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 Helenjw
 
posted on July 11, 2003 09:07:08 AM new
There seems to be an awful lot of very lonely leftist on this board.

Amen,
Reverend Colin



Intelligence is apparently not a popular condition on this board.



Helen





[ edited by Helenjw on Jul 11, 2003 09:09 AM ]
 
 mlecher
 
posted on July 11, 2003 09:18:53 AM new
There seems to be an awful lot of very lonely leftist on this board.


Awful Lot=quite a few
Leftist=people who agree with each other

And we are gather together on this interacting with each other....

?LONELY?

Do you realize how STUPID that statement is? Does your impeccable ignorance know no bounds? Just because YOUR heroes are going to prison where they belong doesn't make us lonely. It makes us jump for joy that WE have pulled your a$$ out of the Nazi fires AGAIN and protected all of our rights and freedoms.
[ edited by mlecher on Jul 11, 2003 09:19 AM ]
 
 bigcitycollectables
 
posted on July 11, 2003 09:26:58 AM new


 
 austbounty
 
posted on July 11, 2003 09:41:24 AM new
Bush a traitor?
More importantly, he has betrayed humanity.


 
 austbounty
 
posted on July 11, 2003 09:50:56 AM new


 
 skylite
 
posted on July 12, 2003 02:24:37 PM new
this is for Bear1949 and for Twelvepole, the 2 so called veterans, which they claim, yea right, this is for you 2 a##holes, this is what a true and honourable veteran is all about, to see the lies from his so called commander and chief



There Is Nothing More Important Than Honor
By Jim Cava
t r u t h o u t | Perspective

Saturday 12 July 2003

The day was November 20, 1968 - OPERATION MEADE RIVER, South Viet Nam. In our military briefing the night before, we were told to expect a significant encounter with the enemy. In the early morning darkness my fellow Marines and I grimly boarded our transport choppers and before long each chopper lifted off one by one en route to the LZ (landing zone). To this day the last thing I can remember before getting shot down by the enemy was the loud roar of the chopper engines with the unmistakable sound of the chopper blades whirling round and round, the paradoxical scenic beauty of the peaceful countryside below, and my rosary in hand as I prayed.

As we approached the LZ the enemy opened fire. My chopper was the first to be hit. The pilot and co-pilot were killed instantly and the huge CH-46 went down, tumbled three times and exploded into a ball of fire. In a violently forceful instant, my life was transformed into a state of non-existence. Unconscious, I was pulled to safety from the burning chopper by a brave fellow Marine, and for hours I laid helpless in a rice paddy before a Medevac was able to assist and rescue. I was flown directly to U.S. Naval Support Activity (NSA), Da Nang for emergency medical treatment. The heartfelt gratitude and admiration that I hold for the skilled professionals of our Medical Service Corps in preserving my life remains everlasting.

Several days later I was flown to U.S. Naval Hospital, Guam, where I awoke from my comatose state. As I opened my eyes, my existing thought was one of thanksgiving; I was ALIVE. Insistently, I asked questions in a dire attempt to find out the status of my men, and what had actually happened to me. No one really knew. How could they? We came from two different worlds. Painstakingly I tried, but was never able to find out exactly what happened. What I did find out was that my left arm was severed above the elbow, my legs were crushed below the knees, my back was fractured in three places, I had received multiple scars, and I had contracted a staph infection that was causing hideous pustules to break out all over my body.

I was cut down without reprisal and it infuriated me to no end. The most significant undertaking of my life had been cut short and taken away from me. My job, one that meant more to me than anything, was now over. Realizing this, and that there was nothing I could do to alter the aimless course of the war evoked deep feelings of anger, frustration, and depression within me. I was overwhelmed with thoughts of Vietnam and how much I wanted to go back. I felt so damn distressfully helpless and useless. Yet as I thought of the immense human sacrifice given in suffering and in death by brave American men and women, in upholding and defending the principles for which we stand, I was filled with a profound sense of pride and consolation. I served my country with honor and my reward was immensely gratifying. I was now among that elite and distinguished group of patriotic Americans who served their country with honor.

