posted on May 23, 2003 07:43:50 PM newThese people try to make you believe they are full of compassion by saying women have rights and back room abortion centers will come alive and christians are evil hypocrites
I don't believe anyone said Christians are evil hypocrites. I am a Christian and you have no place to say that I am not. Yes, you do have freedom of speech and so do I. But, all I've heard to speak is the Word of God (commendable, yes). I believe God also gave us the power of free will and gave us a mouth to speak our own words. Have you no words of your own to speak?
if you don't like it don't read it
Ah, but I do read it. And, I agree with some of what you have to say. It's just that when you begin shouting (using capital letters) and quoting the Bible (which by the way was written by man - how can you be sure that imperfect man got it 100% right?) that you appear to be pointing an accusing finger at anyone who disagrees with you or who believes that in a woman's right to choose. That may not be the actual case, but that's how it appears. Don't believe in abortion? Think it's an evil sin that God will send you to hell for? Then, don't have one. No one here is trying to change anyone's mind. We are expressing our views on a very personal and touchy subject. I think up to last night, we were doing it in a rational manner. It would be nice if it could continue that way.
If you are poor and you have a baby and you believe in God, he will make a way.
It's nice you believe that way and I respect that. Really, I do. But, tell this to the thousands of single mothers living in shelters. Tell this to the thousands of kids who don't have a meal on the table every night or who cannot expect a gift under the tree at Christmas or are being toted from one drug house to another with their crack addicted mother. Tell this to the unwanted children that are thrown into the trash everyday. Better yet, tell this to a Government that continues to ignore the needs of its poor. That way it can ignore them even more with a clear conscious because God will take care of it for them.
"the rightous will not be seen begging for bread".
Oh, really. Tell that to our nation's hungry. I suppose they aren't rightous.
There are many problems in society today and not all of them can be solved simply by religion or a stronger belief in God. It's a nice thought, though. God made us free thinkers for a reason. Depending upon Him for all our needs is not it.
Continue to post. I do read them and like I said, I agree with some of your points and they are valid ones.
Edited to add:
Linda_K
I most definately agree that a girl should not be allowed to have an abortion without parental consent!!! It's hypocritical to allow that and yet make a parent responsible for everything a child does until he or she reaches the age of majority. Don't you think? I find it amazing that girls can get pregnant, hide the 9 months of pregnancy from everyone and then throw that child into the trash. I sometimes wonder if some parents notice their children at all.
Cheryl
My religion is simple, my religion is kindness.
--Dalai Llama
[ edited by CBlev65252 on May 23, 2003 07:48 PM ]
posted on May 23, 2003 08:28:02 PM new
kiara,LOL,takes one to know one.My choice of jobs,was travel and sometimes with a hint of danger.I am a Nov.Sag too..
posted on May 23, 2003 08:34:52 PM new
You cannot be a Christian an believe in abortion. If you say you are a Christian and you uphold abortion then you have no respect for the sanctity of life, the immortal soul and the soverign rule of God almighty.
I do believe the Bible is the divine and inspired word of God written by men whom he chose to do so. His disciples.
When Christ chose his apostles he CHOSE THEM. They did not Choose him. It was the custom of the day for disciples to choose their Rabbi. Christ defied this custom to illustrate that it is he who chooses us. You do not choose him. When he told this to the crowd, most all walked away except for 12 scruffy guys. And this is how he would up with only 12 disciples with what started with over 100.
You may choose to walk away too. It is your right. " His sheep hear is voice".
You may believe in the illusion of pro choice but there is no such thing. There is sin and their is life given from God. Anything contrary to the will of God is sin and the "wages of sin are death" which means no eternal life, but cast into an everlasting hell for eternity.
You think there is no hell? When you take the life of the unborn child, is it taken for eternity from the moment of the abortion. Is there any way you can reverse this decision once the deed is done? NO.
These are the facts. You can refute them, deny them, scoff at them, call me a sterotype bible thumber. I don't care because I know the truth. I have nothing to prove to you but to tell you the truth. Repent of your pride and ask Jesus into your life and forgive you for this evil position that robs the fetus of his life.
