posted on April 27, 2003 09:40:47 PM newMuérdame Reamond.
¡Pero qué mordida será, sin dientes!
_____________________________________________
If you can't answer a man's argument, all is not lost; you can still call him vile names.
- Elbert Hubbard
[ edited by profe51 on Apr 27, 2003 09:41 PM ]
posted on April 27, 2003 10:24:24 PM new
Neomania
“I will buy good music that I enjoy regardless of the political or religious views of its performer assuming that they do not try to shove their beliefs down my throat. “
Reamond’s response,
“Then I can say without reservation that you too are self centered, short sighted, and unprincipled, not to mention having an absolutely sick world view with no regard or disposition of right and wrong. “
I think reamond is saying that he only buys music by ‘right wing’ groups.
A political bent for judging musical standards; other right wing members in Germany WWII, did the same thing.
posted on April 28, 2003 07:14:39 PM new
Prof,
Welcome to America. Now speak English.
Sorry my being ordained through the Universal Life Church bothers you.
I'm sure your teachers college education makes you feel a step above everyone. haha.
If you should want to buy crap..That's your choice.
The only reason I haven't put you on the A-list is, I believe you are an honest person, not overly bright but honest. I don't believe you would push your leftist view to your students. I believe you take you vocation seriously.
But Hey what the Heck, I've been wrong before.
Amen,
Reverend Colin
posted on April 28, 2003 09:43:29 PM new
Colin - I started the spanish in this thread dear heart and I was born in this country, with relatives going back to the civil war era. Take your racist crap a shove it up your A-list.
posted on April 29, 2003 12:08:54 AM new
Yes, I have even seen other neo-conservative anti-foreign-immigration type ‘political activists’ in Australia too, dominated by a high frequency of leather and black t-shirt types, some even had on their t-shirts, the letters ‘S.O.D.’ and underneath ‘Speak English Or Die’.
[ edited by austbounty on Apr 29, 2003 03:31 PM ]
posted on April 29, 2003 08:32:17 AM newColin - I started the spanish in this thread dear heart and I was born in this country, with relatives going back to the civil war era. Take your racist crap a shove it up your A-list.
So what race are Spanish speaking people ? Spanish speaking is no more a race than French speaking people are a race.
Colin said nothing racist, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with advocating an official language. In fact, it is efficient and necessary for a nation to have an official language.
posted on April 29, 2003 09:53:39 AM new
Reamond - the "Welcome to America - Now Speak english" cry is one that has been adopted en masse by those that resent immigrants of any kind.
While english may be the official language, I was unaware that is the only legal language. If Prof chooses make a joke directed at a comment made by myself in the same language my comment was made in, Colins insistance that since he is in America he should converse only in the "official language" of this country shows a heightened level of intolerence, especilly when the comment was not made to him.
There is a big difference between "official language" and "only language" but unfortunately those designations are frequentl confused by those who cannot tolerate that which they do not understand or that is different from themselves.
posted on April 29, 2003 10:11:04 AM newReamond - the "Welcome to America - Now Speak english" cry is one that has been adopted en masse by those that resent immigrants of any kind.
A wholly unfounded charge. The reality is probably the opposite, in that those who advocate "English only" welcome all immigrants that are willing to adopt the English language.
One can have the position of English only and it has nothing to do with racism.
There is a big difference between "official language" and "only language" but unfortunately those designations are frequentl confused by those who cannot tolerate that which they do not understand or that is different from themselves
In ultimo, there is no difference between an "official language" and an "only language". In anything other than a private conversation, official is the only language and the only language is the official language. You can not conduct any public affairs in anything other than an "official" language.
But in any event, we have no "official" language yet, but those that advocate such are not racist. You can not be racist based on language, as any given race speaks many tongues.
posted on April 29, 2003 11:36:11 AM newthe "Welcome to America - Now Speak english" cry is one that has been adopted en masse by those that resent immigrants of any kind. resent immigrants of any kind? Absolutely untrue and you're painting with a very broad brush there, madame. Maybe in *your* mind, but most certainly not in the minds of all who agree with the 'speak English'.
I have no problem with any immigrant who comes here legally. And I resent as a taxpayer all the additional expense to print everything in three or four different languages, paying extra [government] salaries to bilingual speaking people, and setting up special class to teach children in Spanish, rather than in English.
For generations immmigrants from all over the world have come here and learned our language....usually from their children attending school and helping to teach their parents.
The question is not what a man can scorn, or disparage, or find fault with, but what he can love, and value, and appreciate. J. Ruskin
posted on April 29, 2003 12:28:59 PM new
Linda - do you understandthat this Colins comment was made to someone that uses english almst exclusively in this forum and made a single comment in spanish in response to one that I had made. Notice that the comment was not directed to me, the person that used spanish originally in the thread but was instead directed at the Prof, a latino.