It was that distinction of serving with honor that gave me a source of inner strength to deal with the anguish and pain, then and always, because honor is what it's all about. There is nothing more important than honor - It is everything. Adversely, I thought of the deplorable lack of honor on the part of our governmental and military leaders in successfully and expeditiously ending the war. A true miscarriage of trust was being perpetrated by the very American leadership I trusted in. My beloved and virtuous country was being disgraced and humiliated by a disloyal, dishonorable, self-serving, self-important and self-righteous group of power brokers and I was filled with a profound sense of disillusionment and betrayal - indignation and conflict. My country nor I would never be the same.

A week later, I was flown to Walson Army Hospital, Fort Dix, New Jersey. It was here that I received a most welcomed and compassionate visit from my father, mother and sister. I was transported to U.S. Naval Hospital, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania where I spent four months recuperating, and proficiently well trained in the use of an artificial arm. Finally, I was transferred to Veterans Hospital, East Orange, New Jersey where I spent two long depressing months and where I came close to a nervous breakdown but for the grace of God, I maintained and carried on.

Back in Nam, my friend and fellow Marine, Denny Leary, had yet to finish his tour of duty. In the meantime, Denny had written home to his family in Collingswood, New Jersey and told them about me. Thoughtfully, he asked them to visit me at the naval hospital in Philadelphia and to give me the royal treatment. I will never be able to express in words how thankful I am for their kindness and generosity. I did not know Denny before Nam but here we were thousands of miles from home, brought together by chance serving our country in what we thought was a justified war. Only to discover that it was one of deceit and dishonesty from the very start.

"The Incident" that brought America into the self-destructive and regrettable Vietnam War was a pretext. In August of 1964 the American people and Congress were led to believe that two U.S. destroyers, Maddox and Turner Joy, without provocation, were deliberately and aggressively attacked by North Vietnamese torpedo boats in the Gulf of Tonkin. This occurrence was a complete fabrication orchestrated by the egomaniacal President Johnson and his inner circle of collaborators to achieve their ultimate political ambition: Wage War.

And thus the stage of a dishonorable leadership was set. And honorable America and her honorable soldiers were forced into a war that should have never been. Although it was for just a brief moment in our lives, Denny and I developed a friendship. And it was something truly special and much appreciated, having to put our lives on the line in a war with no clear cut nor resolute direction. It was a good and reassuring feeling to know I had a friend and fellow patriot in this foreign land, in this ill-conceived and outrageous war, that I could believe and trust in. Our brotherhood brought a sense of stability to a no other than unstable situation. I would, and only could pray for his safe return.

But again, fate would not comply. It was April 27, 1969. I was at the Veterans Hospital when I received the shocking and distressing news. Denny had been killed. My good friend was dead. His precious life, one more precious life - wasted. I was numb. I felt as if life itself had been drained from me. I thought of the possibility that I could have saved Denny's life. I was so damn helpless. There were so many, too many good Americans suffering and dying. There were so many, too many loving American hearts broken and wrenched with pain. When will it/Will it ever end?

Again - A fabrication orchestrated by the egomaniacal President and his inner circle of collaborators to achieve their political ambition: Wage War.

Again - A deplorable lack of honor on the part of our governmental leaders.

Again - The stage of a dishonorable leadership is set.

Again - A miscarriage of trust perpetrated by the very American leadership we trust in.

Again - Honorable America and her Honorable Soldiers are forced into a war that should have never been.

Again - The suffering and death of our Honorable and Brave Patriotic Americans is looked upon as expedient and expendable in the eyes of the incompetent and morally deficient powermongers in control.

Again - Our beloved and virtuous country disgraced and humiliated by a disloyal, dishonorable, self-serving, self-important and self-righteous group of power brokers.

Again - Our great American heritage has been desecrated.

Again - Our American Spirit has been devitalized and demoralized.

Again - Amid the leadership of our great country, there's not one American with the strength of character to stand up, formidably and uncompromisingly, in defense of America's honor and demand an end be put to the sacrificial human offerings of so many good Americans.

Again - What we thought was a justified war was one of deceit and dishonesty from the very start.

Again - Lies, lies, lies.

Again - The purest and truest paradox: America is honorable but America's leadership is not.

Again - I am filled with a profound sense of disillusionment and betrayal, despair and degradation, indignation and conflict, infuriation and abhorrence. When will it end/Will it ever end?