If you do not believe the words spoken form Jesus how could you possibly form a relationship with God? How would you know what your guidelines are? make up your own and call it Christianity. I don't beleive your tagline and don't give a hoot if you agree with me on any of my points. You are not the one I answer to or even care about as far as accepting my viewpoint.
I go by what is written in the bible. You don't agree that is divine holy and pure. Is God a liar? No he is not and neither is his word.
Jesus came to this earth a fetus and went through the gestation period and was born, live and died. Who is above his master?
posted on May 23, 2003 09:27:15 PM new
Your 'facts' are unbelievably one sided orleansgallery. Just because God said this and God said that, doesn't mean that He made people so stupid that they cannot make up their own minds for what's best for them. What I 'd like to know, is how does a person that has an abortion affect your life?
posted on May 23, 2003 09:47:23 PM new
Why do you think choosing to abort a fetus is about having a brain? Do you think if someone shoots someone with a gun they are using their brain power? You could apply logic to killing anybody!
Well, jo, his business is going down the drain and his wife died and he is constantly depressed and well, his health is bad and he is suffering so and his kids just can't afford to help him and he will just end up on welfare and well I'm gonna do him a favor and shoot him!
Do you think that God gave you a brain to PLAY GOD? he also gave you a HEART as well as a brain. He also gave LAW and laws are given for a reason. The intellect of man is faulty. God give wisdom. Wisdom is different from the intellectual. The bible says God give wisdom freely to all who ask.
Having an abortion is not about your intellect or your capaciaty to make decisions. God expects OBEDIENCE.
"IF you love me you will obey me". God did not give us any information that could not be used for our higher good in life. My arguement is not onesided and its basically not argument. That would imply I could possibly have somthing to defend. Ihave nothing to defend because I speak from the word of God.
How do I feel about a woman who has had an abortion? At first I was harsh but now I feel compassion. I know what it must be like to have a part of yourself taken away forever. The greif she must bear. I don't believe anyone has an abortion and walks away without a lasting scar. It is horror beyond horror to wake up and know that the "intellect" lead you to take away a human life. I know that Jesus loves women, mothers daughters and children. I'm sure his heart is greived for this sad situation. But his mercy is infinite and when a person realizes they made the WRONG CHOICE and the ask God for forgiveness he will forgive and it is no more in his sight.
To the "christian"---"The rightous will not be seen begging for bread" - you understanding of this scripture is wrong. Because there are hungry people in the world have nothing to do with this scripture. When you become saved by Jesus you will become one of the rightous and you will see that no one begs for bread. You wil be enabled to feed and nourish not only with physical food but with the grace of God who will lead you to whom he wants you to help. You may be poor and seemingly without hope but if you are in Christ you will be taken care of and you will be a beam of light in a dark world. Because a CHRISTIAN walks by FAITH and NOT by SIGHT.
[ edited by orleansgallery on May 23, 2003 09:50 PM ]
posted on May 23, 2003 10:01:58 PM new
Orleansgallery, when you say things like God expects OBEDIENCE, what is the point of Him creating us while giving us free will? If we'll all be punished if we don't obey, why be born?
You are right about one thing, abortion is awful and shouldn't have to go on. We all seem to be programmed to reproduce, so when an unwanted pregnancy does occur, what should be done?
posted on May 24, 2003 05:03:31 AM new
kraftdinner
There is a very, very thick wall between orleansgallery and the rest of the world. That's okay. The wider the wall that divides the two of us, the better. Hee.
Orleansgallery
Never said I didn't believe in hell. I'm not telling you what I believe because that is between me and God and me and those I care about. You'd just call me a heathen anyway.
junquemama
The patience I think comes from being a Libra! Oops, does knowing what astrological sign I was born under mean I'm going to you-know-where?
Cheryl
My religion is simple, my religion is kindness.
--Dalai Llama
[ edited by CBlev65252 on May 24, 2003 05:10 AM ]
posted on May 24, 2003 07:22:23 AM new
Yes there is a "thick wall" that divides me from the rest of the world. You are so correct. It is the word of God. And if you read it, you too will see there are standards of behavior that God expects of human beings.
