You have to give him or her credit for one thing, guts. I mean dealing with sinners like us could be a risk. What if we accidentally project our sinful ways on to him?
twelvepole
Geeze, twelve, you are mild compared to this nut.
posted on May 22, 2003 12:49:22 PM new
I know Cheryl , but in a way, it's people like orleansgallery that represent a vast number of narrow-minded thinkers out there, through no fault of their own, but from the government and media that shoves false information down their throats. How can anyone make an informed decision when most of the information is false?
One of my biggest complaints is against drug companies that push all sorts of crap down your throats, some HIGHLY addictive, but OK'd by the government. Most people wouldn't give any prescribed drug a second thought because a doctor did the prescribing and they know best, right? WRONG! It's that garbage that'll kill you, not the mj.
If any of you can provide links to back-up claims about mj users ending up in the gutter or dying, etc., I'd love to see them, just for the heck of it.
posted on May 22, 2003 01:30:47 PM new
OK, for those of us who've never even tried it....
Can anyone explain, why is it, when this topic comes up, people claim how it's not harmful, etc., but no one (that I've read) who's a leader in their medicinal field is announcing any claims about the casual use of pot? If it were harmless, wouldn't there be clinical proof citing such?
Don't go reading into this, I'm not saying that claims I've read in here are false, I'd just like to see someone, ideally, like the surgeon general, or another leader in medical research tell me it'd be OK to smoke it.
posted on May 22, 2003 01:51:42 PM new
deuce, the government wants you to keep believing it's harmful so they don't have to legalize it. They don't want to legalize it because they make too much money from keeping it illegal. The problem is too many users end up in jail which takes away from the money the government makes, that's why Canada is heading for decriminalization.
People are starting to wake up to the derogatory effects of tobacco and alcohol and are choosing something much safer. The government can't control mj in the same way they do with processed stuff, so they make the public believe it's harmful.
posted on May 22, 2003 01:55:19 PM newdeuce:
They can't tell you it's okay while it is illegal.
None of them are telling you that ciarettes are okay, are they?
yet they are sold.
None of them will tell you that alcohol is okay, either.
You will find *oodles* of reports all over the internet citing facts about how healthy it is to have a cocktail or two daily.
Many reports about cigar smoking as well.
Multiple it by thousands, and you will find about that many credible reports on the benefits of MJ.
No Surgeon General though, it is illegal, after all.
Orleans:
Too much time spent in the French Quarter?
Just about every crack head and coke freak will tell you they started with pot
They also started out wearing diapers.
damn.
I just knew those Pampers would cause all kinds of dependency issues.
It is usually best to try making a point, not pull a rabbit out of your, um, uh,
... hat
posted on May 22, 2003 02:02:08 PM newaustbounty, is that you? did you decide to give the good ole USA a chance and move to LA?
"Be kind. Remember everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle." - Harry Thompson
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it." - A Few Good Men
posted on May 22, 2003 02:17:27 PM new
Hmmm, if I remember right (my sinful ways may have zapped some braincells, LOL) it was about legalizing Marijuana. Or, was it about how all of us are sinners and destined to spend an eternity in you-know-where. Anybody out there have a few brain cells they can spare? LOL!
Cheryl
My religion is simple, my religion is kindness.
--Dalai Llama
posted on May 22, 2003 02:29:52 PM new
Cheryl ~
I like your new sig line ~
quite appropo ~
very becoming & very YOU!
FWIW, I don't indulge anymore.
I still miss my cigs more than any other indulgence.
well, I could go for a cocktail right about now but that will have to wait until July sometime!
Mark smokes ~ usually cryppie (sp?) for the reasons kd mentions.
Personally, I just like the smell
same way I feel about pipe smoking ~
not for me, but the second hand stuff is pretty good!
BTW, he's smoke since he was a teen, has an advanced college degree and a successful career.
My brother has also smoke since HS ~ graduated with honors at age 17, went to a top University (still smoked in college), again achieved his degreees at the top of his class. He went to an Ivy League Medical School (yup, honors) (yup, still smoked pot) becoming an MD at the ripe old age of 25. He is now a very well respected Doctor, some Floridians may have even seen him on TV .