-------

Jim Cava, retired Petty Officer of the United States Navy, is a Vietnam Veteran. He can be reached at [email protected]

 
 ebayauctionguy
 
posted on July 12, 2003 02:50:38 PM new

There seems to be an awful lot of very lonely leftists on this board.

LOL! They need to get a life and that's pretty bad coming from me!




 
 Helenjw
 
posted on July 12, 2003 03:14:21 PM new

Yes, that is "pot - kettle - black" advice, ebayauctionguy. Good to know that you have time to read here.

"Colon" just likes to fling insults.



Helen

 
 ebayauctionguy
 
posted on July 12, 2003 03:52:10 PM new

Actually, I usually don't read a post that is much longer than a paragraph or two.
 
 Helenjw
 
posted on July 12, 2003 04:03:07 PM new

That's a good point, ebayauctionguy. I usually try to limit my posts to a couple of paragraphs with a link because as you suggest, very long, unbroken posts are not likely to be read.

Helen

 
 davebraun
 
posted on July 12, 2003 04:29:35 PM new
Not everyone does.

 
 Helenjw
 
posted on July 14, 2003 05:49:05 AM new


Rumsfeld says "We're going to have to expect this to go on"

WASHINGTON, July 13 — Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said today that the United States might need to send additional troops to Iraq to quell an increasingly well-organized guerrilla resistance, and warned that more American soldiers would die in attacks this summer.



[ edited by Helenjw on Jul 14, 2003 05:51 AM ]
 
 Twelvepole
 
posted on July 14, 2003 06:01:24 AM new
This is the cost of freedom people...

Oh wait it is not a government handout...




AIN'T LIFE GRAND... [ edited by Twelvepole on Jul 14, 2003 06:03 AM ]
 
 Helenjw
 
posted on July 14, 2003 06:08:24 AM new

Leave aside the growing doubts and dissent about Iraq, the explosive problem facing Bush is how to manage the emotional distress of his bellicose supporters. The White House propaganda performed brilliantly during the run-up to war, producing varying rationales for invasion that floated past us like soap bubbles ... [more ...]


Twelve...This emotion sounds familiar...(a Phd. in history)


"We need a tough-minded Patton or MacArthur in full dress uniform...Follow the Roman rule: haul those people off in slavery and burn down the country...For every ten Americans slaughtered, burn down whole villages."


If one believed in those claims three or four months ago, it is not unreasonable to feel cheated by events (only Saddam the beast has been confirmed). Yet, for many Americans, it is easier emotionally to blame the liberated and ungrateful Iraqis than to confront the deceitful propagandists in official Washington. This unstable emotional brew is what Bush and his political lieutenants now have to manage and very carefully if they wish to avoid getting pulled deeper into the mire. The president's taunting bravado -- "bring 'em on" -- may or may not frighten the jihad irregulars in Iraq but it definitely pumps up yearnings for retribution back home.

 
 Twelvepole
 
posted on July 14, 2003 06:51:14 AM new
Last time I looked, it wasn't somone in Washington killing those soldiers in Iraq...

We did the right thing and no peacnik is ever going to make me change my mind on that... some of us were there before and know what needed to be done.

I don't care if Bush "lied" or not, the ends justified the means... at least it wasn't getting a BJ in the white house



Talk about liars, real confirmed liars...


Only traitors I see are the negative peaceniks posting on this thread...





AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
 
 austbounty
 
posted on July 14, 2003 07:43:55 AM new
I don't care if Bush "lied" or not, the ends justified the means... at least it wasn't getting a BJ in the white house

12, if it was to get blown or even cop a little meat, most sensible people wouldn’t care so much as a rat’s ass, compared to what Bush has brought on.

You may well say that the ‘ends’ justify.
But don’t loose track of the fact that we have not been able to get a truthful answer as to what that dam ‘ends’ my be.
It was’nt to get rid of WOMD! Finally you are starting to agree.
It wasn’t to get rid of those responsible for 9/11.
It wasn’t to go in get rid of an oppressive regime and get out.

IT WAS THE OIL 12.
When will YOU be honest enough to admit that.

Funny,… just tonight I saw ptII of a mini series about Adolph Hitler,
In order to justify and bring on a military state, he had the Richestadt (spelling?) Building put on fire by some of his cronies and blamed the communists.
For ‘national security’ he repealed certain rights of ‘freedom of speech’, ‘association’ ‘mail and telephone privacy’, all so he could achieve His ‘ENDS’ which was the extermination of all Jews in Germany.

