davebraun
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posted on June 28, 2003 08:20:26 PM new
ebayauctionguy is right on the mark with one aspect "what people do in their bedrooms is not the government's business".
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ebayauctionguy
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posted on June 28, 2003 08:32:06 PM new
Kraft, my point was that homosexuality is a mental disorder (in my opinion). Homosexuality and schizophrenia are similar in that both are problems with identity. And yes, I would consider it unacceptable behavior to see a schizophrenic person walking down the street barking like a dog, chasing cats and urinating on fire hydrants.
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clarksville
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posted on June 28, 2003 08:32:21 PM new
How about:
"what consenting adults do in their bedrooms is not the government's business".
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ebayauctionguy
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posted on June 28, 2003 08:37:05 PM new
Bigcity, you'll be seeing a lot of the Terminator after he's elected governor of CA next year.
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bigcitycollectables
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posted on June 28, 2003 08:38:27 PM new
Hey thats fine with me. All his policies are liberal.
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bigcitycollectables
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posted on June 28, 2003 08:40:20 PM new
He said on Jay Leno the only weopons of mass destruction are in the white house
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ebayauctionguy
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posted on June 28, 2003 08:45:48 PM new
True, Arnold is Republican In Name Only, but we can't expect much better here in the People's Republic of California.
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gravid
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posted on June 28, 2003 09:48:56 PM new
And what exactly does lying with a man the same as a woman mean? Is that possibly a prohibition on sodamy that does not extent to fellatio?
The truth is a lot of what you read in the bible is difficult to understand without the cultural context.
For example many preachers will condemn Onan as masturbating when in fact his sin was to not get his sister-in-law pregnant as she had the right to demand to keep her dead husbands line of inheritance alive.
When you apply today's predjudices to yesterdays
reality sometimes the assumptions are silly.
Traanslation far from a living speaker of the era the writing took place can be just guessing.
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Twelvepole
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posted on June 28, 2003 10:06:19 PM new
Cheryl I got news for you sweetheart... there is an ignore button if you don't like what I have to say...
Your tolerance of deviant behavior is sickening...
If homosexuality is really a genetic defect, then it really is related to Pedophillia... just one step away from kiddie porn... yea Gay...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND... 
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kiara
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posted on June 28, 2003 10:33:03 PM new
twelvepole, you used to post on AW a few years back and though some didn't agree with you I don't think you were ever like you are now. I didn't go to the RT in those days though, I just remember you from the Outlook.
Then you disappeared and came back so angry and bitter and you seem to hate everything and everybody. What happened when you were gone? Some really bad experiences or what?
You don't seem to be very happy and just seem to spend your time trolling all the boards making rude and crude comments. It's pathetic.
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kraftdinner
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posted on June 28, 2003 11:31:23 PM new
He's been screwed by independant, unfeminine b*tches only after his sperm and money, kiara. Isn't it obvious?
P.S. Thank-you Cheryl! You can be on my team anytime. 
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profe51
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posted on June 28, 2003 11:49:33 PM new
I don't get it. I always thought conservatism stood for small, non-intrusive government, states' and particularly individual rights. It just doesn't jibe for me that it's conservatives who are so anxious to control individual's lives. I guess I must have been mistaken about them. Silly me.
___________________________________
What luck for the leaders that men do not think. - Adolph Hitler
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austbounty
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posted on June 29, 2003 03:34:32 AM new
No prof!
Conservatives, by definition like to conserve the status quo, they dwell in the past, they don’t wish to see a society evolve or to change even if it be for the better. They like things to stay the way they are or the way they were.
The greatest advances are usually not made by the conservatives but by the radicals.
Did conservatives seek ‘reform’, did they seek to abolish slavery, or child labour or the status of women, or to get us out of the mine shafts after 8 hours work.
Hell no! They rejected change every time, it’s the radicals that bring change.
I don’t know about USA but here in Australia it is often said that it is the politicians on the left that bring on social reform.
The funny thing is, (I don’t remember who wrote it), that conservatives praise radicals too, but they only praise radicals 100 years after they are dead.
We see them demand for limited government but when it suits them they want intervention, tariffs, subsidies.
So why do they ask for ‘limited government’ the fact is they don’t care either way, just as long as it maintains the way things were.
They seldom seek to move forward, to improve, to change for the better.
