posted on August 23, 2003 02:52:34 PM new
I am still waiting for my answer there Fenix... do you know the difference between City Firefighters and Forestry Workers?
posted on August 23, 2003 03:09:43 PM new
Twelve - perhaps you should direct that question to Linda. The people I was referring to are the contract labor crews brought in during fire season. Linda is the one that brought up Firefighters. Until the salaries of California Firefighters was brought up I wa always under the inpression that we were speaking of the fire teams used to combat wildfires. Since wildfires frequently also threaten residential homes and those teams aid in saving them that is the situation my hypothetical was dealing with. I thought I made this clear in my last post but if there is still some question I can try to type very slowly the next time.
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Men Are Like Grapes. If You Stomp on Them and Keep Them in the Dark Long Enough, They Might Turn Into Something That You Would Take to Dinner
posted on August 23, 2003 03:14:18 PM new
Please type slower next time, that way you can look the big words up as you go...and who knows you may even remember them.
posted on August 23, 2003 03:20:07 PM newYes I am quite sure Profe would know about that...
There you go again TP, making your snide personal remarks....couldn't figure out how to get a sheep joke in there? What's the matter? Having an off day? You should be careful about being "sure" about anybody on this board. Don't forget, you thought I was catholic, just because I said I'd been to mass. Then again, why would I go to mass if I'm not...
fenix:
I do know a bit about the "shape of our educational system" , and you're right. I'll tell you a little story that happened last year. It's one of many similar tales. Last year, we were doing a unit on advertising and how language is used to convince potential buyers to become actual buyers. We had studied the various techniques of ad propaganda such as bandwagon, testimonial, etc. I gave my class the assignment to go home and find a print ad which demonstrates each of the techniques, clip it out and be prepared to share it with the class. The next day, I received a note from a parent, requesting that their child be "excused" from the work, as they had NO print material in their home. Not a magazine, not a newspaper, NOTHING. The parent did not ask that their child be given an alternate assignment, or extra time to complete the work, they simply wanted their kid "excused" from the work because, in their exact words, "we don't do a lot of reading at home, we mostly watch TV." I sent a note home, as it was a friday, indicating that a newspaper could be purchased for 50 cents at the market, and giving the student until Monday to makeup the work. The following Monday, the parents kept their son home and called my principal to complain that I was being "demanding", and "unfair" to their poor little child.This sort of thing happens with regularity. The "state of our educational system" doesn't exist in some sort of vacuum. It directly mirrors the state of our society. I have immigrant students in my class. Some are bright, some are not. Some are literate in spanish, some are not literate in either language. In my experience however, MOST are grateful, eager to learn, and their parents are VERY supportive of our efforts on behalf of their kids. Give me a classroom full of those kinds of kids, with those kinds of parents, and I wouldn't give a damn WHERE they came from, or HOW they got here.
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What luck for the leaders that men do not think. - Adolph Hitler
posted on August 23, 2003 03:34:49 PM new
Yes, twelvepole, it was I that brought the confusion into the mix. sorry...
When fenix asked about your home burning down....my mind was on firefighters salaries to put out most home fires....not forest fires.
Further checking at the US Office of Personnel Mgmnt. (OPM) shows that apprentice wildland firefighters are paid at normal government levels of wages. ie: GS-3; GS-4; GS-5...with GS-3 being the entry level and GS-5 having more fire fighting experience. Wages paid per hour are $8.70; $9.77 and 10.93 plus overtime, etc. And I still believe there might be college students who would be willing to work at these wages IF the jobs were not being filled by illegals.
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There are many people who don't have children, or their children are grown who don't really like paying for the education of those, in the US, who chose to have children. They have to anyway.
Just as there are many in our country who don't hold the same opinion you [profe - give me more of these students] and fenix do about educating other countries children and feel that money should be spent educating our own children.....especially when so many believe there aren't enough funds to properly do so now.
posted on August 23, 2003 04:00:39 PM new
Prof - you are correct - I am perhaps unfair in indicting the educational system alone. My former company used to regularly receive letters from school age kids that left me with a feeling of dread for our future. Barely legible hand writing, hideous spelling (Is it just me or was Hooked on Phonics the beginning of the end?) and then the fact that probably 60% of these letters were begging. I laid a blanket indictment at the feet of the education system I guess because the problem was so widespread and uniform across the country. Maybe it was easier to assume that there was a nationwide educational failing than nationwide parenting. Either way, I still have doubts about what happens when that generation hits the age of independence.
