posted on May 27, 2003 07:51:49 PM newWEll let me tell you, I have the AUTHORITY to tell him to clean his room because I am his MAMA and children are to "obey" their parents.
I bet you do have the AUTHORITY, in capital letters. Spare the rod and spoil the child right?
But Christians are not going to be your whipping boys anymore.
Funny I thought that term was used for black slaves who were "owned" by New England Puritans and the holy white Christians of the Southern Bible Churches? Maybe I'm wrong.
There is a change in this land and people who believe fish are murdered and that ilk are going to lose control of the political machine. Because Americans are turning back to God.
God I hope people take this kind of talk seriously and wake up before it is too late.
The U.S. isn't "of Christians, by Christians and for Christians." This is also a country of other beliefs, of Islam, Bahi,Buddhism, Judaism, Atheism and Agnosticism(sp?)
[Bumper sticker: www.now.org website. $2.00 "God Sees, and She Is Pissed."]
Edited:
You said:
[b]"You think CHristians are suppose to be milk toast sweetie pies that hold your hand?
[/b]
Aren't females supposed to be submissive in
your kind of Christianity?
You aren't supposed to be a "milk toast sweetie" anyway, you are supposed to cook the "milk toast," make dinners for the church's men, shut up and follow. Women must submit to their mate and must let men lead, for men are shown in the Bible to be the leaders.
posted on May 27, 2003 08:45:35 PM new
wow look at you go! you just hate Christians don't you! You have them stereotyped as enemy number one. Look at you judge me! I do have authority as a parent and I do hold my child accountable for his actions, any loving parent would. He is an honor student, great at karate has a host of friends and loves to go to Church. I am so proud of him.
Whipping boy, is just a term, you can take it the way you want it. I'm sure you want to make somthing out of it that is not there.
I am totally for the freedom of religion. You can believe whatever you want! That has never been my issue! Christ would never force people to believe in him. Its not like that. But I do hope that people will find their way to Jesus.
Yes, there is that woman as domestic in some churches but women are overcoming that even in the evangelical churches. Being submissive is not about being powerless. Its about letting you husband at least feel like he has some masculinity! My husband and I have a very equitable relationship. We disagree all the time. Its marriage. He makes some really bad decisions sometimes about things but I let him make them anyway. It makes his respect for my judgment grow and I don't have to make him feel like a castrated worm becaues I am right.
I don't think God is a she. I believe God is a male energy and there is also a female energy but of course I don't know much about that because it is not in the bible.
People who try to justify dominance over women in the bible will have a hard time proving their case. Jesus hung out with women all the time. He loved women and he respected their ideas.
I AIN"T gettin the bumper sticker. I don't do bumperstickers. I don't like the national organization of women at all. I wanted to like them but they just hate men too much. I love men. I think men are great. Some are not, but most are really great.
posted on May 27, 2003 08:50:44 PM new
oh yeah and about those slaves down south, there were plenty of yankees that owned slaves. I got the history to prove it. Only 3 percent of the population of the south owned slaves. Don't judge churches on a sterotypical view you know little history about.
posted on May 27, 2003 09:25:46 PM new
Nobody here hates Christians, in fact everyone here has been trying to have a peaceful discussion with you but you seem too closed minded to other points of view. That's OK though.
posted on May 27, 2003 09:29:19 PM new
I have thought about my posts. I'm satsified with all my posts except one. Where I posted that a woman has to be a "witch" to have an abortion. It was my first or second post.
I don't really know why I posted such a harsh thing. I look back at it and I think, was that me? why would I say that? its so wrong. I apologize for anyone I hurt with that post. Its just amazes me I posted such a thing. It goes against what I profess.
I know that a woman who has an abortion goes through a hell that is unimaginable. Its not an easy thing. To add to her pain condemnation for her actions only compounds her agony. See, I know that abortion is a sin in the eyes of God but his love is greater than the sin. He forgives beyond all measure and is more than willing to forgive and replace that pain with a peace that is unimaginable. I know this. Take my word I know this...God's mercy is the most beautiful thing in the world. I have failed him so many times in so many ways but he was always there to show me his love. He forgave me of my sins and one in particular. He filled my hell filled heart with a peace that is beyond understanding. I sought him with all my might to heal me. God is such love and power. If there is anyone here who has had an abortion and feels the pain and the hell it causes ask him to forgive your sin and he will fill you with peace. I would pray that no one would ever have to go that route. Its the hardest route to go. Trust in God. I would hope if anyone could be spared the pain and agony of abortion. People who can so easily promote choice don't realize there is not choice in abortion.
posted on May 28, 2003 04:45:46 AM new
orleansgallery
You are getting better.
