posted on May 12, 2003 09:37:39 PM new
After hearing that the state of Florida changed its opinion and let a Muslim woman have her picture on her driver's license with her face covered this is an editorial written by an American citizen, published in a Tampa newspaper. He did quite a job; didn't he? Read on, please!
>IMMIGRANTS, NOT AMERICANS, MUST ADAPT. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Americans. However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the "politically correct" crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others.
I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to America. Our population is almost entirely made up of descendants of immigrants. However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand. This idea of America being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Americans, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over centuries of struggles, trials, and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.
We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Portuguese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language!
"In God We Trust" is our national motto. This is not some Christian, right wing, political slogan. We adopted this motto because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.
If Stars and Stripes offend you, or you don't like Uncle Sam, then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from. This is OUR COUNTRY, our land, and our lifestyle. Our First Amendment gives every! citizen the right to express his opinion and we will allow you every opportunity to do so. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about our flag, our pledge, our national motto, or our way of life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great American freedom, THE RIGHT TO LEAVE.
Status is: Sort of on snopes, but thought it was a nice read and corresponds with many of my beliefs.
[ edited by Twelvepole on May 12, 2003 09:37 PM ]
posted on May 12, 2003 10:02:30 PM new
In God We Trust has appeared on our money by tradition. However it does not specify which "God" nor is it an official national motto.
The national motto translated from latin is "One From Many" and since our motto is latin that must be the official language I would suppose.
Nowhere in our constitution, bill of rights, declaration or by any act of congress has English (the language of our former landlord) been decreed to be the official language of the United States.
In Louisiana a dialect of French is spoken by the Acadians who are to the best of my knowlege both native born and loyal Americans. In parts of the Southwest and West many native born Americans of Hispanic ancestory speak Spanish and many non Hispanic's also speak Spanish.
This country was founded by Free Masons and specifically rejected the notion of installing an official "Christian" religion as the state religion. In their wisdom the founders of this country specifically created a government which by mandate of constitution kept govenment and any church seperate and distinct.
If anyone is interested in the history of In God We Trust on US money it can be found at:
http://www.ustreas.gov/education/fact-sheets/currency/in-god-we-trust.html
The page is also available in Spanish
[ edited by davebraun on May 12, 2003 10:12 PM ]
posted on May 12, 2003 10:11:31 PM new
Twelve - do you agree that with the Christianity part? Do you really believe that this nation should conform to a single belief system?
BTW - While I respect the muslim culture, an id featuring a veiled person is pretty useless.
posted on May 12, 2003 10:25:45 PM new
I Dont believe this has been ruled on yet
and i seriously do not believe this will be allowed. Just imagine the fraud in the future if they do.Wow!!!
BTW This woman is an American convert.
One thing i just cant figure out, why the big fuss over religion? When the Government startS oppresing, inprisoning and excecuting those who dont follow a certain Religious belief. THEN START WORRYING. Other than that LIVE AND LET LIVE AND IF YOU DONT LIKE IT GO PLAY IN THE HIGHWAY!!!
posted on May 13, 2003 09:23:46 AM new
This is an old controversy and a few facts aren't being brought forward.
First, the woman was allowed, when she first became a licensed driver, to have her picture taken veiled. The Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles revoked it after Sep. 11, even though there was no change in the law that allowed them to do so.
That woman, Sultana Freeman, (who is a native-born American citizen) eventually agreed to surrender her drivers' license. The question now is whether she can obtain a state-issued ID card. That is the only form of ID many banks, government agencies, stores and other service providers will accept, so it's a fairly important question. Unlike driving, which is a privilege, the ability to prove your identity must be extended to all residents regardless of their religious beliefs.
You may not like the fact that freedom of religion is protected in the U.S. Constitution, which is a pretty un-American sentiment in and of itself. But the fact is that the First Amendment does exist. We do have religious liberty in this country and Freeman and everyone else has the right to worship as they see fit as long as they're not endangering public health, safety or welfare.