Jesus said be not conformed to this world. The father of this world is Satan. It says these things in the bible, if you are a Christian then how can you not believe them?
God gives you two choices in your "free will". We cannot always make the correct choices because we are human. This is why there was a need for a savior to come to the earth and rescue us through forgiveness.
From what I have studied in the bible through self study and group study it that the world does not work based on the human idea of "fairness". It works on the will of God. I cannot explain it to you, you have "seek" God and he reveals understanding to you. There are somethings about God we may never understand in this life time.
Its good to ask the questions but just because you don't have answers to some of them does not mean there are no answers. God will defy your logic.
God tells humans "BE NOT WISE IN YOUR OWN EYES". It takes humility to come to God and a lot of trust. If God is God, if he is powerful and he is, if he created the heavens and the earth and he did, He will make a way for anyone who believes in him and seeks him. He will make a way for the poor mother and father, the drug addicted, the homeless, the fearful, the sad, the lonely.
Once I met a woman who was very smart. She was crafty and smart as a whip and she stole from me. There was no way I could match wits with her intellect. I prayed for wisdom and God showed me a way I would not have been able to think of in my own power and she stole from me no more.
It is much like a lamp. If you are not plugged into to the outlet you don't get the light. Personally, I think it is wonderful to have a faith in God that he is powerful and almight and soverign. It is like the parting of the red sea, just when all seems hopeless, just when you are about to fall flat on your face, the almighty is going to pull you out of it.
I don't expect people to agree with me. They did not agree with Jesus when he spoke the truth, they crucifed him, spit on him and reviled him. People do not like having their core beliefs challenged. The Pharasees who were the learned men of the day, despised Christ, he went against their way of doing business.
God loves all people and he loves people who have sinned. This is why Jesus came to the earth so they could be saved. God cannot tolerate sin he cannot bear it because he is so pure. Jesus is our intersessor between God and Man.
David slew Goliath with one rock and divine providence. Mother Teresa got to India on two pennies! Someone asked her how are you going to get to India on Two pennies and she said, "with two pennies and God I can do anything!" My car broke down and I needed a rental car, I had not enough money in my account to rent one. I went to the rental car place anyway, I prayed and I walked out of that place with a rental car and a thank you! It was a mircale, my card was not declined! PRAISE GOD--I stood on the promoise that the "RIGHTOUS WILL NOT BEG FOR BREAD - I took a bag of rice to the food bank just before my car broke down. I believe standing on this promise is what got the car for me because I believed, I was willing to believe. Faith THE GRAIN OF A MUSTARD SEED is all it takes to move a mountain.
God loves us and his love can help us beyond what we could ever dream. Its not a problem free journey but its an amazing one to see him work.
I will add one more thing, to the person who says that GOd is a liar because we have hungry and homeless in this country, you do not know the soul and the plan for each person in the shelter. God commands us to bear each others burden. You cannot wait around for the Goverment to solve your problems. We have to get the food to the people and the homes to the people, we have to be doers of the word and not just hearers. The fact that there are so many hungry and homeless in this country tells me that there is a spiritual lack in the land. People should roll up their sleeves and help their brethren. Do what you can! Help one! Just help one! But you cannot help in your own power. God is the one who gives us the power to help. Praise him!
This is all I'm going to say. Its up to you to make your choices. I pray for the best for all of you. AMEN!
[ edited by orleansgallery on May 24, 2003 07:23 AM ]
[ edited by orleansgallery on May 24, 2003 07:39 AM ]
posted on May 24, 2003 07:56:42 AM new
Orleansgallery
You cannot wait around for the Goverment to solve your problems. We have to get the food to the people and the homes to the people, we have to be doers of the word and not just hearers.
On this, at least, we agree. And on that, I do my part as often as I can.
I harbor no hard feelings to you or anyone else posting here. I'd like to think I read with an open mind other's posts, even yours. It's good to have strong beliefs and convictions. It's also good to be a little flexible in them.
God bless.
Cheryl
My religion is simple, my religion is kindness.
--Dalai Llama
posted on May 24, 2003 03:43:47 PM new
To those people who mistake orleansgallery's posts for Biblical fact, I would say the posts are internally inconsistent and oh, yeah, dead wrong.