I don't attend church because as I said before, I don't believe in organized religion. I don't need someone to "read" the Bible to me and then force their interpretation of it upon me. I don't need to be told I'm going to h*ll because of something I did or didn't do. That's between me and God. I don't believe in h*ll. I believe that's here. Want to freak out more? I believe in reincarnation. I believe we come back over and over again until we get it right. That's h*ll. I believe I've walked this way before.
When I was going to church and talking to God and Jesus where was I? Out on the street with two children. Lost my home, my job and most of my possessions. I talked to Jesus, didn't get a check in the mail. Don't even try to tell me that I committed some awful sin to be thrown onto the street with two children, either. That was life. That was life under Bush the First. I got myself out of that mess. Well, me and my family members. So, no I don't believe that if you are down and out all you have to do is talk to God or Jesus and all your troubles will melt like lemon drops. But, if you do, that's a-okay. I respect you for it.
But, heck. What do you want from a family of sinners? My mother was married 4 times; one mentally and physically abused her and another went wacko on religion and walked out leaving her with 5 children to raise on her own so he could persue his religion. My younger brother was gay and died from AIDS when he was 30, another brother is an alcoholic and one is HIV+ from prior drug use. All this while regular members of a local church. I have a brother who is Mormon and doing quite well and I'm studying Bahai and also doing well. If my greatest sin is that I believe Roe vs. Wade is a good thing than I don't think I'm doing too badly. Everyone believes in his or her own way. I don't think there's any wrong way to believe in God.
Thank you, orleansgallery, for trying to be a little bit less harsh. Shouting gets you nothing, but a sore throat.
Cheryl
My religion is simple, my religion is kindness.
--Dalai Llama
posted on May 28, 2003 05:37:36 AM neworleans: "I have thought about my posts. I'm satsified with all my posts except one. Where I posted that a woman has to be a "witch" to have an abortion."
Devil made you do it?
orleans, I have been a member of the same church domination for about 40 years. I made a choice recently to quit going until said church clarifies their plan for the "Faith-based initiative", abortion and separation of church and state.
orleans: oh yeah and about those slaves down south, there were plenty of Yankees that owned slaves. I got the history to prove it. Only 3 percent of the population of the south owned slaves.
Orleans I said: "term was used for black slaves who were "owned" by New England Puritans and the holy white Christians of the Southern Bible Churches?"
I believe the Puritans would be considered Yankees, wouldn't they? I suspect only 3% owned slaves because they were the only ones to afford it. Same with the Yankees.
NPR reported early this morning that Bush has advanced his policy of reducing the separation of church and state. He allowed a Seattle church federal money after an earthquake (I think that was last year?)
Yesterday it was federal money to restore Boston's Old North Church.
By Pamela Ferdinand and Alan Cooperman
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, May 28, 2003; Page A03
BOSTON, May 27 -- In a policy shift on the line between church and state, Interior Secretary Gale A. Norton said today that federal preservation grants may be awarded to historic properties used for religious purposes. <snip>
It is one of a series of steps the Bush administration is taking on its own to carry out the president's promise to help religious groups compete for federal funds, despite the stalling of legislation to promote his "faith-based initiative."
posted on May 28, 2003 07:56:27 AM new
Oh well I'm sure your church is heart broken to lose you. I'm voting for Bush as are millions of other Americans. I'm sure he will be re-elected. Faith based initiative is okay by me since our churches or mosques or whatever is part of our heritage and country. Churches do a lot to further harmony in the nation. Its always paranoid people like yourself that can't distinguish common sense.
You response to my apology "devil made you do it" shows what a bitter person you are. I don't think the devil made me do it. I think I have some issues within myself I need to look at more closely.
Anway always nice chatting with such and "objective" person such as yourself.
[ edited by orleansgallery on May 28, 2003 08:01 AM ]
posted on May 28, 2003 08:22:10 AM newI'm voting for Bush as are millions of other Americans. I'm sure he will be re-elected.
Off the subject, but I just had to respond.
