posted on April 16, 2003 05:26:59 PM new
"Are you saying that it is completely logical to wage war against an entire nation based on the action of less than 1% of it's citizens? Not it's government, but it's citizens"
posted on April 16, 2003 05:52:16 PM new
They didn't just cross over,they were encouraged by the Syrian govt to cross over.
And do you really believe the Syrian govt can not control all of its citizens? It is a totalatarian state. If they don't get you they'll get your family.
[ edited by REAMOND on Apr 16, 2003 05:55 PM ]
posted on April 16, 2003 05:59:56 PM new
Why is it that many of you are not surprised to hear a comment like the one from 12pole
"USS Liberty incident was a tragic event, but we were trying to spy during a war..."
That statement implies that US people ‘got what they deserved’.
I can not imagine USA tolerating such an action from anyone other than Israel.
It certainly does seem that Israel has a very special place in the Hearts and pockets of Americans.
American Members or the far right here on vendio like 12pole are usually the 1st to voice a strong demand for attack on any nation, which encroaches on USA in any way.
Although he/she and other like ‘hawks’ here, have never declared any personal associations or affiliations with Israel, their deeds are always in a manner, which support Israel.
With sentiments like those expressed by 12 above, in spite of denial or absence of admission, there is little doubt that their allegiances are truly in doubt and at best mixed, although they may not even see it.
posted on April 18, 2003 07:31:58 AM new
Well, I must say that I'm a bit surprised that nobody stood up against 12pole's 'serves US right' sentiment regarding Israel's attack on the USS Liberty.
No wonder some Americans are 'tired of Israel', when some Americans appear to demonstrate a stronger allegiance to Israel.
But not many 'tired' on RT it seems.
How is it so????????
Is the Israeli 'lobby' well represented here.
That's funny, because most dominated countries have bigger countries doing the dominating.
Reamond, just before we switch this chat over to the other Semites.
American Reamond’s, Jewish/Zionist (he won’t tell) perspective regarding the Arabs is “there is a cultural problem exhibited through the religion that will be reckoned with. After 9-11 it can no longer be ignored. It is not condemnation, hatred, nor prejudice. But IT IS reaping what they have sown. ”
How convenient for Israel, that it’s hands can be kept clean, while certain American special interest groups, demand action of their government in the Middle East, while raising no concerns AT ALL for Israel’s interests being in conflict with USA’s, as in the case of the USS Liberty.
It’s very unfair that some of you don’t at least declare your potential for conflict of interest to your fellow Americans. After all USA has given and continues to give Israel a lot of $upport.
¼ of all Government foreign aid.
Colin, you once said “I believe were ALL the chosen people.”, Did you mean all people on Earth, or were you identifying yourself as being one of a special few.
posted on April 20, 2003 12:33:28 PM newAre you saying that it is completely logical to wage war against an entire nation based on the action of less than 1% of it's citizens?
Neon, you really don't get it. You don't understand how terrorism works. It hides itself among civilians. It hides behind women and children. In schools, mosques and hospitals. It uses its own citizenry as human shields. It targets the weak and innocent. Terror has no political goal; its goal is only to create fear.
If the Palestinians, or Syria, or anybody, can not or will not renounce terrorism, will not remove it from their midst, that does not mean that the powers that be should simply knuckle under, or recognize terrorism as a valid political tool.
Syria, Arafat, Saddam & Co. are easy to understand. They support terror covertly, while denying their support publicly. Of course you know this, you just choose to look the other way. If we went to war against Syria because of its support for terrorism, we wouldn't be waging war against the entire nation, only Syria's government, i.e., the terror support network.
It's anybody's guess whether Syrian-supported terror networks are targeting the U.S. It would certainly be negligent to think that Syrian-based terror has no plans against us. Right now Syria is sending mercenaries into Iraq to fight the U.S.-led troops.
posted on April 20, 2003 03:28:26 PM new
Twin - It's not that I don't understand what terrorism, it's that I do get it, that I do understand it, and that I know that it is not something that one can eliminate via war.
Terrorism is the act of individuals motivated by hate. The only way to wipe it out is to combat the hate or eliminate all the indivuduals.
Terrorism will never be eliminated. There will always be someone willing to die for a cause.
I don't ignore that their are governments that condone acts of terrorism against their enemies, I also don't ignore that it didn't really seem to bother us that much until we became their target.