You can be a Christian and "believe" in a woman's right to medical privacy. (Note: this doesn't mean I endorse abortion in all cases. It means I believe the government has no right to interfere in a woman's medical decisions.)
And for those people who keep talking about "before abortion was legal" -- abortion was not criminalized in the United States until the late 1800s. (The Atlantic Monthly published a very interesting article about the history of abortion) The criminalization of abortions was linked to a direct spike in the number of women dying of pregnancy-related complications. In the first year after New York State decriminalized abortions, the maternal mortality rate dropped 45 percent.
And I'm entirely sick of this garbage of "you wouldn't be here if you didn't have a pro-life mother." For the record, my mom is a radical pro-choice advocate. As an ob-gyn nurse and then a volunteer counselor in a teen center, she's seen too much not to be - in fact, she's participated in counter-protests and worked as a volunteer "escort" at women's clinics, helping women through the gamut of anti-choice whackos that scream and throw things at any woman entering a clinic. (She has a perverse sense of humor - she actually bought a supply of used khakis at a thrift store because she didn't want her Liz pants messed up. She calls them her "blood sweat and tears" pants because the patients are often distraught by the protestors and cry, she has to walk quickly which makes her sweat ... .and the protestors are all too fond of throwing pigs' blood on women, even those who are clearly far too old to be having abortions.)
Finally, a few words for those who still wear their rose-colored glasses about life in these United States: Yes, parents throw away their kids. When I was in high school and later, in college, my parents personally fostered three girls who had been "discarded" by their families. Two of the girls (one of whom was kicked out because she was pregnant) turned out OK. One (who was also pregnant) didn't. But all three of them would have had no place to go had my folks not taken them in.
I am lucky. I have good parents. Clearly, many people on this board were lucky in their parents as well, and have been good parents themselves. But don't let that experience blind you to the harsh reality for girls who are not so lucky. They are out there.
posted on May 24, 2003 04:57:47 PM new
Not sure if this has been said but let's not forget the numerous parents that pressured their daughters into having abortions. Parents who had close relationships with family doctors, parents who decided what was best for their daughters whether the daughters had other wishes or not.
Some of these daughters were unable to have children after that. Many of them also experienced guilt for the rest of their lives. Yes, this did happen and probably still happens every day.
posted on May 24, 2003 07:52:53 PM new
I saw this when looking for an article and wanted to share it. Please check out the whole page, I am sure some here have already read it. I am just adding a portion here. Notice every source sited has been written by a male, with the possible exception of Francis Beckwith. With males like this
around we don't need to plan for our future. They will do it (ALL of it) for
us. As Bush and crew's new policies allow this type to get their foot in the door of women's lives they will just push in further. Sort of like the rapists.
Bumper sticker (NOW website) $2.00 "Better a Bleeding Heart Than None at All"
Is abortion justifiable in cases of rape or incest?
"Although such a judgment is indeed anguishing, we must not forget that the same innocent unborn entity that the career-oriented woman will abort in order to avoid interference with a job promotion is biologically and morally indistinguishable from the unborn entity that results from an act of rape or incest. And since abortion for career advancement cannot be justified if the unborn entity is fully human, abortion cannot be justified in the cases of rape and incest. In both cases abortion results in the death of an innocent human life."
posted on May 24, 2003 08:08:45 PM new
Somewhat ironic but in a good way .... I am perusing this thread tonight as I scroll through floral websites looking for a good bouquet to send my sister on the birth of her first baby.
A boy....almost three weeks early ... 10 lbs. 12 oz. I shudder to think what would have happened had he gone full term.
posted on May 24, 2003 08:12:43 PM new
msincognito
Congratulations to your sister (and to you, too)! My daughter was almost 9 lbs (born 23 years ago). I'm 5'6 and 110 so she was large for me. Painful! But, worth it.
Cheryl
My religion is simple, my religion is kindness.
--Dalai Llama
posted on May 25, 2003 12:43:59 AM new
Wow, orleansgallery is right on the money. It's nice to see a wise Christian voice on this board. I hope the lefties don't run you off!
