posted on July 30, 2003 07:35:46 PM new
Good for you, fenix! But we aren't discussing our ability to cope with adversity. That's another topic.
Some legislation has been introduced in an effort to reduce the number of jobs lost to foreign workers.
One change, proposed by Rep. Rosa DeLauro, D-Conn., might force companies to think
differently about training overseas workers. DeLauro's bill calls for tighter restrictions on
L-1 visas, which are often used by companies to bring in overseas workers on a temporary basis.
In some cases, companies have U.S. employees or contractors train their replacements,
who come here on L-1 visas.
DeLauro's bill calls for a cap of 35,000 on L-1s, which currently have no cap. It also adds
a prevailing-wage requirement and prohibits L-1 use by companies that have laid off U.S. employees
within the preceding six months and for six months after the application is filed. "We want to stop the abuse
of the L-1 visa program as a way to replace American jobs with foreign workers," DeLauro says.
Some members of Congress want stronger protection. A bill by Rep. Tom Tancredo, R-Colo.,
would allow fewer than 5,000 H-1B visas to be issued each year. It's estimated that about 90,000
such visas will be issued this year. Still, the H-1B issue may prove less significant as companies
get more comfortable just sending jobs overseas, rather than bringing technologists here to work
for lower wages. Reps. Phil Crane, R-Ill., and Charles Rangel, D-N.Y., have introduced a bill,
called the Job Protection Act of 2003, that would provide tax benefits to companies that keep
production and manufacturing on U.S. soil.
posted on July 30, 2003 08:13:30 PM new
Helen - my whole point since the very beginning is that we need to learn to cope with this adversity because we are not going to make it go away.
LImiting L-1s is only going to serve to to force companies to train offshore as well. It's less expensive anyway. since they are not dealing with relocation costs, taxes etc.
As for tax breaks. Do you really think there is one large enough? A US worker at $10 an hour makes as mu7ch in a week as a foreign worker does in a month. Add to that lower facility costs, and again less taxes and unless theUS is going to subsidise business that stay here and opposed to simply providing tax breaks I don't think they are going to be able to make it finiacially beneficial.
Ou world is changing and rather than trying to stop the changes we need to learn to adapt to them. We are either part of a world community or we are not. You have to take the bad wih the good.
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If it's really Common Sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on July 30, 2003 08:51:41 PM new
Hey twelve - just thnk of it this way.... they more jobs we export, the fewer illigals need to come over
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If it's really Common Sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on July 31, 2003 08:12:40 AM new
Pure bunk fenix03. It is the height of ignorance to think that the structural problems in the world economy can be overcome by individual initiative.
1) Native english web translation
Transaltion from what ? You must be proficient in a second language to translate it, and you must have the documentation, such as a college diploma that shows your proficiency, to get hired.
2) Importation faciliator for small businesses
Do you really think that any legitimate company would consider contracting with an uneducated, inexperienced, and undercapitalized individual ?
3) US based supplier (wrong word used, distributor is more appropriate) for international manufacturers.
Same as above, plus the supplier to the "distributor" would want a bond or a NRLOC from a bank.
International business, the new job for the high school graduate.
posted on July 31, 2003 09:46:57 AM new
::1) Native english web translation
Transaltion from what ? You must be proficient in a second language to translate it, and you must have the documentation, such as a college diploma that shows your proficiency, to get hired. ::
Not necesarily true Reamond., There are countless websites from the orient out there which have english mirrors which are laughably bad at best. I's easy to see what they are trying to say but have failed due to literal translations as opposed to native ones. I speak neither Japanese nor Chinese but can easily fix these sites. I did something similar with an importer here. There had great connections, great product and prices but their site was receiving very few responses due to the poor translations. The same is also true of Spanish language sites
::2) Importation faciliator for small businesses
Do you really think that any legitimate company would consider contracting with an uneducated, inexperienced, and undercapitalized individual ?::
I have nothing but a high school education and have three businesses that I assist in finding inventory for from off shore service so yes Reamond I do. In fact I found a new source while surfing the web two nights ago for items that two of the bussinesses I work with utilize and can now purchase at 50% of their current costs and that I can sell myself via ecommerce.
::plus the supplier to the "distributor" would want a bond or a NRLOC from a bank.::
There area great deal of small specialized overseas manufacturers that require nothing more than payment for your order. Anyone can start with these types of companies, learn, expand their resources and grow. Additionally these companies are great sources for learning and training as they are eager to find people interested in working with them so they will pass on what experience and lessons they have learned.
If you don't believe me, fine. I personally could not care less. I'm doing it and am successful enough that I am able to pay my bills and put some money away each month in addition to increasing my purchase amounts. I offered these suggestions as viable alternatives.
BTW - Get over the damn High School thing. I was using that as an example of the fact that there is no special education level or training needed. Just a desire and will to accomplish something new. As usual, your only desire seems to be to bi*ch and complain. Stop seeking out the walls, start looking for the doors.
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If it's really Common Sense, why do so few people actually have it?
[ edited by fenix03 on Jul 31, 2003 10:01 AM ]
posted on July 31, 2003 09:55:36 AM new
My actual point in coming back to ths thread today was to to point out a real time example for debate.
Pillowtex has just announced itr's intentions to file bankruptcy. 6500 jobs lost. Part of the reason they cite is their inability to compete with foreign labor costs.