The really idiotic thing about that little screed is that the person who wrote it apparently doesn't realize that Freeman is in fact a native-born American citizen.
posted on May 13, 2003 09:42:04 AM new
MS - Out of uriosity - how does a veiled picture provide identification?
I used to own a burka, There was a satin strip that went across my forhead, attached to this was a doubled layer of heavy cotton mesh which allowed only my eyes to be seen... until another black mesh draped was added. My step mothe and Iare the same size and one day we decided to mess with my father, both dressed in our gear and he was unable to tell who was who. If a father is unable to tell his child from his wife how are merchants or law enforcement agencies supposed to be able to discern identity?
I have no problem with islam, with muslims, or with immigrants but this is one arguement I think lacks validity. The entire purpose of a photo ID is negated when it fails to provide a uniquely identifing photo.
posted on May 13, 2003 10:45:32 AM new
Upon presenting her ID supposing the photo was of her unveiled would she be required to then remove her veil for the merchant, bank or law enforcement officer if at a traffic stop etc.
Were her photo unveiled what use would it be if she were always covered?
Troubling as it seems I believe this is a freedom of religion issue.
posted on May 13, 2003 11:58:07 AM new
Yes Dave - she would have to remove the veil for police.
As for venders and banks - quite honestly... they don't look. I have a 17 year old ID from a state whose IDs at the time did not expire. I am 3 inches taller with entirely different hair style and color and have lost weight causing dramatic changes in my face and a nose job - oh yeah - there is also a typo that says I am male - it looks nothing like me but for fun I still pull it out at stores when they ask to verify my credit card - they NEVER mention that I bear no resemblance to the photo - they match the name and go.
My favorites are the ones that will take that in conjunction with my business credit card - neither the name nor the photo match but they still charge that card and give me a "come back soon".
posted on May 13, 2003 12:42:33 PM new
So what you're saying, is that you're a criminal neon.
In a way, I can understand Twelve's post. If the tables were reversed and there was some other "promised land" to escape to besides the U.S., would that country allow you the same freedoms and perks as their own citizens get? Would they allow you to dress/speak anyway you wanted etc., while you're urging that country to adopt rules which give you special treatment? I think the U.S. puts up with a lot and does its best to adapt to everyone's needs but hopefully, not at the expense of the citizens who have worked long and hard to maintain these rights.
posted on May 13, 2003 01:00:41 PM new
::So what you're saying, is that you're a criminal neon. ::
Hey now Krafy - it is my ID, it is me pictured, it does have my legal name - it just bares zero resemblance to me now. Funny thing is, I have not renewed my current ID so the "old me" ID right now is my valid one.... Guess I need to hit the DMV soon.
[ edited by neonmania on May 13, 2003 01:01 PM ]
posted on May 13, 2003 04:40:53 PM new
You do need to update your ID neon, not for the gov't but hey just to show your 21 anyway, right ? lol
I need to do a new one too, and I just had my license renewed, I had my hair CUT that it does dramatically change the way I look in the picture. (besides, it was a very bad pic on my new one LOL! )
about the veiled woman... YES by God, she needs her ID WITHOUT the veil, and show her face if she wants to conduct business, IF they ask, shoot otherwise, any 'kid' could take the ID wear a veil and go buy liquor or cigs underage with her ID, and thats just NOT right.
Art Bell Retired! George Noory is on late night coasttocoastam.com
posted on May 13, 2003 06:59:00 PM new
Near - I admire your courage! I have not done a major cut on my hair in over a decade. Every so often I catch a makeover show where someone cuts off all their hair. They always look great and at least ten years younger and I consider making the leap, especially considering the cost of upkeep (thank god for a friend with a salon - I get my products wholesale which I realize saves me about$75 a month). Problem is, my hair has become a valuable business asset
I buy a lot of my ebay inventory from vendors across the border. Most of the head people have special pricing for me and there are two that I have wish lists with. About a year ago I went down to one of my regular stops and was surprised to see that the owner, who gives me open access to their store room, was not there. I decided not to rock the boat and just searched thru the displayed stuff, picked out a couple pieces and went to pay. The new guy, looked up at me and i could see something click, he came around the counter excitedly saying "Gringa con mucha pelo" grabbed my hand and lead me to the storeroom. Turns out the owner was sick but thad told his son was watching the store about the deal (and pricing) for the american woman with lots of hair.