You see, many people profess to endorse "english only" policies based on economic reasons such as the ones you state in your post, but most (not all, I do realize that ) that I have encountered simply adopted that as a mask for their hatred. I used to travel with a group of native spanish speakers. About half were fluent, others were still learning and when communicating among themselves, spanish was the language of choice. I lost count early on of the number of times some idiot in a booth behind us at a restaruant ,in a checkout line, or even on a plane, would make some comment similar to Colins. Their comments had nothing to do with wanting to save money on government printing and everything to do with a lack of tolerence for anything or anyone different from themselves.
So Linda, that broad stroke that you mention was not created in my mind, it came from three years of watching how spanish speaking, and even english speaking latinos with heavy accents were treated not just in one area but dozens of cities around the country.
posted on April 29, 2003 01:22:30 PM new
I would just like to clarify that I have and will defend the opinions that differ from my own, hence the Chicks.
However, I have the right to my opinion and have the right not to buy their products and not to listen to their music etc.
If that is un-American, Bruce Springstein, so be it. Welcome to America, dear Bruce
posted on April 29, 2003 02:24:50 PM new
neonmania - I was responding to what you said...not the conversation others were having. that I have encountered simply adopted that as a mask for their hatred. I have said many times that what we each bring here to these threads is a combination of all our life experiences. That being said, I don't agree with your premise that to support English as this country's first language automatically makes one a racist nor does it mean it is a mask for their hatred. Everyone in my circle feels English should be our first language in America....and they aren't racists nor hateful people. Many just wish to follow the traditions that have long stood in our country. They don't at all mind the 'melting pot' but would just prefer, if put to a vote, to keep our heritage of the English language. Just another opinion.
The question is not what a man can scorn, or disparage, or find fault with, but what he can love, and value, and appreciate. J. Ruskin
posted on April 29, 2003 02:51:33 PM new
::I don't agree with your premise that to support English as this country's first language automatically makes one a racist nor does it mean it is a mask for their hatred.::
I did not say that Linda. I never said that people who believe that English should be the official language automatically are racists. I said that many racists have adopted that belief using legitimate arguements to mask personal anti-immigrant beliefs. Two different things.
It's when put in context of an individuals actions that the basis of the stance becomes clear.
posted on April 29, 2003 02:59:50 PM new
Well they should make one language an official language once and for all! it sure would cut down on all the paperwork the gov't puts out, there's like 5 pages of one paragraph in 12 different languages!
Though of all places, that I have actually seen this is in my UTILITY BILL, so the envelope is about an inch thick! (well I've seen it at the Drivers License place on a board thats 8 feet tall, with all the languages also ) No, I am not a language racist
Sorry, carry on
Art Bell Retired! George Noory is on late night coasttocoastam.com
posted on April 29, 2003 03:54:13 PM new
Near - we have the extreme pleasure here in So Cal to have native speakers of more foreign languages than anywhere in the US other than New York. Ever notice the way San Diego divides among nationalities?
Personaly I enjoy the different languages and cultures that have combined here. It keeps life interesting and I am always learning new things about different countries, cultures and lifetyles.
posted on April 29, 2003 04:01:20 PM new
neomania, I have not been to S.Ca in forever, except for a stopover in LA
I can see how it can be interesting to have different cultures and languages there. We have that up here too, to a degree, probably not as much as down your way.
I said just make one language 'official', didn't specify English, but just one.
The utility thing I got, I had to find the English ONE paragragh, to tell me they'll be coming to trim the trees off the lines on the street! Along with 10-12 other languages. I found the English one, just to tell me that, what a waste of paper!
Art Bell Retired! George Noory is on late night coasttocoastam.com
posted on April 29, 2003 04:08:58 PM new
Near - I could have sworn you said you were in Oceanside when we were having the immigration checkpoint debates.
posted on April 29, 2003 04:26:27 PM new
Nope not I... and I did not catch that debate on immigration checkpoints, I don't think
I know I posted awhile ago about transporting a car I bought in LA, what would be cheaper.... but...... ended up flying down, driving back........ got here just fine! nice drive!
Art Bell Retired! George Noory is on late night coasttocoastam.com
posted on April 30, 2003 12:50:13 PM new
Speaking of spanish, I heard on Bill O'Reilly radio talk show that California is allowing Mexican organizations to issue ids to legal and illegal aliens.
posted on April 30, 2003 01:08:46 PM new
I believe that the ID you are speaking of is the consular identification card. Basically this card is an official form of identification that can be used to open a bank account, board a plane, etc. It does not denote immigration status and since they are issued from foreign consulates, California cannot stop them from being issued. They have become an issue in California recently because banks, utilities and such that accept them have come under fire from public interest groups as aiding illegal immigrants.
posted on April 30, 2003 09:02:59 PM new
The laser visas are issued by Mexico at almost all Mexican consulates. It's not an issue of California "allowing" it. There's nothing they can do about it one way or another. Some banks and businesses are accepting them as ID for opening accounts. A foreign citizen can open a bank account or buy property in the US regardless of their immigrant status, it's up to the businesses to decide what kind of ID proof they accept. As this is a legal document issued by a neighboring country, some businesses have decided to accept it as proof of who you are, others have not. All of the above may be wrong, but it is how it is until the states or feds decide to change it. In order to do that, they'll have to interfere even more with the way private business conducts itself..something nobody is in a rush to do these days.