Oh, yes, Bush and his help the people tax cut. Great thing that $400 if you have a child AND made at least $30,000 last year. That leaves the vast majority of single parent households out of the windfall. Sure is a big boost for the poor, isn't it. Wasn't Jesus a big helper of the poor? Tell me where Bush follows Jesus by helping the poor. The rich just keep getting richer, don't they? The more money you made, the bigger your tax cut and the bigger your little old bonus check. Create a larger deficit to help those who are least in need.
I pray to the God I believe in that he is NOT re-elected.
Cheryl
My religion is simple, my religion is kindness.
--Dalai Llama
posted on May 28, 2003 09:24:52 AM new
Lord orleans, there was someone years ago who always said "Devil made me do it" on a movie or TV show. I don't remember. I just remember kids saying it. When I saw what you wrote that was the first thing that came to mind. I don't believe there is a devil, in the form you probably do anyway. Now there are those in the administration who might
fit my definition.
Nope I am not bitter. I am upset. I do not like "Men of God" screwing little kids, raping nuns and saying women aren't allowed
to lead churches because of Bible verse they only use to their advantage. I don't like
the idea some of those churches could use my tax money compliments of Mr. Bush soon.
I am sure the church doesn't miss my money, but the hundreds of volunteer hours could be a different story. Frankly, there are many
I know leaving organized religion.
edited for spelling in a hurry.
[ edited by aposter on May 28, 2003 09:37 AM ]
[ edited by aposter on May 28, 2003 09:40 AM ]
posted on May 28, 2003 11:13:04 AM new
well you can leave if you want. I dont know why you are leaving. Do you think you live in a perfect world? If you don't stay and voice your opinion and fight for your beliefs then you lose? right?
People do corrupt things in churches because churches are made of people and people are sinful. What do you expect? That church should be exempt from the rest of the world in reality?
I don't know about all that as far as the Bush Tax cut. Some people are glad to get it. Its not the poor in this country that get the dog doo doo kicked out of them, its the middle class. The poor get medicaid, welfare, food stamps, free gov housing, etc. I get nothing. I can't even afford health insurance. I didn't fare any better under Clinton than Bush in that department so I really don't see where Democrats and Republican are very much different from each other.
posted on May 28, 2003 11:25:48 AM new
The poor get medicaid, welfare, food stamps, free gov housing, etc. I get nothing.
The working class do not get medicaid, welfare, food stamps, free gov housing etc. Some that are poverty sticken do receive some help but not very much. One of the things they also do not receive is opportunity.
While Clinton was president his focus was entirely on remaining president. The Republican controlled House and Senate undermined any program his administration attempted to institute which is why there is no National Health Care system in this country today. This is cause for more needless suffering by America's people than any other single issue.
posted on May 28, 2003 11:44:43 AM new
I don't know what you mean about Gov health insurance or health care. Wouldn't that limit a medical worker's income potential? That would destroy initiative for people to become Doctors etc. It take a lot of work for a person to become a dr and if you try to cap out a salary then what happens? We lose the best and the brightest for mediocre?
Who does not receive opportunity because they are poor or working class? could you give me an example? Opportunity is up to the individual. I believe it was poor people who settled this country, not the rich. What do you mean they don't have an opportunity?
[ edited by orleansgallery on May 28, 2003 11:45 AM ]
posted on May 28, 2003 12:44:34 PM new
Where will these brightest of Doctors go? England? France? Germany? Canada? The vast majority of Western nations have some form of health care for their citizens with one exception US.
With the removal of funds from such basic services as early education, after school programs, head start pograms, community colleges and on and on with the exception of the wealthy whose opportunities are not limited by both economics and the class structure of our society.
The founders of this nation were for the most part from the aristocaracy. One exception however were the convicts, indentured servants and slaves.
posted on May 28, 2003 02:12:51 PM new
well you don't make a very good argument. If cananda is so great for health care then why do so many of them want to come here for surgery? Do you want the goverment appointing your Dr? I think you leave out the most valuable feature of why people become doctors "incentive". If the incentive is not there in terms of cash, you are not going to have the kind of dr. you want.
Human nature dictates success.
Many of those programs such as Head Start are debatable if they actually make any contribution toward development. After school programs have been proven to show no increase in learning in children. After school children are tired. Just like you are after work.