Abortion is a religious issue. People seem to forget about that 5th Commandment thingy that says "You shall not kill."
posted on May 25, 2003 05:59:09 AM new
CBles / Cheryl
thank you for fighting!
abortion is not a religious thing, because all religions are against it, it is up to every single woman to decide and no one can take that right away from her.
posted on May 25, 2003 10:15:04 AM new
ebayauctionguy, yes, the Bible says no killing but does that mean just people, or does that include animals, plants, etc?
orleansgallery, although we have the same God, your interpretation of how things work is different than mine. My God doesn't put limitations or restrictions on my thoughts or actions but allows me to have successes and make mistakes in order to allow me to grow and be a better person. It's the bad things that happen in life that shape your character, not the good things, so why would a God want to punish me again for something that makes me the person I am?
posted on May 25, 2003 07:15:47 PM new
Ebayauctionguy,
Thank you for your support! Its so hard to try to tell people who just don't understand Gods word the truth.
Just because some people are thrown away my man does not mean that God throws them away. I wish people could understand that hardship in life does not equal justification for abortion.
Kraft,
You keep looking at this issue with God as a "punishment" issue. Its is NOT a punishment issue, its a forgiveness issue. People make mistakes they feel horrid remorse about. In the case of abortion a woman who has had one may feel hideous guilt and condemnation in her heart and mind for what she has done. Jesus offers a way out and offers forgiveness. God has a set of laws that apply to human behavior. If we violate those laws the person who is hurt most is ourselves. God is Love and unconditional love. He offers forgiveness and hope. Humans make mistakes, even CHRISTIANS!
We do make mistakes, we have the ability to think and act in anyway we want. God gives us freewill. Why don't you read the bible? Read the new testament. Maybe you already have. You will find more clarity.
posted on May 25, 2003 08:43:32 PM new
I appreciate your willingness to discuss this stuff without all the harshness orleansgallery!
The punishment part comes from the Bible. If there's an afterlife and you don't follow the rules, you'll be punished, sometimes for eternity if you're real bad. For a woman that decides to have an abortion, THAT IS the punishment. It's a decision she has to live with forever. Why be punished again? The part I still don't understand, is who's business it is and how that personal decision affects yours, or anyone else's life? You poo-poo'd the idea about adoption, but if women were not able to choose abortion, the children up for adoption would rise to over 1000 times what it is now. We can't even look after the ones we have now so I don't see a solution except for abortion remaining a personal decision.
posted on May 26, 2003 10:22:42 PM new
Okay, here we go!
A woman who has an abortion can be forgiven for her "SIN". Sin is a reality and a reality in the sight of God. If you believe in Christianity and the bible you have to accept the idea of sin.
Lets take Hitler or Oday Huessin ( spelled wrong) take in account the hell they caused on earth. The countless lives they took, the pain and human misery they inflicted on innocent people. Do you think that in the after life they deserve punishment? do you think there will be consequences of a spiritual nature? I do. They had freewill and used it to further their ego centered will not the will of God.
The will of God is what we are suppose to seek in our lives. That is why it is important to read the bible and seek understanding.
Once a life has begun in the womb the choice is over. Its over. Now there is another human life begun, that life has a God given right to manifest itself under whatever conditions it is born into.
You cannot look at statistics to determine who lives and dies. Each person is an Individual with a destiny and a purpose that you cannot determine. You are a man and not a God.
If you believe in Christ then you must believe in Satan. Satan is the Prince of Darkeness and is referred to as a roaring lion who seeks to kill, steal and destroy.
Is not the Fetus Destroyed? Is it not Killed? Is it lifes not stolen? Yes is the answer to all three of these questions.
You have to look at a fetus as a human being. A woman does not have a choice under the laws of God to abort the fetus. A woman may have that right under the law of man but not under the law of God.
Think about God. God destroyed the entire earth once with water except for the only just people he could find. He wiped out Sodom except for Lot and his daughters. God destroys what he finds unacceptable in his sight.