If you can't answer a man's argument, all is not lost; you can still call him vile names.
- Elbert Hubbard
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May 2, 12:00 PM
Dixie Chicks get last laugh
By Breuse Hickman
FLORIDA TODAY
That breeze you feel is courtesy of a sigh of relief echoed from the handlers of the Dixie Chicks as the "there's-no-such-thing-as-bad-publicity" rule plays out once again.
Rest assured that a girl group singer's off-the-cuff remarks and ensuing success will fuel plenty of jingoistic rants to keep group-thinkers' proverbial prayers and guns aimed at anyone who dares utter dissent.
Let's see. Tonight's concert at Orlando's T.D. Waterhouse is sold out. Chicks' 6 million-selling CD "Home" only temporarily fell out of the No. 1 position on the country charts, reclaiming the top spot two weeks after Chick Natalie Maines' anti-Bush, anti-war remarks. This week, the CD nestles at No. 2 -- uncomfortably sandwiched between the opportunistic sentiments of Darryl Worley's "Have You Forgotten?" and Toby Keith's call-to-arms "Unleashed," at No. 1 and No. 3 respectively.
The Chicks also got on the cover of Entertainment Weekly. Naked, even.
So does it really matter that, on Wednesday, Cumulus Broadcasting -- which owns Brevard's country station WHKR (102.7) -- officially lifted the ban that prevented any of its stations in more than 40 markets from playing Dixie Chicks tunes?
As far as the Chicks' pocketbooks go, the ban had about the same effect as did country fans who stomped on Dixie Chicks CDs they had already bought. Do country fans know that if you destroy your own property it doesn't hurt anyone, no matter how mad or patriotic you feel?
However, such corporate -- and public -- McCarthyism does further expose the limits now placed on certain American freedoms, in this case, freedom of speech.
As of Thursday, WHKR still has no plans to play the Chicks' music, despite the ban lift.
"We are keeping up with the feedback from listeners," WHKR program director Ted Turner said. "Some have called in with the freedom of speech thing and that they should be forgiven. But this is a military town, and we're simply not going to put on a record that 60 percent of our listeners don't want to hear. We just are following what our listeners are telling us they want to hear. Heck, if they wanted to hear Chinese gong music, that's what we would play."
Makes sense. Unless, of course, corporate were to find out and officially ban Chinese music from its airwaves.
Even without the building, conservative muscle behind corporate radio, country music -- like talk radio and the forces of flag-waving news networks -- has never been keen on questioning a Republican president about his war-time policies. You can read the history yourself.
Of course, we're all Americans, and you can still say what you want and never be afraid to ask questions. But you might risk a "boot in your ass . . . it's the American way," as Toby Keith so eloquently puts it in his song "Courtesy of the Red White and Blue," a lyrical moment that serves as the zeitgeist of a patriotic movement smothering in chauvinistic nationalism.
"Don't get me started," Maines said of the Keith song to the Los Angeles Daily News. "I hate it. It's ignorant, and it makes country music sound ignorant. It targets an entire culture -- and not just the bad people who did bad things. You've got to have some tact. . . . The kinds of songs I prefer on the subject are like Bruce Springsteen's new songs."
The problem with Maines' view point is that she doesn't understand that critical thought often requires going beyond pithy sentiments that fit snugly on bumper stickers or in three-syllable, pro-war battle chants -- or even in a country song title.
Perhaps Maines is too young to remember it was Springsteen himself who was caught between a rock and a stupid place when former president Ronald Reagan used his "Born in the USA" as a theme song. He seemingly didn't grasp Springteen's irony-filled message about Americans who weren't free to share in its dream.
Then again, modern patriotism is based not on historical frame of reference or soul searching but simple, knee-jerk reactions. Who needs critical thought when you live in the country with the most weapons of mass destruction?
There's a revealing word in Keith's chorus that's hard to miss: "Oh, oh. Of the red, white and blue/Oh, hey, oh/Of my Red, White and Blue."
Yes indeed, this is Keith's red white and blue, and it requires no questions asked. Think what you will. But say what you should.
Y'all come back now, y'hear?
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[ edited by austbounty on Apr 29, 2003 03:31 PM ]