Now presented for debate.... had Pillowtex outsourced their manuafacturing the company would still be fluid and only 5300 of the 6500 jobs would be lost as the remainder where employed in distribution, support services, accounting and human resources. (OK, maybe some of those human resources people would be gone too but you get the point). In such a case, what is the responsible business to do? BTW - for those unaware of who Pillowtex is, you probably have at least one or two of their products in your home. They were the maker of Fieldcrest and Cannon home textiles among others. .
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If it's really Common Sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on July 31, 2003 02:14:38 PM new
Pillowtex would be a shell corp in the US had it out sourced its labor force. Then at some point it would move its corporate HQ over seas just as Stanley Tools did.
Labor isn't the only job type going to cheap third world countries. If you had read the articles, what is particularly worrisome with the present trend is that the white collar jobs such as accounting and other "papaer pushing" jobs are going to India and Ireland.
I would prefer that a corporation go bankrupt rather than do what Stanley Tools and the other companies are doing.
Far more than just jobs are leaving. Training and techno-structure are also going with these jobs.
posted on July 31, 2003 02:16:23 PM new
All our jobs are going over seas to get their product produced cheaper,yet when it comes back to the USA it will sell higher than it did before,be much less quality,and when the people in in US no longer buy it because we can't afford as we have no jobs,they will wonder what went wrong.And there isn't any President that is going to come along and make it better.This is a mess that has been in the making many Presidents ago.Welcome to the end USA you screwed up.
posted on July 31, 2003 04:00:18 PM new
I think the thing you are missing Fenix is that all of this "import" crap from other countries or us sending out materials to get bac assembled products, is what is WRONG...
We need to quit NAFTA, place some stiff penalties on countries that leave the US and in a sense make it very unlucrative for a company to do so...
posted on July 31, 2003 05:41:15 PM new
Twelve - what the hell does NAFTA have to to do with jobs and manufacturing going to Hong Kong, Taiwan and India. Better check out that Acrunym again my friend or find a different scape goat.
You guys are hiding your heads in the sand. Pillowtex is a clear and perfect example of the reality of life. PIllowtex kept their manufacturing incountry. Because of this they were unable to compete with foreign manugfacture products. Because of this 6500 jobs were lost. You are not going to stop imports. Blocking importation will only serve to end exprtation and american consumers cannot purchase enough items to keep american manufacturers alive. The same jobs will be lost. The US needs to find a new avenue. This nation cannot compete with labor costs so we better start learning how tho do it with our brains or you Reamond and Twelve are right. We will see more and more of our people hitting the bottom of the proverty levels as those third world nations that learned to adapt and market their advantages climb the economic ladder. to reuse a ephemism, it's time to stop banging our collective heads against the wall and start looking for the doors to new opportunites.
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If it's really Common Sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on July 31, 2003 06:24:39 PM new
What workers should do is unionize the corporations that are importing all the junk. Wal-mart, Kmart, Target, The Dollar Stores, and all the others. Make them pay higher wages to make up for the wages lost.
posted on July 31, 2003 06:51:54 PM new
Freaking Brilliant idea Blair Unionize low cost retailers. Force them to increase their wages, thereby eliminating their profit margin thusly putting the breaks to growth plans and causing a price increae to consumers. These ould be the same consumers up to their eyeballs in debt who would cut their spending at such retailers. This would further cut the profitablility of the stores, especially in lower income areas. ONce the store becomes unprofitable and there is no feasable way to correct because of forced wage levels, store is shut down and what jobs it provided to the community are gone. Damn skippy - great idea!
Twelve - raising tarriff osn foreign imports will only serve to result in retaliatory actions taken upon our items sold overseas. Without an international market, product levels wil have to be scaled back.... are you getting the picture here?
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If it's really Common Sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on July 31, 2003 07:16:41 PM new"Freaking Brilliant idea Blair Unionize low cost retailers. Force them to increase their wages, thereby eliminating their profit margin thusly putting the breaks to growth plans and causing a price increae to consumers. These ould be the same consumers up to their eyeballs in debt who would cut their spending at such retailers. This would further cut the profitablility of the stores, especially in lower income areas. ONce the store becomes unprofitable and there is no feasable way to correct because of forced wage levels, store is shut down and what jobs it provided to the community are gone. Damn skippy - great idea!
Well,that's freaking outrageous, fenix03. How on earth do you leap to the conclusion that increased wages will *totally eliminate profit margin* and break growth plans??? You have some wild ass ideas that have absolutely no basis.
posted on July 31, 2003 07:27:04 PM new
Yes, the farmers making decent money would be GREAT!!
You guys keep mentioning jobs that are going to India. What surprises me is all the Indian [M.E.] doctors that are coming to America to practice. In California there appears to be a very noticable increase of both female and male doctors from India practicing, especially at HMOs. Maybe they're willing to work for less money than American trained physicians? I don't know.
posted on July 31, 2003 08:26:33 PM new
Linda - maybe they are more accustomed to the red tape and don't mind it as much.
Hopefully they will be more efective that they current crop. Just found out today that my stepfather has had another occurance of skin cancer. He talked to his HMO doctor about it a year ago mentioning that the area was showing the symtoms as his last occurance. The HMO doctor ignored him. A few months ago they got a new insurance plan, new doctor and sure as hell, he's positive for cancer again.
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If it's really Common Sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on August 1, 2003 06:13:30 AM new
Hopefully they caught the cancer in time... It must be HMO's Fenix... a friend had the same thing happen... now he has a huge scar on his nose.
... after having 3 operations to remove the lesions...