Although I have not had a lot of contact with immigrant kids, the kids of friends of mine in Mexico have always surprised me with their thirst to learn. They want to learn the english name of everything. Little do they know they are helping me with my spanish at the same time.
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Men Are Like Grapes. If You Stomp on Them and Keep Them in the Dark Long Enough, They Might Turn Into Something That You Would Take to Dinner
posted on August 23, 2003 04:01:02 PM new
There are also many people who have no children or who's children are grown that do not mind paying for the education of children regardless of their parentage.
I would much rather pay to educate than to incarcerate at some future date.
posted on August 23, 2003 04:09:03 PM new
Linda - I used the wage of 6.90 per hour because it is the one listed in the article that was referrenced. Also, according to that article, these are not official governement hires, those have been cut down. They are seasonal temporary labors employed by private contractors.
As far as education. I believe whole heartedly that if there is one right that every human should have it is education. Especially a child. The child did not make the decision to illegally emmigrate. Their parents made that deision so why punish the child? Why should the child be penalized for what you consider to be the sins of the parent, especially when chances are very good that the child will eventually become a legal citizen?
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Men Are Like Grapes. If You Stomp on Them and Keep Them in the Dark Long Enough, They Might Turn Into Something That You Would Take to Dinner
posted on August 23, 2003 04:33:10 PM newWhy should the child be penalized for what you consider to be the sins of the parent, especially when chances are very good that the child will eventually become a legal citizen?
posted on August 23, 2003 05:50:36 PM newWell one thing I am sure about is your propensity for lying...your little display in the Commandments thread proved that...
"little display"...that's cute ...and as for lying...no big, there's always confession
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What luck for the leaders that men do not think. - Adolph Hitler
posted on August 24, 2003 02:08:41 PM new
The least expensive solution is to provide a one way bus tickek back to the border after photographing & fingerprint all of them. When they attempt to cross the border again, check the prints, if they have been deported, turn them around again.
posted on August 24, 2003 02:45:35 PM new
TX - I would think that someone so against illegal immigration would know a little about the practices used to fight it.
1) There is not a bus ticket - There is an INS escort. (Did you think they just slapped their hand and told them to go home?)
2) All deported illegals are photographed and fingerprinted. I believe it is the third offense that is comes with a mandatory jail sentence,
3) What computerized check point is it that you are referring to where non visa holding citizens of other countries are crossing? I'm dying to hear more about this "check their fingerprints before you let them sneak across" tactic that you are suggesting.
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Men Are Like Grapes. If You Stomp on Them and Keep Them in the Dark Long Enough, They Might Turn Into Something That You Would Take to Dinner
posted on August 24, 2003 03:25:40 PM new
Ferm, if you were to reread my original posting it is in reference to Illegal immigrant CHILDREN in U.S. schools. THAT is what I am refering to.
Given my preferences, What NEEDS to be done to REPEAT offenders, is to implant them with a radio transponder containing cyanide, it automatically detonates when they cross illegally.
[ edited by TXPROUD on Aug 24, 2003 03:28 PM ]
posted on August 24, 2003 04:29:01 PM new
::Ferm::
How does one get F-E-R-M from F-E-N-I-X?
::if you were to reread my original posting it is in reference to Illegal immigrant CHILDREN in U.S. schools. THAT is what I am refering to.::
Kids do get deported, it just does not stem from the school system. Minors are deported all the time wih their parents. I'm still at a loss though where this smuggling checkpoint with fingerprint analysis should be located. Is it a free one time pass type of thing? Are you advocating amnesty on the first crossing attempt? As long as your fingerprints are not in the system we'll let you try this time? Since you state you were talking about school children is it only good for foreign residents under the age of 18?
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Men Are Like Grapes. If You Stomp on Them and Keep Them in the Dark Long Enough, They Might Turn Into Something That You Would Take to Dinner
You should be careful about being "sure" about anybody on this board. Don't forget, you thought I was catholic, just because I said I'd been to mass. Then again, why would I go to mass if I'm not...