I do NOT believe that my husband and brother are the exception.
I do believe that MJ, in moderation, can be of significant benefit (emotionally, medically, psychologically) to MANY people.
Too many mommies popping Xanax all day long when all they need is a hit of cryppie at the end of a stressful day.
Too many daddies hitting the bottle and running away, rather than taking a hit and chilling out.
IMHO, it would be *much* better if the legal issues were resolved.
Thanks for the compliment. We could all stand to be a bit kinder every now and again. Too much energy is wasted on being angry all the time! A bt of aromatherapy oil helps, too! Especially after a trying day at work.
I don't smoke it anymore either, but my boyfriend does. Yes, I can smell it a mile away and I like the smell of it, too. Smells much better than someone who has been boozin it up all day and night!
Cheryl
My religion is simple, my religion is kindness.
--Dalai Llama
posted on May 22, 2003 02:46:41 PM new
OK, there are many "experts" who state the wonders of pot, and cite studies that say so, yet they are cancelled by other "experts" who let us know the dangers of pot.
Legal or illegal, I would certainly expect some major university study to track/publish effects of smoking it, after all, there all valid medical uses for it. I wonder how many "medical users" go on to harder drugs?
posted on May 22, 2003 02:57:33 PM new
Have to jump in on this one....
By the way, let me preface this by saying this is Clivebarkerfan's girlfriend. He stepped away, but I'm sure he'll have something to add later on.
Ok. I've smoked 3 times in my life. Didn't get anything from it. However I am for the legalization of it.
1. Imagine how much money the government could make on the taxes! Look at cigarettes, gas, and alcohol.
2. At least you'd know the quality of what you were buying and if it was laced. I saw too many people try a new dealer and end up with pot soaked in shroom juice or embalming fluid. Not a good thing if you're not expecting it.
3. My ex boyfriend was an alcoholic. Watching him and his drinking buddies, then comparing it to some neighbors I used to hang around with that were pot smokers...world of difference. Boyfriend and freinds would drink, then drive to another bar. Drink more, then another bar. Then drive home. Pot friends stopped at White Hen, stocked up on Mountain dew and munchies, brought stuff to the house, played cards and talked. No one drove (they could've if they wanted but no one wanted). If they got hungry, Dominos to the rescue!
4. Pot is only a gateway drug because the dealer you are buying from is most likely also selling coke, LSD, etc. So he'll push. If it were available in a controlled environment, there's nothing else to buy since all other drugs are still illegal. As I said, I tried it and NEVER MOVED ON TO ANYTHING ELSE.
5. ever seen a loud, obnoxious, angry, mean stoner that beats up friends and/or family? Doubt it.
6. Most pot smokers I know (and granted there are exceptions) can snap out of the buzz rather quickly. Case in point..ex-boyfriend was hanging with pot friends. He drank, they smoked. One of the girls (not a smoker) began to choke on a pretzel. It was a smoker that helped her. My ex knew CPR and the Heimlich just sat there. There's a reason for the phrase "Buzz Kill"
Now, none of this is to say I condone it being smoked by minors or even in front of children. Then again, I don't believe in drinking or smoking cigarettes in front of them either.
P.S. Cheryl, I feel the same way. It has a nice smell.I was considering making a candle that smelled like it but we decided agaist it!
[ edited by clivebarkerfan on May 22, 2003 03:00 PM ]
posted on May 22, 2003 03:26:34 PM new
* waving hi(gh?) to my dear friend krafty *
I'm not sure about the effects of mj as a gateway drug for medicinal users, but I can tell you nightmares of stories about *other* prescription drug abusers.
There are *many* members of NA in my upscale community and just as many sad stories.
Soma and Vicodin are may start out as pain killers but too often become a habit that infiltrates the life of the user before they knew what was happening.
My xperience with pot smokers has proven more times than not that their *habit* is a choice.
