posted on May 17, 2003 09:09:33 AM new
What is disgraceful is Roe vs Wade still being on the books and hopefully by the end of President Bush's SECOND term that piece of garbage will be gone...
posted on May 17, 2003 10:46:27 AM new
Snap out of it Twelve. Take away women's freedom of choice and the U.S. will become a prime target for "liberation".
posted on May 17, 2003 12:41:56 PM new
So Twelve - once you force the woman to have the unwanted child are you also going to support it? Are you going to vote for increases in the welfare system to help the barely employable 18 year old be able to afford child care rent and food while making minimum wage? Are you going to vote to raise your taxes to help put more moey into the Child services department to staff the overburden foster care system? What about increased spending for schools?
Are you prepared to pay the actual dollar price involved with inflicting your moral opinion onto the lives of others?
posted on May 17, 2003 01:08:32 PM new
No but if the mother is an illegal alien she will then be eligible for an adjustment in status as the guardian of a US Citizen. 12's solution: shoot her.
posted on May 17, 2003 01:20:12 PM new
I was going to stay away from this one, but being the 60's kinda gal I am. . .
kraftdinner
Gotta love it!
Twelvepole
No one, REPEAT, no one has the right to tell me as a woman what I can and cannot do with my own body. Not you, not the government. How about if we reverse Roe vs Wade and take all those unwanted children and hand them to say - You? Better yet, we'll hand them off to all the Right to Lifers AND the children will come complete with the before, during and after medical bills. Your solution is that the Medicaid/Welfare system should foot the bill for unwanted children who are going to end up abused or in garbage cans?
Teaching your children is one thing. Being able to watch them 24/7 is yet another. As the mother of two children (a widow raising them on my own), I can tell you this: You cannot police your children 24/7. One would hope that with all the STDs and AIDS out there, they would have better sense. But, kids will be kids and they think with child minds, not adult minds.
I personally would not choose to have an abortion. However, the right to have one should be there for me and every other woman on the planet.
Better idea girls: How about if we take away a man's right to vote? They've had far more years than us to get it right.
posted on May 17, 2003 02:34:06 PM new
::No Neon, how about parents do their jobs and teach their own children... ::
That is the most niave arguement I hear on this topic. Hey Twelve - if parents taught their children there wouldn't be robery, murder or any other crime so why not just get rid of the prison system too.
Come join us again when your utopian vacation is over and you are ready to supply a jusification and follow up plan that is based on reality.
Edited because I am the typo queen
[ edited by neonmania on May 17, 2003 03:31 PM ]
posted on May 17, 2003 02:43:24 PM new
You guys are right. If the anti-abortion league kept credible records, they should be able to come up with the figures on how many against abortion adopt. That figure will tell you all how much these people really care about unwanted pregnancies.
posted on May 17, 2003 05:21:55 PM new"Nice quoting out of context Kraft...."
Duh! It was a joke Twelve... a really obvious one to boot.
As far as parents being responsible, teenage pregnancies in the U.S. are falling. It's the adults that are having the abortions Twelve. Do you really think these adults aren't making informed decisions?
Okay, once we sit down and have the talk with our children, what's next? A padlock for their rooms? Do you really think that in this day and age with the HIV/AIDS epidemic that parent's, teachers and family members don't talk to their children? Granted, there are some irresponsible parents out there who don't. However, what the children learn from their educators far exceeds what I learned from mine. My daughter got pregnant at 18 and chose to keep her daughter and what a blessing she is. I supported her choice. Had she chosen an abortion, I would have supported that decision as well.
Talking is just that - talking. How many times as a teenager did you shut your parents out? My mother could be talking straight in my face and sometimes I didn't hear a word. I understand where you are coming from. I don't agree, but I understand. Roe vs. Wade was as important a victory for women as the right to vote was.
As far as adoption goes, it's a great concept but it doesn't always work. How many potential adoptive parents are scared off by the fact that the natural mother or father can change their minds? How many children are in the foster care system now that will never get a home?
A week or so ago, a newborn baby was found in Cleveland in an alley full of old tires. Born of a mother who didn't want her. If it weren't for the grace of God, that child would have died a throw-away. How she survived the cold and rain is a question we'll never really know the answer to. Or how she was ever found just in time. These are the children we'll be faced with should Roe vs Wade be reveresed. Do you really want that? Here's the story if you are interested:
Abandoned baby gets care, name from Rainbow nurses
05/14/03
Emma Rose was born on Mother's Day, but her mother's identity remains unknown.
The baby, abandoned on Sunday only a few hours after her birth, was moved yesterday into a room at Rainbow Babies & Children's Hospital where nurses teach parents to take care of a child before they go home.
Emma Rose, named by nurses at the hospital, now relies on those nurses to change, feed and rock her. When Emma leaves the hospital at the end of the week, she will go into a foster home.
A 15-year-old East Cleveland girl found the baby in a narrow alley behind her Superior Avenue apartment building around 10:20 p.m., when she was taking out the garbage. Doctors believe the 5-pound baby was five hours old when she was found.
Authorities do not know who, or where, the mother is but have ruled out the 15-year-old girl.
Doctors at the hospital treated Emma for hypothermia but found no other medical problems. Emma's temperature was about 84 degrees, well below the 95-degree threshold to declare a baby hypothermic, said Lolita McDavid, Rainbow's medical director for child protection.
"If she'd have been left out [much longer], she would have died," McDavid said.
