I do not think it's just that they are out of the closet, there are just way too many for that.
I think a lot of them were already out as it was too hard for most of them to hide it and now it seems like half the world is gay.
Now I realize that it may be just an illusion but it seems like that every time I turn on the TV I see them with their parades and marches and the politicians encourage it when they're sucking for votes.
No matter how I view it I see it as the end of society in the long run. But that's just my humble opinion.
posted on June 29, 2003 02:04:51 PM new
Twelve, you grouped all these so-called deviant behaviors in together implying one leads to the other or that they were all linked somehow. I'd like to see statistics proving that.
Trai, how does a person's sexuality affect your life?
posted on June 29, 2003 02:15:42 PM newTrai, how does a person's sexuality affect your life?
It does when it affects society in the long run. Example is the high cost of medical to treat people with Aids and the extreme spread of such diseases. This costs everyone.
Notice I did not say hang them all at high noon, I just feel that if this is a genetic defect the money would be well spent to find a way to avoid it.
Now I understand that this may come at a high cost to the ladies as where else will they get their hairdressers and decorators but it's a burden one must bear.
posted on June 29, 2003 02:27:15 PM new
Kraft, they are ALL deviant behaviors and linked by that way... no they usually do not lead to each other, but one is just as deviant as the other...
You do realize don't you that heterosexual women are the fastest rising group with HIV/AIDS? AIDS is not a "gay" disease. It's everyone's disease. If it had been looked at that way in the 1980's it wouldn't be the epidemic it is today. My brother was not gay, he was not an intervenous drug user. He died from AIDS. It would have made it's way here sooner or later just like SARS or the West Nile Virus. Hookers spread more diseases than gays do. So do mis- or ill-informed teenagers. Or drug users, or. . . . You get the picture.
I know it seems there are more gays now than ever before, but as Helen said (in essence) they are more vocal and visible now. While I don't think they should be having parades and such all the time, I think they share the same rights as the rest of us. What bothers me about all the parades is that it flaunts their sexuality. Should we flaunt ours in public, we are pointed at and considered "loose". Remember PDA and the old school rule about it?
Cheryl
My religion is simple, my religion is kindness.
--Dalai Llama
posted on June 29, 2003 02:40:14 PM new
Twelve, I agree with you that pedophilia and necrophilia are deviant behaviours, but obviously don't think homosexuals fit into this category. I also don't think homosexuality leads to pedophilia, necrophilia or child porn any more than heterosexuality does. If statistics prove me wrong, I'll accept that.
Trai, so what you're saying is a person's sexuality doesn't affect your life but affects society because you also see it as deviant?
I did say it affected my life as I have to pay part of the medical bills and it is my tax money.
What is this fixation you have with deviant. Go back and read what I said.
But I will repeat it again for you here. If this is something caused by a genetic flaw in the DNA makeup then I feel that this is something that can be medically fixed one day.
I view AIDS the same as cancer or any other disease that affects society. How did AIDS spread from the gay populace into the rest of society? Obviously because these were people that were bisexual or undercover gays that spread it to their female partners or if they were drug users.
Again this is just my humble opinion. Maybe I'm just old fashioned but males and females were created to be together.
posted on June 29, 2003 03:12:05 PM new
Trai, I'm just wondering if you feel the same way as Twelve. I'm trying to figure out if you two are going by what the Bible tells you or if this is your gut instinct (that homosexuals are deviant - Twelve's use of the word btw).
"No AIDS came from some queer African doing a Monkey and spread it to other queers... So you see Beastiality and Homosexuality are related... so endth the lesson for today..."
Maybe I'm wrong Twelve, but stating that a homosexual did a monkey (you are sooo out of it) makes me think my "lead to" way of phrasing things was fine.
posted on June 29, 2003 03:40:37 PM new
The Voodoo science theory that the HIV virus was spread to the general population from a "Gay" population is incorrect. Where science believes the disease to have originated (Africa) it is primarily a heterosexual disease. For a brief period of time epidemiologists thought it to be primarily in the gay community but that proved not to be the case. It is spread through the blood supply although currently screening is greatly improved, medical procedures, IV drug use, as a STD and a small number of cases cannot be attributed to any high risk group or behavior. This is not a gay or heterosexual disease exclusively.
posted on June 29, 2003 06:01:09 PM new
Helen, you're still one of my favorite posters whether I always agree with your views or not. How can I ever forget it was you that told me I could google an abbreviation that Jack and trai were using?
I don't believe that people who are gay would classify themselves as confused.
Some gay men have admitted that they were confused about their sexuality and some have said they didn't even fully realize they were gay until they were married to a woman. Maybe they aren't telling the truth, who knows.
I'm not blaming the gay person for being gay. I blame the fathers that walked out on the mothers in the incidents I related. But maybe the boys weren't even their biological offspring. I blame the mothers for not encouraging their sons to participate in activities with other boys to get the male bonding that every child should have.