Either it is for recreational use or for an escape.
Getting high to avoid life is dangerous in any form ~ be it in alcohol (legal form), pill form (prescription), or other (pot).
*Hi to clivebarkerfan's GalPal*
Welcome to the table!
I used to ave a neighbor that would smoke on her patio.
I told my kids she was burning candles!
If you ever decide to make the scent, be sure to let me know!
I find it's sweetness very warm & soothing.
Vanilla does that to me, too!
posted on May 22, 2003 03:31:37 PM new
Only problem is IT SMELLS LIKE POT! LOL! Don't really need to give a cop an excuse to search my house because they smell pot, even though it's coming from a candle.
posted on May 22, 2003 03:38:41 PM new
My son burns incense that smells like pot. I know he does it in his room (smokes pot), mostly when I'm off in dreamland. My mother was over the one day he was burning the incense. She ran up to his room and reamed him a new one right in front of a group of his friends (including his girlfriend). Boy was he surprised. Needless to say, she still apologizes. In the meantime, I'm downstairs getting a heck of a laugh at both their expenses.
Yes, my mother knows what it smells like. She raised 5 children who reached teen years in the 1960's and 1970's. Poor thing.
Cheryl
My religion is simple, my religion is kindness.
--Dalai Llama
posted on May 22, 2003 04:00:27 PM new
That's a hoot! Can you imagine the anarchy with the police if people started burning pot scented candles?
And for those of you who are against it because it's illegal, don't forget that the same government has let people from Enron get away with scamming your whole country without anyone going to jail. Being illegal means nothing these days.
posted on May 22, 2003 07:51:50 PM new
Hello! This is the real Clivebarkerfan (not my eBay name either by the way)
MJ is not a gateway drug. It is seen as that because of where you have to go to get it. Usually those people (dealers) don't sell puppy dogs along with pot, they sell harder stuff like coke, etc. They are the ones that make these other drugs available to the stoners, in a way similiar to the way legal business runs. Dealers want to increase their profits. They just want to move product for profit even though it's illegal.
As for not being sharp or dulling your senses this can be true. If you ABUSE it. Just like people that ABUSE McDonald's Big Macs don't run marathons.
Anything can be harmful if done to excess. Eating, not eating, drinking, sex, exercise, etc. However all of those things are legal.
Personally, I held a professional job that was consider the third most dangerous job in the world according to the Discovery Channel (I was a logger), smoked pot (not on company time), and am still sharp enough and MOTIVATED ENOUGH to post this today.
Regarding the illegality of pot. In my opinion legalizing it would keep it in a controlled environment and limit access by underage kids. Enforcing an age limit would be much easier to control than busting small dealers (not all sell hard core stuff). Also it would take money away from street gangs and organized crime. Taxes can also be built in just as in casinos for rehabilitation of those that become addicted. Though pot isn't physically addicting it can be metally addicting providing a "crutch" that has been brought up.
I haven't seen a compromise mentioned. Just as gambling is only legal in casinos, why not make smoking pot legal only in certain "bars"?
This is America. This is a country built on free choice, free thought and free will. Smoking pot is a personal choice just as eating fast food every day is. Will some people abuse it? Yes. But if put in a controlled atmosphere the abuse shouldn't get out of hand. Look at Amsterdam's laws on pot. It's legal to smoke in tea houses, legal to carry, but you can't smoke it out in public. Like alcohol is here. You can drink it in a bar, but you can't walk down Main Street swigging Jack Daniels from a bottle.
If someone is that intent on altering their state of mind they will do it whether pot is legal or not. Look at those that huff legal substances like gasoline, Scotch Guard, spray paint, etc.
posted on May 23, 2003 06:01:37 AM new
opium was offered in medical clinic in old china to those who need it.
later,there were opium den where smokers can indulge in chasing the dragon!!
opium addicts are not dangerous folks in the physical sense but they are devastating to their and their family financial health.
do we want MJ den in this country??how about at starbuck ??
plus we get to buy a copy of harry potter at barnes and noble after we are done .
wow,i cant wait to land a contract for decorating the MJ den all across the country with a dragon theme!!
posted on May 23, 2003 06:30:33 AM new
Stopwhining....