I never had head start or free lunch or after school care. I never participated in any federally funded program. My parents worked and my father worked with a bad back. I studied my school work and paid my way through college. so whats the big deal? Nobody kept me down baby, I was born poor as dirt. But thats the diffence between me and you, I'm a doer and you are a whiner.
I will agree with free school lunch and breakfast. I think kids on full stomachs learn better. I'm not opposed to spending my tax dollars on feeding kids.
You understanding of American history is really limited. Sounds to me like you have been brainwashed by leftist opinion instead of studying the books. You need to learn a lot more about your country and drop the cynical outlook.
[ edited by orleansgallery on May 28, 2003 02:54 PM ]
posted on May 28, 2003 03:00:58 PM newBut thats the diffence between me and you, I'm a doer and you are a whiner.
orleansgallery, I've been here for quite a few years and I can't remember any other new poster that showed up and judged all of the rest of us as much as you have. It sounds like you think you know it all and that you are perfect and right in all you say and all you do and that the rest of us are all completely flawed.
posted on May 28, 2003 03:33:08 PM new
well uh lets see, I'm not whining about the federal goverment having enough power to thwart my life am I? I personally believe that I have enough ability to survive and even thrive with my own ability.
In one of his former posts he said my "argument had no validity", is that not a judgement? Or do you only judge me as the judgemental one since you don't like my point of view?
Seems to me you are picking and choosing posts as to who is judgemental and who is not. I've been around here many years too missy. I just only recently joined in the chat. I have seen more fighting and nit picking on this chat board than in a heard of wild dogs--over the years. So your "seniority" plea does not impress me much.
You just don't like anyone who is not a leftist liberal abortion loving, socialist do you? thats what you don't like.
[ edited by orleansgallery on May 28, 2003 03:35 PM ]
[ edited by orleansgallery on May 28, 2003 03:35 PM ]
posted on May 28, 2003 03:39:15 PM new
Major reason medical care costs so much is because doctors have to carry such outrageous amounts of insurance because of the ambulance chasing attorneys and "victims" out to make a buck.
Ummm...you can be appointed doctors here too. it's called an HMO. Or going to the Board of Health.
My house is part of the working poor. My girlfriend is out of work right now and 1/2 of her unemployment in a month would cover her COBRA. So she had to drop insurance. To get new coverage, her allergies and other medical things aren't covered by a new policy for 365 days. Which, on a monthly basis is over $500 a month. So she hopes she doesn't get hurt or sick (good thing we're too poor to go to China!).
--- I'm a doer and you are a whiner---
Wow! So much for that good Christian mentality of not judging!
By the way, the people who came here were some of the better off. I know since some were related to my girlfriend (remember, the one from Salem, MA who's a witch). However, even back then the rich managed to scr*w things up and had to have the American Indians bail them out.
Opportunity may be up to the individual, but when you are kept down, you lose hope that you'll ever get out of your situation and even if you did, it probably wouldn't even help.
Perhaps you didn't benefit from after school programs or Head Start programs hwever in the inner cities where these programs are desperately needed I think yu;d be surprised. For many of these children, this is the only structure they receive and possibly the only positive influence they encounter in their day.
posted on May 28, 2003 03:59:40 PM new
Hey don't use that judgment crap on me to say I'm not a christian. I know a whiner when I see one and hear one and read one. I am a doer. I don't want for the feds to make my day.
No one is "kept down". That is an illusion and a victim mentality that keeps people down. People can empower themselves without uncle sam and do amazing things.
Do you people hate successful people? If a person is rich does that mean he is bad? Gee, maybe it means they worked hard and produced somthing in life and all the cling ons who are too lazy to do for themselves want to suck off the rich guy like a parasite.
Sure some of the people who came to American had money but the majority did not. Have any of you read the biography of Ben Franklin? Or Daniel Boone, or read the logs of the Mayflower and other ships of passage? This country was filled with immigrants and people who had hope for religious freedom and a better life. They were the majority. Our constitution was written for the people. Go over to Iraq and live under OOOODAY or whatever his name is for a while. Then you may have a better appreciation for this country. This country is great and it is full of great people who can do for themselves. We don't need the federal goverment to hold our hands all the way down to road.
posted on May 28, 2003 04:01:22 PM newSo your "seniority" plea does not impress me much.
It was not a plea. It was a statement and I did not write it to impress you.