Well it certainly appears at this stage that Bush’s ‘ENDS’ is Black Gold!.
Yes 12; Im sure he does think that the ends justified the means.

Are you under the illusion that this ‘Ends’ will come your way.
You are a grunt remember!!
(no disrespect to soldiers intended)
But we all know that yours is not to question why, yours is but to do or die.
That’s all a soldier is to him 12, collateral.
Black gold for him and his, paid for with your blood and those around you, civilians included.
Reverend colin thinks the oil will come to him, I’m surprised that people who are really not likely to benefit & are reasonably smart are so blind as to not see the truth.

You find it so easy to call so many Americans traitors and yet Bush’s blatant cheating and disregard of the American Democratic election system was so obvious that even a kindergarten kid can now see it.

You can just keep on supporting him 12, regardless; in spite of what his ‘final solution’ may be.
Yep 12; that’s got to be real patriotism.
s t a n d b y y o u r m a n . . . s h o w h i m y o u l o v e h i i i m even though he’s just a traitor.

[ edited by austbounty on Jul 14, 2003 07:53 AM ]
 
 skylite
 
posted on July 14, 2003 08:13:00 AM new
twelve, can not see beyond his deflated member, needs violence to jack it up, arm chair moron, the type that will screw you in a blink of an eye.
These type are a cancer, they use everyone around them to make their profit, and when the mess is made, people like twelve disappear, and who gets stuck with cleaning it up ?
They talk tough,and act loyal to their country, but are cowards with no honour,and would switch sides in a blink of an eye, just to save their skinny, scrawny necks, All talk, so twelve, when are you going over to Iraq, because I know guys like you are needed over there, and bring back the true soldiers home.
Why is it that cowards demand everyone should fight their battles ?
Ever see a coward fight his or her's own battle, I haven't have you ?

 
 austbounty
 
posted on July 14, 2003 09:53:28 AM new
In defence of 12 and possibly even bear, I don't think they are being cowards or wanting to be unpatriotic.
Just like the majority of people in pre-war Germany, that were led into a frenzy with no real belief or knowledge of the secret 'final solution'.

e.a.g. I'm not so sure about, he is obviously, or thinks that he is, one of the powers that be, because his ebay sales are used as an economic indicator by Alan Greenspan ROFLMAO.

(remember as long as your mum and 3yo daughter think you are just the best then technically you are revered)
BUT Reverend Colin just wants the whole world to be slaves because they aren’t American (or are single mothers etc..etc…).
Poor fool thinks it will be a great world to live in when everyone else is dead.
Colin, did you vote for the “Good’Ol United American Clean Descent White Folk Party” in the last elections????
Or the Speak English or Die Party
Or the Kill All Muslims Party
Or the Defend Defence Spending Against a Hypothetical Enemy & Call all Opposition Traitors And Communists Party

Col’ humour is a good human trait, but not when you think the very lives of another nations people are a joke.
Hell,, you even think that about a lot of Americans.
Philanthropist you definitely ain’t.
Didn’t your daddy ever say that dropping bombs on Dresden just might have been wrong.
Judging from your style, I’d guess not.
Patriot doesn’t mean you have a high kill count.
Hitler was a proud soldier too.
But I'm told that all his brothers in arms in WWI thought him a jerk.


 
 Helenjw
 
posted on July 15, 2003 07:51:03 AM new


Analysis: Anatomy of a Quack-Mire

”The thing that needs to be grasped here is that since 1991 these men

have been dreaming up a storm about reconfiguring the Middle East,

while scaling the heavens (via various Star Wars programs for the militarization of space),

and so nailing down an American earth for eternity. Their dreams were utopian and so,

by definition, unrealizable. Theirs were lava dreams, and they were dreamt, like all such

burning dreams, without much reference to the world out there. They were perfect

pickings for a Chalabi.”


”The Army is getting bogged down in a morale-numbing 4th Generation War in Iraq that is now taking on some appearances of the Palestinian Intifada,” according to a comment late last month on an all-military website, while even some conventional media have suggested that Iraq could turn into a U.S. Chechnya.