I think I know what trai means about the decay of society. I see more and more gays openly groping and kissing in public and I think it's disgusting but then I never approved of any couple that groped in public. They openly grope in the gay parades and what message does that send to little children who view it with their parents? That this is the norm?
We live in a society of instant gratification and the message is becoming that if it feels good, do it. And it doesn't matter who or what you do it with.
Now as far as deviant, I try not to let my mind go there. Don't some guys in prison do the same thing and they're not gay? I don't judge what people do behind closed doors.
posted on June 29, 2003 06:06:40 PM new
I agree. I think its inapropriate for straight and gay people to mak out in public unless it is a place where that is excepted. Spring Break,concerts,etc..
posted on June 29, 2003 06:25:29 PM new
I agree with you Kiara, and I'm happy to see that you included fathers along with mothers as possible contributors to what some of us may view as abnormal behavior.
Like you, I don't think that it's appropriate to "grope and kiss in public". Otherwise, I don't care what kind of sexual orientation anyone has. I strongly believe that gays should have the same rights as heterosexual people.
Although there is some debate about cause, most psychiatrists are in agreement that there is no cure. From google... The American Psychological Association...
Is sexual orientation a choice?
No.
Sexual orientation emerges for most people in early adolescence
without any prior sexual experience. And some people report trying
very hard over many years to change their sexual orientation from
homosexual to heterosexual with no success. For these reasons,
psychologists do not consider sexual orientation for most people to be
a conscious choice that can be voluntarily changed.
posted on June 29, 2003 06:45:25 PM newDo you ever wonder why now there are so many gays?
Are there "so many" now? Or is it just that fewer are in hiding, fearing for their reputations and jobs..living their entire lives as lies. Nobody can say for sure that there are more gay people now than in the past, because in the past, it was personally dangerous to admit to it.
sorry helen, I missed your similar post, but it looks to me like it bears repeating.
___________________________________
What luck for the leaders that men do not think. - Adolph Hitler
[ edited by profe51 on Jun 29, 2003 06:47 PM ]
posted on June 29, 2003 07:43:09 PM new
In this instance I take that as a compliment there Clarksville
Of course if you yourself is of that deviant behavior of Homosexuality... then I can understand your support for such a preposterous idea of "gay marriage"
posted on June 29, 2003 07:50:41 PM newThe most common belief of human sexuality researchers is that homosexual orientation is caused by a pre-existent genetic makeup which is established at conception. This is then triggered early in life by an unknown factor in the environment. If the factor is not present, the gene or genes causing homosexuality will not be triggered, and the person will grow up heterosexual.
There are a number of estimates as to the percentage that gay people make up in society. These range from as low as two percent to as high as ten percent. Studies done among school students have consistently placed the number at about eight to nine percent.
posted on June 29, 2003 07:56:17 PM newFrist Endorses Idea of Gay Marriage Ban
By WILLIAM C. MANN, Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON - The Senate majority leader said Sunday he supported a proposed constitutional amendment to ban homosexual marriage in the United States.
Sen. Bill Frist (news, bio, voting record), R-Tenn., said the Supreme Court's decision last week on gay sex threatens to make the American home a place where criminality is condoned.
The court on Thursday threw out a Texas law that prohibited acts of sodomy between homosexuals in a private home, saying that such a prohibition violates the defendants' privacy rights under the Constitution. The ruling invalidated the Texas law and similar statutes in 12 other states.
"I have this fear that this zone of privacy that we all want protected in our own homes is gradually or I'm concerned about the potential for it gradually being encroached upon, where criminal activity within the home would in some way be condoned," Frist told ABC's "This Week."
"And I'm thinking of whether it's prostitution or illegal commercial drug activity in the home ... to have the courts come in, in this zone of privacy, and begin to define it gives me some concern."
Asked whether he supported an amendment that would ban any marriage in the United States except a union of a man and a woman, Frist said: "I absolutely do, of course I do.
"I very much feel that marriage is a sacrament, and that sacrament should extend and can extend to that legal entity of a union between what is traditionally in our Western values has been defined as between a man and a woman. So I would support the amendment."
Same-sex marriages are legal in Belgium and the Netherlands. Canada's Liberal government announced two weeks ago that it would enact similar legislation soon.
Rep. Marilyn Musgrave, R-Colo., was the main sponsor of the proposal offered May 21 to amend the Constitution. It was referred to the House Judiciary subcommittee on the Constitution on Wednesday, the day before the high court ruled.
As drafted, the proposal says:
"Marriage in the United States shall consist only of the union of a man and a woman. Neither this Constitution nor the constitution of any state under state or federal law shall be construed to require that marital status or the legal incidents thereof be conferred upon unmarried couples or groups."
To be added to the Constitution, the proposal must be approved by two-thirds of the House and the Senate and ratified by three-fourths of the states.