Witch, Honey, Bubba, Dude and Missy are some of the names you have called us, I may have missed a few. To me it sounds like you are talking down to all of us and that you are still quite young.
You chose to ignore the comment I made about your son shouting at you and why he most likely does that.
Perhaps instead of spouting off at all of us you should sit back and read what others have to say. Not everyone here is right or wrong but everyone has valid points to make. We do not have to agree with everyone or anyone at all. Your word is not the final word.
posted on May 28, 2003 04:11:22 PM new
Cblev
I just really read your post. I figured there must be a reason you kept holding up the grim stats to reason why Jesus is not the way. You said you were out on the streets and you prayed and nothing happened.
Here are two things I will tell you. You mentioned bush 1.
It has never mattered to me who is in the white house. I always work. If i have to wait tables I do it. I always have work and I work hard. The President of the United States owes me no personal favors. I dont think like that.
If you were on the streets and your prayed to Jesus, you claim you prayers were not answered. Are you off the street now? Are your children safe? It seems your life has improved to me or you would not be chatting online on a computer which takes a degree of literacy and money. How do you know Jesus did not help you? Did you go absolutely without food? Did you have absolutely no where to go? Did not any small favor come your way? Do you have your health?. It seems to me Jesus did help you but maybe not in the way you expected. I am sure if we looked at your situation we would find a missing piece of information you are not giving. It seems to me you have a powerful testimony. But there is somthing missing.
I feel bad for your childhood. It sounds really terrible. You have had some really bad experiences no doubt. But you are angry at God. Its not that God did not come through for you, you are angry. I understand why and how you could be. But I think he has made you strong.
posted on May 28, 2003 04:12:37 PM new
Cblev
I just really read your post. I figured there must be a reason you kept holding up the grim stats to reason why Jesus is not the way. You said you were out on the streets and you prayed and nothing happened.
Here are two things I will tell you. You mentioned bush 1.
It has never mattered to me who is in the white house. I always work. If i have to wait tables I do it. I always have work and I work hard. The President of the United States owes me no personal favors. I dont think like that.
If you were on the streets and your prayed to Jesus, you claim you prayers were not answered. Are you off the street now? Are your children safe? It seems your life has improved to me or you would not be chatting online on a computer which takes a degree of literacy and money. How do you know Jesus did not help you? Did you go absolutely without food? Did you have absolutely no where to go? Did not any small favor come your way? Do you have your health?. It seems to me Jesus did help you but maybe not in the way you expected. I am sure if we looked at your situation we would find a missing piece of information you are not giving. It seems to me you have a powerful testimony. But there is somthing missing.
I feel bad for your childhood. It sounds really terrible. You have had some really bad experiences no doubt. But you are angry at God. Its not that God did not come through for you, you are angry. I understand why and how you could be. But I think he has made you strong.
posted on May 28, 2003 04:22:38 PM new
I never said my word is the final word. Who said that? You said that! Yes I did choose to ignore your post about me taking authority and being a responsible parent to my son. Some comments just aren't worth the energy you know?
I think everybody here has the abilty to take care of themselves and they don't need you to defend them. Everyone I have spoken with has been an adult and have no fear of me and my opinions such as you do. So why don't you stop trying to tell me what to do, which is a form of control and co-dependent behavior.
I'm sure you have better things to do with you time...missy.
posted on May 28, 2003 04:36:14 PM new
orleansgallery, I am not defending anyone. I've been around long enough to know that everyone here can speak for themselves just as I do. No one else speaks for me and never have I been controlled by others nor do I have any wish to control them.
I do not fear you nor do I fear your opinions but I strongly suspect that you already know that.
And my time is most always spent doing exactly what I wish to do. I have written all of this in a totally relaxed state of mind and with a pleasant smile so don't try to read anything more into it.
posted on May 28, 2003 04:36:52 PM new
I never said you weren't a Christian. Please, take a moment to reread what exactly I said. As for knowing a "whiner" when you see one, 1. you may have a problem with yur eyesight as the poster wasn't whining (to whine, one must complain about a problem and not offer any solutions, which the poster did offer the solution of giving the poor an opportunity), and 2. To say things like that really isn't in the Christian teachings. I'm pretty sure Jesus didn't walk up to the poor blind and sick and call them whiners. Rather, he took the high road, didn't judge and offered them help.