Heaven is a kingdom not a harp land. There was a war in heaven and Gods most beautiful angel lucifer waged war against God with other rebellious angels. They now live in Hell. This universe is not a politically correct package. There are forces at work here that are bigger than you and I could ever imagine. They defy our logic and there are consequences we can't understand. THe bible says "we wrestle not against flesh and blood but with powers and principalites in high places" that is a very mysterious passage but it lets us know that there is a force on this earth that wrestles with us and wants to destroy our immortal soul.
God came to this earth as a fetus in the womb of Mary. He has gone through every stage of human development. He became flesh and preached to the earth, fufilled his destiny and rose from the grave to conquer death.
I can see God's prophecy being fufilled even now. The return of the Jews to Israel is a fufillment of prophecy. We are at the end times. There is going to be an armageddon. This is serious stuff. Its not a new age yogo meditation room, this is earth. There are wars and murders every day, every hour. The only hope is through our saviour Jesus Christ may you find him truely now. You need to read the bible, its going to blow your mind. Jesus was not a easy going guy, he said he came as a "sword" and he will divide father against son, mother against daughter etc. Many people in Jesus's time would not accept him, entire towns would reject him and he "shook the dust from his feet" when he left.
Not everyone is going to be allowed into the kingdom of heaven. You can accept it or not. You cannot "pick and choose" your own rules and call it christianity. The bible says, on the judgement day many are going to say "lord lord didn't we believe in you? Didn't we follow you? and he will reply "get away from me I never knew you".
I don't recall that I was against adoption? Also abortion affects other people because some people love the fetus? like some people get upset when trees are cut down or animals are abused. It affects your heart. If a woman feels pain and sorrow for her mistake then let her turn to Jesus and be healed. He can take away the pain and wipe the entire thing from history. When Jesus forgives it is as if it never happened. There is no more suffering or punishment! only joy and life!
[ edited by orleansgallery on May 26, 2003 10:27 PM ]
[ edited by orleansgallery on May 26, 2003 10:38 PM ]
posted on May 27, 2003 12:52:18 PM new
Thank-you for taking the time to write all that out orleansgallery! I can see you have a good heart and good intentions.
While I don't disagree with most of what you've said, I also know that God said "judge, and so shall you be judged". He didn't say don't have an opinion, He said no judging. That means I can't judge you and you can't judge me if we are to live by God's rules. That's why I ask how any decision another person makes, such as abortion, affects your life. Can you answer that question for me orleansgallery?
posted on May 27, 2003 02:17:40 PM new
Jesus followed his statement, "Judge not, and ye shall not be judged" with the statement, "Condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned." Now, to condemn people is different than to pass moral judgment on their actions. To say, "What you are doing is wrong," is different than saying, "You are condemned to hell and there is no hope for you."
In fact, we confront sin precisely so that sinners might be saved. For how can you be forgiven unless you are first made aware of what you’re doing wrong? Is not the prick of a guilty conscience the first step towards repentance? Is not repentance the prerequisite for experiencing the grace of forgiveness? And how would our conscience be pricked and we be brought to repentance unless we were confronted with the moral law? And how would we be confronted with the moral law unless someone was willing to read it to us and apply it to our particular sin?
However, if the goal of our moral judgment is repentance and salvation for those whose behavior we judge, it is assumed that we have first passed the same moral judgment on ourselves. It is assumed that we are turning away from our own sins and experiencing salvation ourselves. To be judgmental in the wrong way—the way that Jesus prohibited—is to pass moral judgment on the behavior of others without passing similar moral judgment on oneself. Why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but don’t see the plank that is in your own eye? You hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck that is in your brother’s eye.
Humor is intended by Jesus. We envision a man with a board sticking out of his eye trying to pick a small splinter out of the eye of another. We envision one blind man claiming to be able to lead another blind man—and both promptly tumbling into the first ditch. The point is the same in both cases. To solve the problem of another, we must first have solved the problem in ourselves.
It is human nature to judge the sins of others harshly while being blind to our own sins. The Pharisees were tough on the sins of the publicans but blind to their own pride. Many lawbreakers rant and rail against the unjust authorities, unaware that but for their own sin they would never have encountered the authorities in the first place. Fill in the blanks for yourself. Who bears the brunt of your moral outrage? And what neglected sin within you fuels the fire?