”Some frustrated troops stationed in Iraq are writing letters to representatives in Congress to request their units be repatriated,” the Christian Science Monitor reported this week. The Monitor quoted from one letter by an Army soldier: ”Most soldiers would empty their bank accounts just for a plane ticket home.” An officer from the same Division: ”Make no mistake, the level of morale for most soldiers that I've seen has hit rock bottom.”





 
 Helenjw
 
posted on July 15, 2003 09:18:33 AM new


Rumsfeld loses it........


STEPHANOPOULOS: Do you expect American troops will have to stay that long in Iraq?


RUMSFELD: I have no idea. You don't listen. I said I don't know the answers to those questions. The president has said we're going to use as many forces as are necessary for as long as it takes because it is an important thing for this country and the coalition. We've got 19 countries working with us. People are running around and saying, "Why don't you ask this country?" or "Why don't you ask that country?" They've asked 70 or 80 or 90 countries. They've asked the -- the NATO countries were asked last year to participate and assist. There is some large faction of them currently assisting in the country. Is it an important thing to be doing? Yes. Is it tough? You bet. Are more people going to be killed? You bet. Does it cost some money? You bet. Can we tell the world or anybody else precisely what it's going to cost or how long it's going to last? No. Would we love to be able to do so? You bet.






 
 Helenjw
 
posted on July 15, 2003 05:53:50 PM new

3rd ID not coming home

Wasn't it only a few days ago that Rumsfeld promised Congress that the 3rd ID would be coming home in September? (July 9, to be exact.)

In testimony before the Senate Armed Services Committee, Rumsfeld said the division's 3rd Brigade has already reached Kuwait and will be heading home this month. The 2nd Brigade will be home in August and the 1st Brigade will return in September, he said. He said each of the final two brigades to leave Iraq will have been in the Gulf region for 10 months by the time they depart.

Boy, like every other promise made by Bush and his cabal, this one did not last long.

In an abrupt about-face, the U.S. military said Monday thousands of troops from the 3rd Infantry Division (Mechanized) would stay in Iraq until further notice instead of returning by September in line with an announcement only last week.

The reversal is actually not surprising, given that India just decided to stay out of Iraq (it had considered sending a full division to Iraq), and the situation on the ground continues to deteriorate.

Another G.I. was killed yesterday, putting the US combat toll at just one below Gulf War I levels. Of course, this article (like many before it) conveniently neglects to count accidental deaths -- an inexplicable omission that undercounts the actual cost of the war. This AP story says 146 US dead. The actual toll is 220.

------kos...cont


[ edited by Helenjw on Jul 15, 2003 05:56 PM ]
 
 mlecher
 
posted on July 15, 2003 05:56:08 PM new
Gee Whiz skylite....

After that little outburst 12-pole must have crawled back under his rock.... You must of hit home.

I have noticed a common thing about these pro-war wackos....they ain't got to put their a$$ in the sling.

12-pole says he doesn't care if Bush lied...from one of his ugly faces and in the same breath with the other ugly face, he disparaged Clinton because....now get this...CLINTON LIED!

12-pole has PROVED beyond any reasonable doubt that he, he himself, is a low-life, two-faced hypocrite with that statement.

Run, 12-pole, run. Bush needs his boots licked shiny. Now go!

 
 Twelvepole
 
posted on July 15, 2003 07:09:17 PM new
I can't hear you any more mlecher, I refuse to stoop down to hear you and your butt buddy skylite...







AIN'T LIFE GRAND... [ edited by Twelvepole on Jul 16, 2003 05:46 AM ]
 
 mlecher
 
posted on July 16, 2003 06:58:05 AM new
Don't worry 12-pole, we can just dismiss anything you say from now on. You have proven yourself to be a liar, a hypocrite and a low-life punk. No one will defend you anymore, you have no honor, nor credibility, no nothing. Your time will be better spent playing tomb raider and drooling over the sexy animated characters rather than pretending you speak for anything but the lowest forms of human life.

 
 skylite
 
posted on July 16, 2003 08:18:24 AM new
Where are Bush's children and his Chickenhawk buddies children,and where are the pro war morons who like this war,are their kids there ?,Why are their children not in Iraq ????? IMPEACH THIS PRESIDENT AND HIS STAFF before they kill off all your kids and there will be only their kids living in wealth and playing tennis.



