colours and the other Semites are still under a shroud.
“Perception can be wrong, but it can also mirror truth.”
The only truth mirrored by wgm & yourself is that you live in a Strongly-Jewish-Influenced-Society and have learned to be only anti-certain-Semites.
You are either blind being bluffed by the likes of those that will not ‘show their hand’ and those that go along with them, or you are one and just perpetuating more hatred.
“Perception can be wrong,”
Please correct me if my perception is wrong in seeing so many Jewish sounding names in the PNAC.
Do the words anti-American or anti-Semite carry much strength in your minds eye. Well I bet you don’t even recognise the term anti-Islam.
How can you possibly think that the Likes of Bush are not turning this into a religious war when he constantly invokes ‘God’. Dislike of the other Religion is what Bush is promoting, but he ain’t complaining about Jews.
Sure call me an anti-Semite again. Tell me that no particular Semites have influence above any other Semites in America.
Where too now??? you neo-cons far on the right. (You animal lovers, from the other thread)
I can’t wait to hear the lip service BS dribbling out of the neo-cons’ mouths, re: Palestine & Israel.
Come on, it’s your turn to jump up and down because I raised the issue of certain Semites.
But note there hasn’t been much protest about wgm’s post in the last 24Hours +.
Heavens help him in America if the statement was anti-certain-Semites.
posted on April 7, 2003 03:40:53 PM new
Islam translates as "Submission to God."
Unfortunately, it's vision and doctrine have been perverted by extremists with little interest in it's proper interpretation; their agendas of anger and retribution are largely focused at people, such as the average American, who don't deserve such hatred.
Islam deserves the same respect as any other religion - I say that as a Christian.
Although he is a Christian, I believe President Bush has clearly voiced his respect for Islam.
Americans, as members of a true and benevolent democracy should do the same.
posted on April 7, 2003 04:00:46 PM new
austbounty - I NEVER said I agreed with the Muslim part of the email I received.
I chose to post it in its entirety rather than pick and choose parts as others do
I state in my post that I didn't even know about the stamp or the controversy surrounding it. Because I choose to buy stamps with American flags on them in MY right. Just because I don't buy a certain type stamp does not mean I am biased against whatever happens to be on them. I am many things...a woman, a daughter, a sister, a mother - not to mention community involvement, etc. - but above all, I am an American.
I agree 100% wholeheartedly with the statements made up until the stamp issue - like it or leave it
edited for typo
"Be kind. Remember everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle." - Harry Thompson
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it." - A Few Good Men
[ edited by wgm on Apr 7, 2003 04:04 PM ]
posted on April 7, 2003 04:03:15 PM new
So here is another thought. Although I am a muslim, I am by blood a Jew. And as an American I think it is a darn shame that I can go and set up housekeeping on the very parcel of land confiscated by Israel from my spouse's family while my spouse's relatives are forced to live among the ruins and rubble in the Jenin refugee camp. How is that called justice? We need to fix that situation fast (we should have fixed it years ago) Friends dont let friends drive drunk. Neither do they turn a blind eye when that friend rapes a neighbor.
I am the first to condemn "martyrdom missions" and homicide bombings (whatever scholar, mufti, or cleric decided it was OK to take ones life in that manner is sadly mistaken and is doomed to wade through hell up to his chin in the blood and body parts of those he duped).. However, occupation has been brutal for the past 50 years for those who have had to live through it and Israel (for its own good) should have given up on the notion of a pure Jewish state long ago and we should have encoraged a just and healthy state development with equal rights for all persons inside that border.
Of course I could sit here and should myself to death, but the situation really does need to get fixed and the fault lies with everyone. The sooner we can look ourselves in the eye and admit our fault and quit buying into notions of Divine entitlement and resorting to ethnic and religious slurs the sooner we can fix the siutation and move on.
BTW: I can't think of a single "Muslim" nation that is currently behaving in a truly islamic manner so don't think I am trying to pontificate unaware of our own "beam in the eye" status.
posted on April 7, 2003 04:19:51 PM new
guardcat, I in no way meant to offend you; and if I did, I apologize.
I did not intend for it to sound like I would not buy the Muslim stamps because I am anti-Muslim. I don't buy the animal stamps, but I love animals - same with flowers (I am very much at home in my garden!), antique cars, etc...
I feel religion is a very personal thing and has absolutely nothing to do with denomination - hey, that's just my opinion
"Be kind. Remember everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle." - Harry Thompson
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it." - A Few Good Men
posted on April 7, 2003 08:14:49 PM new
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it." - A Few Good Men
That's a lot of BS.
Because everyone knows that enlisted men and in fact the military at large have often NO IDEA why they are fighting.
They go because they are told to. Full Stop.
The powers that be, pull the strings and make the choice to war, not soldiers, those same 'good men' are nothing more than cannon fodder and collateral.
