I am not advocating the bush administration at all here, but the point was brought up that these are a society of people who have witnessed public executions, wars, etc.
It almost reminds me of the Italian guy who spits at your shoes when he is disgusted with you. Americans dont do that, we think it distasteful and maybe ignorant, but for them...its a very normal and highly expressive display of what they think.
Maybe thats not an equal or good comparision, but if the Iraquies are accustomed to such brutalities...maybe they won't be satisified any other way. (Reports are they arent even convinced with the pictures.)
posted on July 26, 2003 03:34:01 AM new
Showing the Iraquies is all well and good. But, is it necessary to show it to the whole world? I don't think it's necessary unless you are worried about the upcoming elections and need to boost your popularity a bit. JMO. Showing the world the photos just makes us look barbaric. So, now we can add that title to the mess. Instead of this administration looking like liars, they now look like barbaric liars. I just keeps getting better.
Cheryl
Power to the people. Power to the people, right on. - John Lennon
posted on July 26, 2003 08:06:41 AM new
Adnan Abu Odeh, a former advisor to Jordan’s King Hussein and one of the region’s real wise men,
offers this scenario. He suggests the Iraqi people see themselves struggling against two enemies
now: Saddam on the one hand, the American occupiers on the other. “Ironically, if Saddam is killed
as well as his two sons,” says Abu Odeh, “that will accelerate the process of seeing the
Americans as the real enemy.”
posted on July 26, 2003 11:48:31 AM new
About the pictures, I'm on the fence with this one. While I understand the barbaric nature of such photos, I also understand the power and fear Saddam had over his people for a very long time, so in a way, I think the pictures were necessary. Showing them to the world, however, seems more like a publicity stunt for the powerful Bush administration, like in "look everyone, we got something right!".
posted on July 26, 2003 02:48:05 PM new
neroter, you made the following three comments.
"I am not advocating the bush administration at all here, but the point was brought up that these are a society of people who have witnessed public executions, wars, etc."
"It almost reminds me of the Italian guy who spits at your shoes when he is disgusted with you. Americans dont do that, we think it distasteful and maybe ignorant, but for them...its a very normal and highly expressive display of what they think."
"Maybe thats not an equal or good comparision, but if the Iraquies are accustomed to such brutalities...maybe they won't be satisified any other way. (Reports are they arent even convinced with the pictures.) "
posted on July 26, 2003 07:55:22 PM new
The photos were a nice touch, always enjoy seeing scum dead...
Maybe he realizes that he can't steal the election this time and has to go another route.
If the Democrats can't come up with any better candidates than what they have so far... only route President Bush will be taking is back to the White House.
Barbaric... love that word... please tell me what it is like to live in fear of every little thing...
posted on July 26, 2003 08:01:44 PM new
Helen learning that you live in Montgomery County Maryland, it is appalling that your politics run as such... I imagine you are a pariah of the neighborhood.
I have close friends in Frederick, and I can happily say their politics run opposite of yours...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
[ edited by Twelvepole on Jul 26, 2003 08:46 PM ]
posted on July 26, 2003 08:03:58 PM newIf the Democrats can't come up with any better candidates than what they have so far... only route President Bush will be taking is back to the White House.
, twelve!
"Be kind. Remember everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle." - Harry Thompson
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it." - A Few Good Men
posted on July 26, 2003 08:55:50 PM new
Helen,
Thats okay. My point was that if what the Iraquies will only accept them as dead by being offered proof, then I think that was the attempt to convince them whereas to us it is a grostesque display of inhumanity.
posted on July 26, 2003 09:56:52 PM new
The documented death of the Saddam brothers has not slowed attacks against the troops. "Things are worse now"...according to the troops.
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - A grenade attack killed three U.S. soldiers
guarding a children's hospital in Iraq (news - web sites) and an ambush
killed another, in fresh evidence that the deaths of Saddam Hussein's
sons have brought no respite in the guerrilla campaign against American forces
"Things are worse now," said Staff Sergeant Kenneth Maxwell, nervously
fingering the trigger of his machinegun on an armored vehicle in Saddam's
hometown of Tikrit on Saturday.
"They used to just attack us, mostly at night. But now they are attacking us during the day
with AK-47s and RPGs (rocket- propelled grenades), at any American soldiers they can find,"
Maxwell said, eyes alert under the baking sun.
posted on July 27, 2003 06:09:41 AM new
You know Helen, when you post that crap, all I picture is a woman, with a huge smile upon her face because we are losing brave men and women.
Must be nice you having a "Happy Day" whenever you get to post about people, you aren't fit to wipe their a**, are dead.
Keep right on posting... most of us know how you feel about America... and you are making it plain to the lurkers too... ANTI
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
[ edited by Twelvepole on Jul 27, 2003 06:37 AM ]
posted on July 27, 2003 06:39:43 AM new
Ten soldiers have been killed since the Saddam brothers were killed. Now, the Bush administration is under
pressure to demonstrate progress in order to maintain support for the effort which is costing the Pentagon about
4 billion a month.
The Bush administration is calling in James A. Baker III to help.