The next day I went by a family owned shop thats a favorite of mine because the owner happens to be friends with an artist there I am a huge fan of. Whenever he makes buying trips he stops by his friends and brings back a couple new items he thinks I may like. While I was looking around his wife brought out a couple pieces in a box marked "por Leona". There were a couple beautiful pieces I wanted but I kept trying to tell her I was not "Leona" Luckily their son (whose english is better than my spanish) explain to me that Leona is spanish for Lioness and thats the nickname they gave me because of my hair.
Now I am afraid to cut my hair for fear of losing out on great deals and my favorite artist.
posted on May 13, 2003 07:18:24 PM new
I'm not that dumb! I can see you coming here and trying to be friends, while plotting behind my back to steal my identity. I'm not falling for that old trick!
posted on May 13, 2003 07:33:12 PM new
That hurts Krafty! ... I thought we were Anti-american, Pinko Communist, Blame America First, Pamper-the-Criminals-they had-a bad-childhood, Save the Single Parent Trans-gender Impotent Chilean Sperm Whales, Save the world: Recycle, Peace not oil, sisters in arms.
Never mind - I know the real problem - you just don't want a meat eater in your house.
posted on May 13, 2003 08:22:29 PM new
If she wants to honor ancient muslim customs, what the heck is she doing driving?? She should not be going out in public without a male relative and she should always walk 2 steps behind.
Like people who speak Spanish in public, like teenagers who dye their hair purple, it's a way to thumb her nose at the rest of us and say "I'm not one of you!"
posted on May 13, 2003 08:35:07 PM newLike people who speak Spanish in public
They should just keep their silly language and culture hidden away at home right?
I speak spanish in public...daily...but only to people who understand me.Can't say I see much point in speaking in any language to someone who doesn't understand it. If someone who can't understand me takes offense at that,then they are clearly listening in on a conversation that is none of their business. If that's the case, then you're absolutely right.."I'm not one of you"...and real happy about it!
If you can't answer a man's argument, all is not lost; you can still call him vile names.
- Elbert Hubbard
posted on May 13, 2003 08:45:26 PM new
I think that most people who take offense at people who hold conversations in languages other than english are usually just paranoid and think that the conversation is about them.
posted on May 13, 2003 08:45:41 PM new"Like people who speak Spanish in public, like teenagers who dye their hair purple, it's a way to thumb her nose at the rest of us and say "I'm not one of you!"
posted on May 13, 2003 10:55:28 PM new
Speaking Spanish in public is rude. Especially when spoken extra loud so that everyone must hear it but can't understand it. It's not paranoia, it's annoying.
I don't have a problem with the Spanish language or Latin American culture. I can speak quite a bit myself and I almost brought home a Panamanian wife.
My point is that speaking Spanish in public, dying your hair purple, or an American-born woman wearing a burka, are less about honoring a sacred culture and more about nonconformity. Just my opinion.
I'm strongly against multiculturalism. Instead of becoming a nation of tribes, we need to take the best from each culture and meld them into one common American culture.
posted on May 13, 2003 11:21:38 PM newpeople who take offense at people who hold conversations in languages other than english are usually just paranoid and think that the conversation is about them
Ohhhh I dont know about that. Usually when i dont want to be understood, i'll talk to my friends in spanglish: Oye brother, mira que clase jeva!!!
Translation: Hey bro, check out that chick!!!
max
[ edited by keiichem on May 13, 2003 11:29 PM ]
One thing that was specific in the Military when I was in, was that you did not speak a foreign language on board the ship... what you did off ship or out in town was your business.