And Oxycoton was also used in the medicinal world until they discovered it was more addicting (physically) than heroin and pretty much everything else. I had a buddy that was put on it by his doctor when he was injured at work. It was pulled from the market while his doctor was on vacation and he ran out (not knowing any of this). doc's office wouldn't give him anything since it was pulled from the market. He had to go dry for a week until his doctor came back and they could figure out what to do with him. about midway through, he couldn't take the withdraws and ended up downing a bottle of tequila and smoking 3 joints JUST TO TAKE THE EDGE OFF.
My point is comparing opium to pot is like comparing an apple to a platypus. Both are carbon based matter, and that's where it ends. Opium is physically addicting. Pot isn't.
As for financial..you gotta smoke a whole lot of pot to make your family go broke!
What's wrong with a tea house for pot? Are you out there protesting bars that serve booze? Or is that ok because the government decided it was?
What the He** does Harry Potter have to do with anything? Did I miss something?
posted on May 23, 2003 06:55:33 AM new
first,barnes and noble is the biggest landlord of starbuck,every superstore has a starbuck coffee shop and the new harry potter book is about to come to the market.
as for addiction,i have heard that cocaine is not physically addictive,it is all in the head??
what is addiction?i know gamblers just cant stop gambling,is it addictive??you dont see gamblers eating or inhaling the chips??
what about eating??
i dont smoke MJ,but the last i heard from a MJ dealer,good mj costs almost as much as the hard drug starting with a letter C.
posted on May 23, 2003 04:41:05 PM new
First off, cocaine is EXTREMELY physically addicting. How do I know this? I was a coke addict for 10 years (not any longer by the way). Grinding teeth, clenched jaw, dry heaves, not to mention stomach cramps from not eating while on coke and that's just from snorting it. Coke smokers take withdraws to a whole new level. I have never met a woman that was willing to sell her body for MJ, but there's tons in south Florida willing to sell their bodies for coke (crack whores are the same thing).
As for gamblers (or some extreme sport participants), it's a mental/physical thing. They like the metal addition and the challenge but become physically addicted to the adrenaline rush. Food is more a mental thing too. Normally those people find they are using food as a replacement for some emotional thing.
As for price points, that really depends. Really good MJ goes for top dollar (that stuff has very high levels of THC). It also depends on the season, demand and availability. Recently there was a huge MJ bust in Milwaukee. The price of MJ doubled since it was harder to come by (even the cheap stuff), just like any other hard to find item. Be it corn, a certain baseball card, or at one time, Beanie Babies. It also depends on the quantity you are purchasing. Just like Sam's Club, buying in bulk is cheaper. As for coke it would depend on the purity level (what it was cut with ...baby laxitive, rat poison, vitamin B, ephedra, anything white and powdery), demand and availability.
posted on May 23, 2003 05:02:28 PM newFirst off, cocaine is EXTREMELY physically addicting.
Maybe to some, but certainly not to others. We've had friends who have used cocaine recreationally for years without becoming dependent or addicted. It's been my experience that some people have more addictive personalities than others. Some can use drugs and immediately that's all they live for. Others can use it and never have a problem.
Food, sex, alcohol, shopping, gambling, drugs, etc.... some people can indulge and not ever become obsessed or have any problems with any of them. To me, it's whether they have addictive personalities or not.
posted on May 23, 2003 05:22:54 PM new
I came in to say Gov. Erlich (Maryland) signed a bill to legalize mj for illness, today I believe. Bush is apparently pissed. I thought Erlich would be another lamb following Bush. Not in everything apparently.
Adding I think Linda is right. Some can handle smoking mj or cigarettes or gambling or drinking with no problems. It was hard for me to quite smoking cigarettes in college so I stay away from anything like mj or gambling for that same reason. Addictive pesonality.
It sort of looks easy, but it would be cruel....but inviting.
*