Hospital workers brought in a pink hat and booties, a pink stuffed lamb and other clothes. A nurse named her "Emma Rose" because she didn't want to call her Baby Jane Doe.
"We came up with Emma Rose because we thought it sounded pretty," Trisha Miller, a nurse in the neo-natal intensive care unit, said yesterday as she sat next to Emma's crib.
Jim McCafferty, director of Cuyahoga County's child welfare department, said his agency is not interested in pursuing criminal charges against the mother and encouraged her to at least seek medical treatment.
He believes that since Baby Emma was found healthy and soon after her birth, the case falls under a state law that allows a mother to abandon her child unharmed within the first 72 hours of birth - even though it does not precisely meet the law's standards. The law went into effect more than two years ago and requires mothers to drop off the child with police, paramedics or hospital staff.
posted on May 17, 2003 11:02:20 PM new
::Why is it naive to expect PARENTS to actually sit down with their children discuss the ramifications of sex? ::
It's not. It's niave however to believe that these talks will stop unwanted pregnancies. Teens have unprotected sex. adults have unprotected sex, teens and adults have unsuccessfully protected sex. Condoms fail, the pill fails, parents fail, now what do you do?
::Not taking away your right to do with your body, just taking away an easy way out because you were stupid enough to have sex without protection... ::
What an arrogant little bastard of a comment that is. When I was 17 I was told I would never be able to have children. At 21 I was in a commited monogomous relationship. There was no need for protection except for one small problem. My doctor was an idiot. I was pregnant. In the end I miscarried but had that not been the case, I would have opted for abortion and nobody has the right to deny me that level of control over my body and my life.
::Abortion is wrong, because it does not prevent a problem or even really correct it, it just allows easy way out and at what price. ::
That statement is so patently ridiculous I am spinning.
posted on May 18, 2003 04:25:10 AM new
ebayauctionguy
Huh? I'm sure you did not mean to say I'm not a Christian because I support abortion rights. I'm very much a Christian. Granted, I have a problem with organized religion and my beliefs may be a bit out of the mainstream, but I do have the fundamental Christian beliefs. My boyfriend has one friend who is Jewish and he supports a woman's right to have an abortion. And gues what? Not only is he Jewish, but he's a Jewish gay man. I tease him by telling him that he only became Jewish for the hats.
How much control do you think the government should have over us? How about the church? Should be go back to the middle ages or Puritan times and allow the church to dictate what we can and cannot do? Would you have anyone who has an abortion burned at the stake? It amazes me sometimes how far back some people want to push us in order to force their beliefs upon us. Who died and made you God?
I have a problem with any group that continually uses violence to get their message across. Groups that bomb clinics and murder doctors. That's terrorism. How come right to lifers don't see it as that? Maybe a clinic bombing or the murder of an abortion doctor doesn't claim as many lives as 911 did, but the message is the same.
This issue isn't about religion or politics. It's about choice. It's about your right to have a choice. Choice, choice, choice, choice, choice. Now do you get it? Probably not.
posted on May 18, 2003 06:28:01 AM newWhat an arrogant little bastard of a comment that is. When I was 17 I was told I would never be able to have children. At 21 I was in a commited monogomous relationship. There was no need for protection except for one small problem. My doctor was an idiot. I was pregnant. In the end I miscarried but had that not been the case, I would have opted for abortion and nobody has the right to deny me that level of control over my body and my life.
How ignorant of a statement this is, you are using abortion as an excuse because your Doctor made a mistake 4 years before, you never heard of a second opinion?
Women today should be intelligent enough without having to play the abortion game... I was listening to the radio and heard this creature chirping about her 4th abortion...
Ok fine you get one free, next time they take the plumbing out.. you won't have to worry about being to ignorant to use protection.
Only right you should have is the one "Do I have my birth control and does he have protection?"
Abortion is wrong.
However I do not support violence on Doctors... Clinics yes but not the people, they are just misguided.
posted on May 18, 2003 10:31:31 AM new
Why do you need to resort to such childish remarks, neonmania? You only lose whatever credibility you may have.
I don't enjoy arguing with someone who is constantly insulting me. Few posters here appreciate your tedious, long, drawn out arguments either...as you can see by the number of people posting here.
I do agree with you Twelve. Abortion IS wrong. Anyone that thinks it's RIGHT is silly, BUT it's also a decision that a pregnant woman sometimes has to make. Just because there are stupid women out there who use abortion as a means of birth-control, doesn't mean that all women should be thought of in the same way. It all boils down to having to make that decision on your own and living with what you chose, which's nobody's business except your own.
Oh, never mind. It isn't worth my time to argue on your last point. I've more important things to spend my time on. It's never a man's fault to you. In your mind, the woman is at fault for everything right? Because you know that condoms never break.
I'll have to remember to "just say no" the next time my sperm donor gets frisky. Should make me a popular woman around here since most men do their thinking with their sperm donor-ing instrument.
posted on May 18, 2003 11:55:12 AM new
Yes condoms break but that is not as an effective birth control method as the pill and who is supposed to take the pill?
If you can't take the pill for whatever imaginary reason, then there are other methods that in combination with a condom should work, but for a woman just to rely on a condom is like playing russian roulette...
posted on May 18, 2003 12:03:21 PM new
::Men are in reality just sperm donors... ::
Sorry - just couldn't help myself....
But let's face it - if you are nothing more than a sperm donor then you have no right to dictate to me what decisions I make as what to do or not to do with my body.
If you bare no responsibility, you also bare no voice.
[ edited by neonmania on May 18, 2003 12:03 PM ]
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