Nature, the weather, the sun the stars, all evolve, these guys actually seem to create a void and leave no other way for things to change but to suddenly come crushing in.
What’s wrong with our nation’s ‘face’ or skin colour changing, will it bring death for all.
You ask them and they refuse to answer; WILL YOU LOVE YOUR GRANDCHILD ANY LESS IF IT’S SKIN IS DIFFERENT TO YOUR?
Conservative = Stick in the mud.
Prof, please copy and paste the story you once told us about the other family across the border that stole the cattle and why the shootings have stoped.
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CBlev65252
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posted on June 29, 2003 04:19:13 AM new
Geeze, twelve, take a chill pill. Why would I put you on ignore? We're all better off knowing where you are.
Cheryl
My religion is simple, my religion is kindness.
--Dalai Llama
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Twelvepole
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posted on June 29, 2003 04:26:58 AM new
Kiara, my posting style hasn't changed at all... people just remember the good about someone...
There has to be another "voice" posting to let all the lurkers out there that not everyone is in favor of such deviant behavior....
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
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kiara
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posted on June 29, 2003 07:55:43 AM new
Kraftdinner
It does seem obvious. Or else he never got over it when Muffy dumped him for the captain of the football team. I still admire you and Cheryl for your tolerance.
That explains it twelvepole, you are not posting your views to us but to that big room of imaginary lurkers that dwell in your head. Do they cheer you on each time you post?
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CBlev65252
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posted on June 29, 2003 08:15:50 AM new
kiara
It takes all kinds of people to make the world go round. Who else but the twelvepoles of the world to keep us on our toes!
Cheryl
My religion is simple, my religion is kindness.
--Dalai Llama
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austbounty
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posted on June 29, 2003 08:22:58 AM new
It would be much better for our souls to stop attacking each other, and concentrate on those prick$ that have made our lives so obviously bitter.
12 has a small voice, like us all here.
He can do little harm.
It's the big voices we need to concentrate on.
We are all 'victims' here.
Victims of our culture.
Speak on 12, give us your opinions and we will examine & judge.
I think your own conscience knows if it's right or wrong. If you know it's wrong, it may embitter you until you repent, not to god, but to yourself.
If you think it's right then carry on.
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Twelvepole
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posted on June 29, 2003 09:04:12 AM new
Do they cheer you on each time you post?
Yes they sure do, because they know I am not part of the ignorant crowd... 
Oh and if they are only imaginary, why do feel the need to keep justifying yourself?
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
[ edited by Twelvepole on Jun 29, 2003 09:09 AM ]
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davebraun
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posted on June 29, 2003 09:19:26 AM new
"Or else he never got over it when Muffy dumped him for the captain of the football team."
Me thinks Muffy went for one of the other cheer leaders.
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kiara
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posted on June 29, 2003 09:34:23 AM new
I'm not attacking anyone here, least of all twelvepole.
And I admit I have little voices in my head that make me say certain things here and post certain pics. Sometimes when I sit here singing I can hear the backup singers in my head wailing away too. I don't consider it a problem.
Back to the subject, I don't believe all gays are born that way. I think some get their identities mixed up along the way.
I may get blasted for saying this but some mothers raise their sons without male influence and try to turn them into girls. Notice I say "some". When these boys hit puberty I really believe that some of them are confused.
I think some lonely, overweight and unattractive females turn to each other for love because they are rejected by men. I think some women are abused terribly by men and turn to each other for love.
Then there are the ones that are not born gay and suddenly they are gay and then they're not again. Like Anne Heche? Some it may just be a cool lifestyle for awhile.
Then some are just born that way. I don't care what people do as long as it doesn't hurt me.
I agree the government has no business in people's bedrooms.
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CBlev65252
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posted on June 29, 2003 09:41:37 AM new
may get blasted for saying this but some mothers raise their sons without male influence and try to turn them into girls
You won't get blasted from me. I can give you examples of that happening. Most mothers do not do it intentionally. Speaking as a mother, you need at least one child you can smother. (smile) I was fortunate that my son had male influences all over the place. I have five brothers, he had his father until age 13 and now at 19, he has my significant other. Plus, I had a girl already. Not all mama's boys are gay, though. I know a couple of men that are more on the feminine side than the masculine side and they're straight.
Cheryl
My religion is simple, my religion is kindness.