They are not there to ‘provide freedom’ they are there to fight or intimidate, and sometimes only to be a distraction from some other political activity.
I suspect there are quite a few terrorists on these boards. Real terrorists; the type that hide under a veil of deceit, and promote horror, hatred, and fear, to advance their agenda.
Let’ see if Bush’s Yellow Brick Road, gets anywhere near Israel. The ‘pure state’.
US leadership will never ‘willingly’ stop ALL foreign aid and especially to Israel.
Sure thing, only some Muslims are evil, look at what we do to each other in the ‘Christian’ world.
Drugs, crime, sexual perversion---- Big Time.
“President Bush has clearly voiced his respect for Islam.”
NO
President Bush has clearly ‘’claimed/alleged’’ his respect for Islam.
But his actions and propaganda, and those of his ‘instruments’ indicate otherwise. And perpetuate the hatred.
Now America is going to try out a unilaterally controlled ‘social experiment’.
It is ‘’’’’claimed’’’’’ that the ‘objective’ is to Democratise Iraq.
How very philanthropic of the Jewish dominated group which dominates the original PNAC.
Take note, that here is a man who claims to be Muslim and yet even after clear insults to his faith has shown to be the least ‘retaliatory’ among us.
guardcat said “No problem. Absolutely no offence taken.”
May your God give you strength, as you turn the other cheek.
Peace be with you.
Perhaps some cHRISTIANS could take a leaf from your book.
posted on April 8, 2003 01:12:29 PM new
Fundementalists are a problem in all religions, but to gloss over the issues as it relates to violence and terrorism in conventional muslim religion is dangerous.
The acceptance and promolgation of violence and terrorism is manistreamed very heaviliy in the muslim religion, this does not mean that every muslim sect and muslim individual participates or participates at the same levels.
This muslim terrorist and violence movement is not underground nor fringe. It is the normal mainstream state of the religion in many countries. There is also overt and covert support throughout the muslim religion around the world for violence and terrorism.
There is also a huge and verifiable difference between the support of violence and terror by the muslim religion and what America has experienced by christian terrorists.
Around the world the 9-11 attack as well as other attacks on Aamerica are celebrated and elevated in mosques around the world, this did not happen in christian churches around the world when the Oklahoma bombing occurred, nor when an abortion provider is murdered.
To ignore this muslim religious connection to organized terrorism and violence is suicide.
posted on April 8, 2003 01:53:21 PM new
Dear Sir, you are mistaken in the notion that muslim terrorist and violence movement is normal mainstream state of the religion.
with 1 in 5 of the worlds population this is simply not the case.
The problem is the opposite I am afraid. Most mainstream Muslims are supremely passive to the point of fault. This passivity manifests itself in general powerlessness against ruthless individuals in our midst who are manifestly not passive. This includes power mongers who manipulate tribal connections to place themselves formost positions in the public eye. And consequently institutionalize their power by immediately marginalizing the rest of the population who do not possess the same tribal connections.
Combine this with the fact that religiously speaking no one is his brother's keeping in Islam. We have no central authority or priestly "pope" that keeps a ruthless agreesor from usurping and hinding behind the mask of islam. We have no way to excommunicate them. beliveing that God is the ultimate Judge, we also have a tendency to allow individuals who are misguided far too much time to repent until it is often times too late.
This is true for Saddam Hussein, Osama Bin Ladin, and others including leaders of some countries who unwisely use their powers to further subvert and obscure and manipulate the truth of what they profess to believe.
I agree that to ignore corruption in the midst is true for any group of people. But please. There is no "muslim religious connection to organized terrorism and violence." Terrorism and violence are anathema to the message of Islam. Anything other is a Halloween mask of deceit.
posted on April 8, 2003 07:17:46 PM new
austbounty, you can play with my statement any way you want to, but I stand by it.
You see, President Bush, like most Americans, doesn't wake up hating anyone but terrorists. Quite the opposite, we have chosen to be one country that embraces diversity.
Your tiresome ranting against all things American, beginning with an inane post you made a while back ("You Stand Charged Of Atrocities" presents neither an informed or objective viewpoint.
One of these days, the people of this world who rail against what is right and good may very well wake up and pay a terrrible price for just how wrong they have been.
I hope to God for the rest of us that day never comes.
posted on April 8, 2003 11:18:28 PM new
Some of you guys are being a bunch of sneaky anti-Semites. Anti Arab-Semites only that is.
I’ve looked back a little and found the only person to my knowledge to admit any Jewish affiliations.
At risk of ostracising, because I do find the majority of their posts to be well laid out and logical.
Roadsmith “I am 1/16th Jewish (great-great-grandmother) and damned proud of it. “
Here is a comment from one of the type that have come to be known as the neo-right or neo-cons.
mezuzas
“Just because you sold out your people and married the enemy doesn't make what they are any less of a reality.”