If waging war on the middle east makes you feel safer then you are niave. Eliminating governments does not eliminate hate.
posted on April 20, 2003 08:53:03 PM newWhy are we supporting thi country? Is our guilty really this strong? If any other country put Isreal went in and made bombing attacks on another county we would be calling them to the mat.
I'm sorry but your comments show that you do not understand the situation in Israel, nor do you understand terrorism. It isn't a matter of both sides being right, or both being wrong. There is clearly a right and a wrong, for anyone who is familiar with the history of the area.
I agree with you that war will not end terrorism. But it can minimize it. Here's an interesting article from CNN today. The IDF went into Rafah and destroyed a number of tunnels from Egypt into Gaza used to smuggle arms. The article notes that the injured were mostly schoolchildren. What the article fails to explain is why a school would be located so close to those tunnels and arms caches. (Perhaps CNN feels it is better to "withhold" the truth than to antagonize its news source.)
The PLO is nothing but a group of murderous thugs, who use their own children as human shields. Can anyone who straps explosives to children be ready for peace? The PLO needs to remove Arafat and demonstrate they are truly ready for peace, before any negotiation can take place. I'm not holding my breath for that to happen.
As for foreign aid, much of it is privately donated. The part that comes from our government is simply insurance. America has only ONE ally in the Middle East. Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and the other despotic regimes have no place in a civilized world.
And yes, I do feel personally safer to see those weapons out of the hands of terrorists who openly supported Saddam Hussein.
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posted on April 20, 2003 09:36:31 PM new
::I'm sorry but your comments show that you do not understand the situation in Israel, nor do you understand terrorism.::
Twin, could please knock of the condensending attitude. The fact that our opinions differ does not mean that I "do not understand" . I simply do not mimick your views or see things in black and white. Palestinians being wrong does not make the Isrealis right.
Because I had family moved to the middle east I have been very interested in the dealings there since I was 10 years old, the dynamic has always fascinated me. I do understand the history of the area and the human aspectss well, I have just formed a different opinion of them than your own.
[ edited by neonmania on Apr 20, 2003 09:39 PM ]
posted on April 20, 2003 10:28:20 PM new
Since I lived in Israel for several years, served in the IDF as an infantry medic, and was the sole survivor of a bus bombing in which 45 people were killed, I think that gives me somewhat of an advantage in discussing terrorism. This topic does get old fast. I'm tired of hearing it myself.
posted on April 20, 2003 10:59:58 PM newThe PLO needs to remove Arafat and demonstrate they are truly ready for peace, before any negotiation can take place.
You are soooo right on that one!! No deals will be honored by a murdering dictator red handed thug. Also i would like to add, that if he is taken out (hopefully with a bullet from his own people) and peace talks are sincere, i have all the confidence in the world that the isreali PEOPLE will VOTE in a more level headed PM to further the peace.
For now you still need a wardog to be able to fend off a long standing wardog.
posted on April 20, 2003 11:11:19 PM new
::The IDF went into Rafah and destroyed a number of tunnels from Egypt into Gaza used to smuggle arms. The article notes that the injured were mostly schoolchildren. What the article fails to explain is why a school would be located so close to those tunnels and arms caches. (Perhaps CNN feels it is better to "withhold" the truth than to antagonize its news source.) :
Just as when giving your run down there you chose to not mention the Palestinian cameraman shot in the head by IDF. Eveyone reads what they want to and wave the remainder away.
I am not claiming that the PLO is by any means without blame. I am however stating that Isreal is not an innocent victim either.
posted on April 21, 2003 04:28:44 AM new
I know of one local ex-Palestinian resident, who some use to say when he was younger, on more than one occasion went over as a Palestine and engaged in ‘military activity’.
I know of another that went over, as twinsoft, and ‘engaged in military activity’ with the Israelis. Being born in Australia, this was as a surprise to the local’s neighbours who never knew he was Jewish, let alone to have such a passionate association with Israel.
The Palestinian man’s actions surprised no one much because he was always politicly vocal and his affiliation/sympathies were always stated and clear.
The association of Jews with the land of Israel appears to be very strong, whether a pilgrimage to Israel is expected in the practice of their religion, as with Muslims to Mecca, the attraction of many Jews to somehow support Israel is certainly there and great.
This behaviour, if I may venture to say as the child of European immigrants, seems alien to most of us, to the point of extreme of fanatical. Not for the sake of an apparent religious pilgrimage but rather for a military one.
Is it typical to see many Jewish settlers from the comparatively comfortable West, and if so do they cause a problem with displacement of Palestinians.???