Baghdad Blogger -- A U.S. Soldier's Internet Diary
Feature, Paul Woodward,
Pacific News Service, Jul 11, 2003

Editor's Note: A U.S. soldier based in one of Saddam's former palaces describes a life of fear, apathy, pride and frustration seldom seen in media reports from Iraq.

"I've been asking random soldiers who the Vice President of the United States is...a very simple question...but I found a surprising answer...the majority of those I asked did not know the answer, nor do they care...this is bad...our lives are at stake...our country as well...and we do not even pay attention...we have a voice...but we do not choose to use it..."

Sgt. Sean, an American serviceman now based in Baghdad, has been keeping his Internet journal, Turningtables (http://turningtables.blogspot.com/), since early June. He has six years of military service under his belt, including stints in Bosnia and Afghanistan.

"we volunteered for this...we sit here because we raised our hand...and sold our souls...most would think that we knew exactly what we were getting into...they would be wrong...we were naive...we were homeless...we were living with our mothers...this is just a job for 75 percent of us..."

Soldiers on active duty are often reluctant to say how they feel. But at a time when U.S. casualties are mounting, the justification for the war is open to question, and "pockets of resistance" are starting to resemble full guerrilla warfare, Turningtables unmasks the fears that can lie hidden behind a soldier's expressionless face.

"it's a sad state that originates when the death of soldiers becomes common everyday news...and it stops being surprising...and shocking...and horrible...when it takes a really gruesome story to remind you that you are in the middle of this #*[email protected] you can't go home...YOU CAN'T GO HOME...you want to curl up and quit..."

Circumstances may have set this soldier on a course he hadn't foreseen, but his appreciation for military life shines through.

"if there is a person who wanders aimlessly through life I would recommend the service to them...and I would even allow my children to join...I would only hope that they remain objective throughout...that they keep a sense of reality and stay aware.

"the military in itself is altruistic...communism...but how else could it possibly operate...selfless service...the good of the whole over the good of the one...the pay...the living conditions...think about it...soldiers are not free to make their own decisions...if they were how could anything difficult be completed...how could a platoon take a machine gun nest...or a war be won..."

His support unit wants to be seen as the toughest in the Army, but he knows that neither inside nor outside the military does any glamour attach to the role of support. Movies don't get made about these troops, though they form the backbone of every army.

Based within the confines of one of Saddam's former palaces, Sgt. Sean is not exposed to the dangers facing those who patrol the streets of Baghdad. The searing summer heat, however, spares no one. Even the ants search for relief.

"...one of the drones discovered the climate-controlled comfort of my canvas house...and they went and told all their little mindless buddies...and every 10 minutes there is a new line of them...I sweep them away...I slap them with my shower shoes...they fall back...they regroup...they send out a new scout team...and then they launch their new offensive..."

Arnold Schwarzenegger may rally the troops in Baghdad and promote his new movie by calling GIs the "true terminators," but the life Sgt. Sean describes gently mocks the icons of warfare that are Hollywood's bread and butter.

"I once read that some people come off as courageous because they are so afraid of being thought a coward...I'm glad that as of yet I haven't had to prove my courage...that would mean somebody was trying to kill me...and right now...I'm content with people shooting off nasty e-mails instead of bullets..."

Military service carries the honor of defending one's nation, even for those who never fire a shot, but all the while soldiers' hopes and dreams for their lives at home lie suspended.

"there are so many difficulties that come with a deployment to the Middle East...a major portion of your life is put on hold for six to nine months, and all the areas that could not possibly pause for your war are forced onto the phone lines..."

Sgt. Sean, like thousands of other American service men and women, now finds himself at the sharp end of a political experiment whose design was always unclear and whose conclusion seems ever more elusive.



 
 Helenjw
 
posted on July 16, 2003 11:14:32 AM new
"The timing of how long
the coalition stays here
is effectively now in the
hands of the Iraqi people.
It's up to them."

Paul Bremmer
Head of the U.S. Occupation Authority in Iraq



It makes you wonder, who is really in charge?

Helen




[ edited by Helenjw on Jul 16, 2003 03:14 PM ]
 
 Helenjw
 
posted on July 16, 2003 03:11:04 PM new

lied to and deceived

The problem is that the soliders seem to have
lost all faith in their leadership. Not just at the
national level, but at the command level as well.
They trust their junior officers, but that's it. They
no longer seem to believe their leaders are honest
nor do they trust them to act in their own best interest.
They don't believe in the mission or the men who ordered
them to carry it out. They are coming to believe that their
only goal is survival.