In the liturgy, we adopt a common attitude toward sin as we approach the altar of God. We all "acknowledge and bewail our manifold sins and wickedness, which we,from time to time, most grievously have committed, By thought, word, and deed" against God. Presumably, we have taken some time to reflect upon the particular thoughts, words and deeds that comprise our sin. My sins of thought, word and deed are different in content from yours. The thoughts that tempt me may not tempt you. You may be drawn to some idol or illicit pleasure that I find revolting. Yet we share a common bond of sin.
More importantly, we share a common bond of redemption. For though our sins be different, we share a common desire to be set free from them. And Christ is the propitiation for both your sins and mine. Our labors and travails may be different, but Christ gives us both rest.
God’s mercy towards me and my sins ought to purify and shape my attitude towards you and your sins. My judgment on sin ought to be the same no matter where I find the sin. I oppose sin in you the same way I oppose sin in me. I have accepted God’s gracious provision for the forgiveness of my sins, and so I want that same gracious provision applied to you as well.
The issue that clouds the contemporary discussion about judgement is whether there is any need for repentance at all. Those who say that "Judge not" means to not confront sin are generally those who do not want to be told they need to repent. They want Jesus to love them in spite of their sins, but they do not want Jesus to save them from their sins.
Jesus’ point is just the opposite. Jesus says that we all need to repent. Jesus says that we all need to abandon our characteristic sins and make wrenching lifestyle changes. But, Jesus says, begin your moral crusade with yourself. Once you have called in the surgical team to remove the telephone pole from you own eye, then you may begin, in mercy and truth, to apply the tweezers to the eye of your neighbor—so that both you and your neighbor may be saved.
[ edited by orleansgallery on May 27, 2003 02:21 PM ]
[ edited by orleansgallery on May 27, 2003 02:23 PM ]
posted on May 27, 2003 03:40:02 PM new
Oh orleansgallery.....now don't burst a blood vessel
God loves everyone, including Doctord who perform abortions and even those who get them. Something you and your self-righteous ilk seem to deny.
God also made it possible abortions. In the creation of the women's body, he made it possible to surgically remove a fetus.
Not that it is right, nor that it is wrong, but that it is the individual's decision, not yours.
Matthew 7:1-5
Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
A politician will call you intelligent to keep you ignorant. I tell you that you are ignorant so that you may want to be intelligent - Eugene Debs
[ edited by mlecher on May 27, 2003 03:41 PM ]
posted on May 27, 2003 04:19:24 PM new
Read it slowly and completely. God gave me the brain to make healthy judgements and don't give me your left wing speak of using the holy bible to silence me. Calling me self rightous is what you are really calling yourself. I am not self rightous I am GOD RIGHTOUS and GOD IS RIGHT.
God invented guns? So go shoot someone? Is that a personal decision too? GOD made the human body to be able to receive a bullet? does that make it okay to shoot someone? What a sophmoric anaology. How old are you?
If we don't have judgement we don't have a society with laws.
READ IT:
Those who say that "Judge not" means to not confront sin are generally those who do not want to be told they need to repent. They want Jesus to love them in spite of their sins, but they do not want Jesus to save them from their sins.
You can't do whatever you want in life and the rest of us stand there like idiotic fools saying, wow man Jesus said judge not.
Jesus meant MORAL JUDGMENT I cannot judge a woman who has had an abortion as a person who will go to hell. But I can make a judgement as to what is an IMMORAl ACT and I can make that judgement based on GODS JUDGEMENT that abortion violates GODS WILL.
You just don't want to read the bible and submit to Gods word. Face it.
[ edited by orleansgallery on May 27, 2003 04:24 PM ]
posted on May 27, 2003 04:23:26 PM new
I appreciate where you're coming from orleansgallery, but all I wanted to know, was how any decision(s) another person makes, such as abortion, affects your life. Can you answer me that, in your own words?
Thanks mlecher! Doesn't that wee bit of Biblical advice (no judging) make more sense than anything?
(clarity)
[ edited by kraftdinner on May 27, 2003 04:31 PM ]
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As Bush and crew's new policies allow this type to get their foot in the door of women's lives they will just push in further. Sort of like the rapists.