"A lot of different things are being discussed," a senior administration official said. "Nothing has happened yet."
posted on July 27, 2003 11:41:03 AM new
Geez Twelve - lighten up! You repeatedly call Helen anti-American, yet I haven't seen her print one thing that would make her fit into that category. She doesn't like Bush, she hates war and killing... how can that make her anti-American?
posted on July 27, 2003 12:13:08 PM new
Look at her posts, nothing but Soldiers, AMERICAN soldiers dying... looks to me she seems to ENJOY posting that information
Do you understand the word ENJOY.... quite f'n sickening....
It is quite apparent from the beginning of this that she enjoys posting about AMERICAN solddiers dying.... ENJOYS!
In my book she is about as ANTI-AMERICAN as you can get without actually being in another country...
We have positive things in this country... but I wouldn't expect you to see that either Kraft.
posted on July 27, 2003 12:43:29 PM new
That's a pretty silly analogy Twelve. Telling all the posters here that more and more soldiers are dying daily doesn't mean she enjoys it - where are you getting that from? Helen's whole point is WHY are soldiers continuing to die. If she didn't care Twelve, she's be out on a lounge chair eating bon-bons instead of posting here.
As for the positive things your country offers, I see TONS but I'm also not that blind that I don't see a lot of the good slipping away because the wrong person is in charge.
posted on July 27, 2003 04:06:12 PM new
Kraftdinner,
First, the Bush administration wants to send James Baker to help Bremmer straighten out Iraq.
But seven hours later the story changes. See the two stories here. Excerpts from the original story and the replacement story are below.
First Story...
White House Wants Baker to Head Iraq Reconstruction
Unresolved Whether Baker or Bremer Would Have Final Word
By Mike Allen and Glenn Kessler
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, July 25, 2003; 12:20 PM
The White House hopes to persuade former secretary of state James A. Baker III to take charge of the physical and economic reconstruction of Iraq as part of a broad restructuring of post-war efforts, administration sources said today.
Under the plan, L. Paul Bremer, the chief U.S. administrator in Iraq, would focus on rebuilding the country's political system. The new structure is still in the discussion stages, and a source close to Baker said he has not accepted the job.
The sources said one hurdle is determining whether Baker or Bremer would have the final word, and they said that question is unresolved. The James A. Baker III Institute for Public Policy at Rice University referred questions to Baker's law firm, Baker Botts LLP in Houston. Baker did not immediately return a telephone message seeking comment.
Second, Replacement Story...
Bush Considers New Overhaul of Postwar Iraq Administration
White House Aims to Address Concerns as Cost, Casualties Mount
By Mike Allen and Glenn Kessler
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, July 25, 2003; 7:05 PM
President Bush is contemplating the second overhaul in three months of his post-war administration of Iraq, as the White House faces up to the enormity of the task and the need to demonstrate progress to maintain political support for the effort, administration officials said today.
A series of polls has show U.S. voters becoming increasingly impatient at the prospects of large number of troops remaining in Iraq indefinitely, as the cost rises and guerrilla attacks continue inflicting military casualties long past the fall of Saddam Hussein's government.
"We're confident of long-term success," a Bush aide said. "We need to show short-term success."
posted on July 28, 2003 04:45:19 PM new
Brett Hunt, a 2nd lieutenant with the Army's 11th Signal Brigade and a Globe native, sent this note to his parents a week ago. His unit is north of Baghdad.
Things are fine here. It is soooooooooooo hot and nasty,
but what are you going to do? It is just getting worse every
day. I think I may have lice or fleas or something.
Our living conditions are just so difficult to keep clean and
maintain it all. I washed my one blanket and my cot, but I
do not have any hot water (well the water is hot but you know
what I mean, like hot in a washing machine to kill the buggies
in the clothes stuff). It has not been bad today, but I wake up
with all of these tiny red bites. My hair is long and does not itch,
but I think something is still going on. I am using all of your bug stuff,
but I think they are stronger than what we have in the States. The mosquitoes
laugh at me when I put OFF on. You have to put on the straight DEET
and hope you will not have cancer in a year.
We have been hit 18 of the last 19 days. I feel like I am at Da Nang or Phu Bai
. It just sucks. Luckily, "only" about 45 people have been hurt. Yeah, a lot, but
considering how many they lob in here, that is not too bad. It is wearing on me
along with the constant oppressive heat, no sleep, no food (yeah, they shut off
our food resupply without any warning, things are getting slim, we are fine but
it is not a good feeling to have so little spare food and water) and spending every
night and day now trying to dodge mortars. More than half a month under siege
and luckily we are all still safe.
They have frozen all redeployments, so no one is going anywhere anytime soon,
and our Congress goes on vacation July 25 so nothing is going to happen until mid fall.
Not what we all want to hear out here. We are under siege out here, without supplies,
without a mission and we can only roll the dice so many times and not get our (expletive)
shot. More and more body bags and amputees will be coming home.
Really, though, I am not in bad shape. I escape to my job and my books and it keeps me
sane enough to get by. I will be safe and stay healthy here.
, twelve!