Frist said Sunday he respects the Supreme Court decision but feels the justices overstepped their bounds.
"Generally, I think matters such as sodomy should be addressed by the state legislatures," Frist said. "That's where those decisions with the local norms, the local mores are being able to have their input in reflected.
"And that's where it should be decided, and not in the courts."
Ahhh a breathe of fresh air in this climate of stench...
posted on June 29, 2003 08:32:48 PM new
twelvepole first of all:
Secondly, back when the south was heavily into suppressing the blacks, one of the tactics the white people in "power" would use toward white people who sympathsized with the black, would call them "nXXX lover."
In current times, it has been common for anti-gay people to use the tactic of accusing heterosexuals of being homosexuals in order to make them back off from supporting homosexuals.
It has worked, but nowadays heterosexuals are getting to be more secure in who they are so they remain standing with homosexuals for equality.
It is fairly common for anti-gays to beat up or kill heterosexuals who are mistaken to be homosexual. Particularly heterosexuals who are walking in a homosexual community or in the area of hang outs for homosexuals.
Actually, I was thinking the same with you. Usually, the one who is more vocal and anti-gay is the one who is not comfortable with their sexuality.
posted on June 29, 2003 09:03:48 PM newGenerally, I think matters such as sodomy should be addressed by the state legislatures,"Frist said."That's where those decisions・with the local norms, the local mores are being able to have their input in reflected.And that's where it should be decided, and not in the courts.
local norms.... and yet he supports a constitutional amendment defining marriage......is it just me or does this make just a little bit less than complete sense?
___________________________________
What luck for the leaders that men do not think. - Adolph Hitler
posted on June 29, 2003 09:18:37 PM new
There are both genetic, enviornmental and cultural factors at play. What is considered deviant behavior in one society may not be in another. Homosexual behavior can be observed in most cultures, as well as animal societies.
Gays are here they are not going to go away nor should they.
They work in the schools, hospitals, public service, the supermarket and can be found throughout our society.
Speaking for myself I don't need to understand what makes anyone what they are, I have no problem with it. In my world I treat everyone with the usual amount of suspicion no more no less.
Since this thread began no one has said a thing about illegal aliens and the threat they pose to society. I suppose if Gay Marriage were recognized gay illegal aliens would make a bee line for the states. Notify the border patrol, call out the National Guard...Warning,Warning.
posted on June 29, 2003 09:31:09 PM new
Yeah prof... that Frist is a real smart cookie.
Also notice davebraun, that the homo-haters can never come up with a good reason to justify their hatred, except to say Jesus, God or whoever, says it's wrong. How lame can you get?
posted on June 29, 2003 10:34:50 PM new
davebraun, well said.
I don't need to understand it either and until focusing on it today I never gave it much thought. Gays have been my neighbors in the past and may be again some day. They have always been my customers.
If gay marriages were allowed tomorrow I doubt it would affect my life.
If statistics are correct, there is a chance that twelvepole has purchased some of his items from gays on ebay.
posted on June 30, 2003 04:00:30 AM newThe court on Thursday threw out a Texas law that prohibited acts of sodomy between homosexuals in a private home, saying that such a prohibition violates the defendants' privacy rights under the Constitution. The ruling invalidated the Texas law and similar statutes in 12 other states.
Hate to burst any of your bubbles, twelve, but more than gays practice sodomy. Even some married people do.
Cheryl
My religion is simple, my religion is kindness.
--Dalai Llama
posted on June 30, 2003 05:07:46 AM new
You are quite possibly correct Kiara.... but as it was "Don't know" then it doesn't matter...
One thing the more thick headed among you are missing is that in this world of "tolerance" it is not acceptance.
I said earlier on I can tolerate gays but will never accept them... "Don't ask, Don't tell" is my motto... if I don't know it won't bother me...
Believe me, if there was an item on eBay I had been looking for a long long time and it was up fo sale by a seller who touted his/her deviance... I would not bid.
Clarksville you are correct there have been those that hide behind "anti-gay" who were themselves gay... I am not one of those...I am quite secure in my Heterosexuality.
We shall see... if the admendment passes that will send out a good signal... I can think of only a few States that do not have laws that do not recognize gay marriages...
posted on June 30, 2003 08:40:01 AM new
I have asked before but nobody answered,
Is it true that oral sex is prohibited in some states???
[ edited by austbounty on Jun 30, 2003 08:42 AM ]
posted on June 30, 2003 08:54:40 AM newUsually, the one who is more vocal and anti-gay is the one who is not comfortable with their sexuality.
I think there are some macho type men that are anti-gay, only because they are from the old school of thought. They probably don't understand the issues and perhaps believe all gay people choose to be that way so I don't think it's because they are uncomfortable with their own sexuality.
It's a religious issue with others and they have every right to believe what they wish to.