Perhaps if you were to shelve your anger, you'd see we aren't whining, b*tching, judging or even really attacking you.
By the way, my girlfriend read your posts for today and she accepts your "apology" regarding your witches oging to h*ll post.
posted on May 28, 2003 05:00:14 PM new
orleansgallery
I didn't have a horrible childhood. There were bumps along the way, but I have a very loving mother and wonderful siblings. There is no missing information. Jesus did not pull me out of my troubles, I did. I did it with the brains God gave me. I don't rely on God or Jesus to take care of what He gave me the resources to do. Edited to add: I am not angry at God. You could not possibly know that because you don't know me.
I'm voting for Bush as are millions of other Americans. I'm sure he will be re-elected. Faith based initiative is okay by me since our churches or mosques or whatever is part of our heritage and country. Churches do a lot to further harmony in the nation. Its always paranoid people like yourself that can't distinguish common sense.
How can you say you don't care who is in the White House? Weren't those your words? Surely, unless the candidate were a devout Christian, you wouldn't vote for him or her.
What does always working have to do with anything? The working class poor are working. Duh. Are you a single parent? If not, you could not possibly know what it's like to try and raise children while earning a meager wage. You couldn't possibly know what it's like for that parent to find safe, reliable and affordable daycare so that they can work. So, you suggest a single parent work 24/7 and ignore the needs of their children? And does your present government give a rat's a** about the poor? Heck no. Don't give me the crap about the poor getting Medicaid and food stamps either. They've cut the heck out of Medicaid and the food stamp program. The millions that are going over to Iraq right now could be used to institute a national health care plan or to help pull the poor up out of the gutter. Instead of rebuilding churches, we need to rebuild our own people.
I work with the cities poorest people every single day providing them with alternative healthcare that they couldn't get anywhere else. I see them come in after a doctor has told them to go home and die. Why? Because they couldn't afford what it would take to make them well again. I see people on Social Security Disability getting $300 a month and having a $200 deductible on their government subsidied health coverage. They cannot afford to pay their rent let alone get prescriptions filled. Your suggestion to them would be? Bush another 4 years?
Cheryl
My religion is simple, my religion is kindness.
--Dalai Llama
[ edited by CBlev65252 on May 28, 2003 05:03 PM ]
posted on May 28, 2003 05:35:44 PM new
well of course I don' know you anymore than you know me but I did read your post and you said Jesus didn't help you.
here are your words:
"When I was going to church and talking to God and Jesus where was I? Out on the street with two children. Lost my home, my job and most of my possessions. I talked to Jesus, didn't get a check in the mail. Don't even try to tell me that I committed some awful sin to be thrown onto the street with two children, either. That was life. That was life under Bush the First. I got myself out of that mess."
So which is it with you? are you talking to Jesus and not getting an answer? or or you making it all work on your own? your posts are confusing
So you give God none of the Glory for you getting out of your situation? If you prayed and you got out of your situation Jesus gave you the way. You can't take all the credit. Sounds to me like you have the sin of PRIDE.
posted on May 28, 2003 05:46:43 PM new
oh yes and as to answer your question about bush, was it any different under clinton? NO that would be a big NO. Clinton stayed in office two terms and he was the PRESIDENT of the United States and he didn't get it done. They are never going to get it done, don't you get it? Presidents don't care about your health or mine, they care about getting elected and riding around in airforce one! Its about the money.
I would suspect that a large part of your "poor" are junkies and transients that won't work for a living. DEAD WEIGHT! too good to wash dishes. I see bums or poor people asking for hand outs every day. Do you think they could work at a carwash or wash dishes NOOOO that would be work. Look at the Mexicans they love to work. They have a great work ethic, they are the ones who will be running this country in twenty years. I say thank GOD.
I am not being cruel to the poor and not showing Christian beliefs when I find it appalling to read all this phoney politically correct goobledeegook about the poor. What you are purposing is to create a welfare state where the producers in society are punished with excessive tax to carry the dead weight in society. No wonder businesses want to operate overseas! people like you want to tax them to the point of bankruptcy!with social programs where the feds are not only big brother but big mama too!
I know we have social ills but creating more goverment is not the solution. Get goverment out of our lives! Please don't turn our medical system into a gov. bureaucracy. Don't you know what a horror that would be?
[ edited by orleansgallery on May 28, 2003 05:50 PM ]