Soldiers will always complain about conditions, as would
anyone else thrust into the middle of Iraq in summer. But
what seems to be growing, and deeply disturbing, is that
soldiers now seem to have begun to mistrust their leaders.

Something is breaking, at least in the 3ID. A bond of trust
which is essential for any organization to function. These
men and women increasingly expect to be lied to and deceived
by the people they need to trust. Their families are irate at this.

And there is no ready replacement for them.

 
 NativeAmerican
 
posted on July 16, 2003 04:44:57 PM new
Is this How Bush thanks our troops. Quote from Yahoo news.
"Abizaid said troops who criticized Rumsfeld in comments to reporters faced possible "verbal reprimand or something more stringent" from their commanders." It's Time to take back America. Impeach Bush



 
 Helenjw
 
posted on July 16, 2003 10:22:15 PM new

Kennedy says Bush putting troops in peril
July 16, 2003
WASHINGTON -- Senator Edward M. Kennedy said yesterday that US troops in Iraq are ''police officers in a shooting gallery'' and that they are paying the price for the ''ideological pride'' of the Bush administration, which has failed to secure broad international support for rebuilding and stabilizing Iraq.

The Massachusetts Democrat warned that the situation on the ground will only deteriorate if the president doesn't seek help from NATO and the United Nations. ''It was a foregone conclusion that we would win the war,'' said Kennedy. ''But pride goes before a fall, and the all-important question now is whether we can win the peace. In fact, we are at serious risk of losing it.''


 
 skylite
 
posted on July 17, 2003 02:30:35 PM new
I have said this before that the DEPLETED URANIUM WEAPONS used by U.S. forces will result in U.S. troops getting sick and now it's stating to show, plus the U.S. government is trying to stop this info from the American public
Folks, if you got kids heading over there, chances are they will not come back alive and if they do they will be coming back as the living dead before the DEPELTED URANIUM will kill them, not to mention the burden on the medical system.
Please folks spresd the word, write your congress person and senator and ask these questions, start a community IMPEACHMENT CAMPAIGN in your area, and ask how many of the present US administration have their children over in Iraq, but if you don't care about your kids, then send them over to Iraq.




Mysterious Diseases Haunt U.S. Troops In Iraq


NATO experts attribute the mysterious symptoms suffered by U.S. soldiers to the use of depleted uranium

BAGHDAD, July 17 – Several mysterious diseases were reported among a number of American troops within the vicinity of Baghdad airport, a military source closely close to NATO unveiled.

U.S. soldiers deployed around Baghdad airport started showing symptoms of mysterious fever, itching, scars and dark brown spots on the skin, the source, who refused to be named, said in statements published Thursday, July 17, by the Saudi Al-Watan newspaper.

He asserted that three soldiers who suffered these symptoms did not respond to medical treatment in Iraqi hospitals and were flown to Washington for medication.

The military source reported a media blackout by U.S. officials to hide such information from the public.

The Americans claim the symptoms and the mysterious diseases were resulting from exposure to the scourging sun, which the U.S. troops are not used to, he added.

U.S. officials did not come up with an explanation for the symptoms, which NATO experts tend to believe result from direct exposure to powerful nuclear radiations of the sophisticated B-2 bombs used in the war on Iraq, particularly in striking Iraqi Republican Guards forces who deployed to defend the vicinity of Baghdad airport.

The military source stressed that the shrouds of secrecy imposed by American officials on the issue were prompted by fears of creating waves of panic and anger among the troops, particularly after announcements that American troops would remain in Iraq indefinitely.

He asserted that NATO experts measured levels of radioactive pollution in Iraq and confirmed there were levels of radioactive pollution with destructive impacts on man and environment that may lead to risks suffered by generations to come.

On April 25, the British Observer quoted military sources as affirming that depleted uranium shells and bombs used by U.S. and British troops during Iraq invasion were five times more than the number used during 1991 Gulf war.

The Pentagon had admitted shelling Iraq with about 350 tons of depleted uranium in 1991, aggravating cancerous tumors cases among Iraqis.


 
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