I’m GUESSING there are a significant dominance of those with ‘Jewish affiliations’, represented by the following names of regular posters here on the round table.
That would like to say, as this guy did, in the lead up to the war.
ebayauctionguy
posted on March 14, 2003 04:22:34 PM
Great article. It's the US vs. Arab culture and the only way we can win is by committing cultural genocide.
I think he's right but I kinda doubt liberals will go along with this.
The Alleged NEO-CONSERVATIVES
Stusi
Yeager
DeSquirrel
KatyD
twinsoft
canvid13
reamond
wgm
tomwiii
And then you have others just pop in like_
zugspitz
keiichem
yisgood
They have apparently convinced some ‘white men’ like the Reverend Colin, to do their dirty work too.
posted on March 15, 2003 06:02:21 AM
“””Many Muslim sects have waited a thousand years or more for just this power. WOMD.””
Why is is that Jewish people rarely declare their “allegiances” to others. Do you aspire to do mossad’s dirty work as you decide to travel incognito.
THERE IS A LARGE JEWISH REPRESENTATION ON THESE BOARDS WHICH REFUSES TO SHOW IT’S CARDS, AS IT CONTINUES TO SERVE IT’S PURPOSE; AND THAT IS THE HATRED OF OTHER SEMITES.
Here is one observation by a fleeting member poster, re: the anti-Islam thing.
http://www.vendio.com/mesg/read.html?num=28&thread=172879&id=173264
chococake
posted on March 17, 2003 10:42:58 AM
“”“This is one of the saddest threads I've ever read. Racism is certainly alive and well in America. I guess we haven't learned from history and yes it does repeat itself. Just exchange the group that its directed at.
Someone up there said this is how half of American thinks. After 9/11 one of the first questions we all asked was, "why and how can they hate us so much?" Evidently the answers are right here in this thread.”””
"Since the time of Ben Gurion, the behavior of the Israeli regime has been Jekyll and Hyde. In the 1950s, its intelligence service, the Mossad, had agents in Egypt blow up U.S. installations to make it appear the work of Cairo, to destroy U.S. relations with the new Nasser government. During the Six Day War, Israel ordered repeated attacks on the undefended USS Liberty that killed 34 American sailors and wounded 171 and included the machine-gunning of life rafts. This massacre was neither investigated nor punished by the U.S. government in an act of national cravenness.
......Israel.....ignored Bush’s requests to restrain itself, and sold U.S. weapons technology to China, including the Patriot, the Phoenix air-to-air missile, and the Lavi fighter, which is based on F-16 technology. Only direct U.S. intervention blocked Israel’s sale of our AWACS system."
[ edited by austbounty on Apr 8, 2003 11:20 PM ]
[ edited by austbounty on Apr 8, 2003 11:23 PM ]
posted on April 9, 2003 02:46:46 AM new
Do my observation of Jews operating covertly, as outlined on my previous post, prove that all Jews are sneaky, underhanded, exploitative????
Or is it just the subculture here?
If so, are all Americans Suckers, or just most,?
or am I only hearing those with a 'representation' and not those being suppressed by the McCarthy effect.???
Can we discus the ‘evils’ which are supposedly prevalent in Islam & Judaism????
For those propagandists on the extreme right out there, I never did like the Dixie Chicks.!!!!
Please don’t bring up the Spice Girls.
posted on April 9, 2003 04:07:52 AM new
"pay no attention to the man behind the curtain"
"Be kind. Remember everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle." - Harry Thompson
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it." - A Few Good Men
posted on April 9, 2003 03:27:45 PM new
Throughout the history of the world, terrorism has been associated with religious groups...Jewish, Muslim, Catholic and Protestant etc.
The word 'thug', now used to describe 'a vicious or brutal ruffian', is derived from a seventh-century religious cult that terrorized India until its suppression in the mid-nineteenth century. The Thugs engaged in acts of ritual murder designed to serve the Hindu goddess of terror and destruction, Kali. On specified holy days throughout the year, group members would forsake their daily occupations and lie in wait for innocent travellers who would be ritually strangled as sacrificial offerings to Kali. According to some accounts, the Thugs killed as many as a million persons during their twelve-hundred-year existence, or more than 800 individuals every year: a murder rate rarely achieved by their modern-day counterparts armed with far more efficient and destructively lethal weaponry.
Finally, the word 'assassin'--'one who undertakes to put another to death by treacherous violence'--was the name of a radical offshoot of the Muslim Shi'a Ismaili sect who, between AD 1090 and 1272, fought to repel the Christian crusaders attempting to conquer present-day Syria and Iran. Literally translated, 'assassin' means 'hashish-eater': a reference to the ritual intoxication the Assassins undertook before embarking on their missions of murder
but let's cut them off and give them 90 days to move to France.
Sniping works up a thirst"
Cheryl