--Dalai Llama
[ edited by CBlev65252 on Jun 29, 2003 10:11 AM ]
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kiara
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posted on June 29, 2003 10:49:28 AM new
I understand what you're saying, Cheryl. One guy I know is a huge Mama's Boy and he is not gay at all. Elvis was a Mama's Boy. I have also known men that are more feminine and aren't gay. Not all masculine women are gay either.
But I do know several boys in my own city that were normal, raunchy little boys until their Dads walked out on them. Over the years the mothers dressed them in baby animal t-shirts, etc instead of the cool designs the other boys picked out for themselves. They weren't allowed to play sports in case they hurt themselves.
The mothers influenced their jewelry choices when they hit puberty. If the kid wanted a dragon or eagle necklace they were talked out of it. Now they have gained weight just like their mothers and look and act just like them and are very effeminate.
They come in to buy jewelry and beads and it's all the floral ones and the mothers are always there, very domineering. These are two unrelated families. Are the boys gay? They are about 15 and to me they look and act totally gay now and they don't have friends that they are seen with, always with their Mamas. I blame the mothers and the fact that there is no male influence.
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kiara
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posted on June 29, 2003 11:02:58 AM new
And to take this one step further, years ago I was on some chat board and there was a discussion about an ebay seller who had made a small fortune sewing baby clothes for adult men until others started sewing them also and it reduced her market.
She said that some of these men still lived with their mothers and the mothers dressed them that way and the men had never left home and that the mothers were the buyers. Others agreed with her.
These men are probably not gay but isn't/wasn't that child abuse even if the guys are in their 20's or 30's or 40's now? What happens to them after their mothers pass away?
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Twelvepole
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posted on June 29, 2003 11:25:23 AM new
may get blasted for saying this but some mothers raise their sons without male influence and try to turn them into girls. Notice I say "some". When these boys hit puberty I really believe that some of them are confused.
BINGO!
Yes, that is a problem for young males and most of the young gays I have met come from this exact situation.
Cheryl, that is also true... Just look at Christopher Lowell... not gay at all...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
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Helenjw
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posted on June 29, 2003 11:36:52 AM new
I don't believe that people who are gay would classify themselves as confused. In saying this you may be buying into Twelvepole's argument...that there is something deviant or wrong about their sexual preference.
Also, "blaming" anyone for their preference would be incorrect.
Helen
[ edited by Helenjw on Jun 29, 2003 11:48 AM ]
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kraftdinner
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posted on June 29, 2003 12:14:34 PM new
I don't think anybody fully understands what makes people gay, but really, who cares? Only non-gay, mostly religious people spend their time worrying about it and trying to 'fix' them.
ebayauctionguy, you are choosing to feel that way about another human being. "There, but for the grace of God" comes to mind. If you were afflicted with a mental disorder, would you like to be shunned and misunderstood simply because others felt your behaviour was unacceptable? Are you only tolerant of normal people? Doing your best to give out unconditional love assures you that you'll get it back tenfold, but maybe you're just not there yet.
"There has to be another "voice" posting to let all the lurkers out there that not everyone is in favor of such deviant behavior...."
Twelve, when you associated homosexuality to necrophilia, I think you lost your lurking audience.
Kiara (thank-you), I get my tolerance from my communistic lifestyle... so does Cheryl!
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CBlev65252
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posted on June 29, 2003 12:45:40 PM new
kraftdinner
Glad I could do my part!
Cheryl
My religion is simple, my religion is kindness.
--Dalai Llama
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Twelvepole
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posted on June 29, 2003 01:06:55 PM new
I doubt that Kraft... it is all deviant behavior, to say one is different from another is speaking in error...
If you won't tolerate one, why do you tolerate the other?
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
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trai
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posted on June 29, 2003 01:36:59 PM new
I agree with kiara and twelvepole that some mothers raise their sons to be girls, I have seen it happen. And then they are very confused with no males around to balance them.
Helen, no I don't think it's an issue of buying into twelvepole's argument. However, I am not convinced that most gays are born that way though I feel there can be a genetic defect somewhere along the line. A lot of it I blame on society as a whole as we turn everything that was once not normal into normal.
What I find sad is that now it's almost like something that is revered. They call it an alternate lifestyle but I feel it's society self-destructing.
Do you ever wonder why now there are so many gays? Is this all birth defects? No, far from it. I think it's a lot from society now saying everything is okay no matter what.
So, what's next?
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