This is the United States... the Language here is English... you wish to live here... learn to speak it... I will not bother with speaking yours...
posted on May 14, 2003 08:05:42 AM new
::This is the United States... the Language here is English... you wish to live here... learn to speak it... I will not bother with speaking yours... ::
Twelve - I agree that one should learn the language of the country you are living in. I can't imagine living for years in a country where you are unable to communicate.
That's got to be crippling when you end up outside of your comfort zone / support system.
I don't fowever think that means your should abandon your native language. If I move to Mexico should I refrain rom speaking english to my english speaking friends once my spanish becomes more fluent?
posted on May 14, 2003 09:27:09 AM new
I am headed for Miami in a few hours, and as keiichem very well knows, in some parts of town I will be speaking my broken Spanish or nobody will talk to me!
The truth is, you can declare what language people are "supposed" to speak all you want. They're going to speak the language they're most comfortable with, whenever they can, unless they are actively trying to learn another language. And you may insist that it's the "moral" choice for them to want to learn English, but you can't make them follow your sense of what's right and wrong unless you want to go out on the streets and arrest people for speaking foreign languages.
The biology of learning makes it very difficult for most adults to become fluent in a language they didn't speak as a child. Language is so hard-wired into our brains that, as adults, it is all but impossible to learn to "think" in another language. You have to constantly work around the connections that already exist in your brain, a process that is in fact quite exhausting. I've read interesting articles about the process of "language fatigue" that occurs when someone is trying to cope with a language they don't fully understand. They lose the ability to filter out trivial speech and extraneous conversation, and become dazed and overwhelmed. Language fatigue can cause depression, confusion and even dementia. One of the best and most natural ways to combat it is to stop trying to communicate in that language - even for a short period of time - and find someone who can speak your own language to you for awhile. (Americans who've traveled abroad - or to Miami = will recognize the "thank God someone speaks English" syndrome.)
As far as the veiled woman goes, quite frankly, I just don't see it as that big a deal. Maybe there could be an accessory identification method - like a fingerprint - to use when people don't want to have their face photographed. But either way, I just can't see that it matters.
posted on May 14, 2003 09:57:12 AM newspeaking my broken Spanish or nobody will talk to me
Unless your are trying to communicate with a tourist or a recent arrival, people will talk to you in english perfect or broken.
It is the obligation of those who immigrate to learn the host language. And yes it is possible not easy ~ actually very hard, but then whats easy in life.
posted on May 14, 2003 02:31:05 PM new
I speak barely functional Spanish. Enough to get by in terms of commerce etc. My wife is bilingual, having a degree in Spanish Language although her native tongue is English. Many of the immigrant population we come in contact with are illiterate in their native tongue as the harsh economic realities of the world do not allow many to go to school in both mexico and Latin America. It is very difficult to learn a language as an adult when you cannot read your own. I hear Spanish spoken frequently both in my home, on the phone, in the streets and marketplaces of California. Having the ability to communicate in Spanish has increased my profits and I have met some really nice people who I would not have if I spoke English only.
posted on May 14, 2003 04:44:06 PM new
bien dicho davebraun
____________________________________________
If you can't answer a man's argument, all is not lost; you can still call him vile names.
- Elbert Hubbard
[ edited by profe51 on May 14, 2003 04:46 PM ]
posted on May 14, 2003 04:49:25 PM new
Ranting and raving about spanish and spanish speakers in the US always reminds me of the Little Dutch Boy story...let's face it...this culture is $$ driven, and business has discovered the bilingual market.
The size and buying power of the Hispanic market is well-known. There are 32 million Latinos in the U.S., the country’s fastest growing population and the largest ethnic minority, according to the U.S. Census. They spent $800 billion on goods and services in the U.S. last year.By 2020, there will be almost 56 million Hispanic Americans living in the United States and most will be U.S. born. A recent report by the magazine Hispanic Business found that the largest shift in the population is towards the English-speaking market.
_________________________________________
If you can't answer a man's argument, all is not lost; you can still call him vile names.
- Elbert Hubbard
[ edited by profe51 on May 14, 2003 04:53 PM ]
lol
