I don't think that Jesus would duck the question and pass the problem on.
I believe that modern Christianity has lost touch with the teachings of Jesus. He cared about those who cared nothing about religion....those that you might call "sinners" and in this case, child abusers. In doing so, he showed them the love of God. Forgive me if I'm wrong but isn't that a basic principle of Christianity...Love of humanity?
And by humanity, I mean all of humanity...not just those who are doing well.
posted on August 27, 2003 11:04:23 AM new
Helen, in this case, they, the people of the cloth did more than just abuse children. They abused the word God & his trust, not the teachings of Christ, they chose to hide these dirty deeds from those they serve.
So in this case God, is showing his wrath. Which his son Jesus, can not do. So he Jesus, had to step aside. He can only show the love of God, not his wrath. The old Testament does that..
"I believe that modern Christianity has lost touch with the teachings of Jesus"
This I agree with. I also believe all Religons have lost touch with their belief.
Yes Jesus, does care about Non-believers, sinners. That is why he was sent.
Do I believe in God? yes!. At one time I did not. Do I have Friends that do not?. Yes.
posted on August 27, 2003 11:42:52 AM new
That's interesting, Fred.
I don't believe in God but I've learned a lot from Jesus and from the Bible.
Maybe I shouldn't single out Christianity but many people here have indicated that they are Christians. So, I was focused on the disparity between their religious belief and practice. I see people, for example who don't care about the plight of illegal immigrants. Usually, the same people have no concern for those millions of Americans who are without health insurance or jobs and live in poverty. There is no consideration either for those born with differing sexual orientations such as homosexuals...they are referred to as "deviants". Even people with aids have been maligned. The thousands of people killed in Iraq and Afghanistan are seen as simply a "price" of removing one man from office. I could go on with drug addicts etc but I'm sure that you get the picture as I see it.
posted on August 27, 2003 01:57:13 PM new
Helen if you learn from the teaching of Jesus & the Bible, lets hope it is to understand religion in a respectful way & not used it as ammunition belittle those that do believe. I myself read very little of the bible. I'm very respectful of all religions & faiths. I understand & respect those that don't believe in God.
Believing in God & the Teachings of Jesus or a religion is the easy part. It is much harder to practice it, & for those that don't believe in God, to understand it.
Christianity is not the only religion & there are many faiths in all religions.
I believe, that not believing in God is a Religion and should be treated as such.
posted on August 27, 2003 02:21:13 PM new
I agree Fred. I think that's what rawbunzel meant when she said all religions are equal... I thought that was a good statement.
posted on August 27, 2003 02:24:19 PM new
One thing I have to say though, is when any organized religion condones stupidity and not using your "God-given" senses, that's when I'll protest.
posted on August 27, 2003 02:29:57 PM new
KD - [if I'm taking what you said correctly]
Good. That way we can totally eliminate ALL the religious bashing and just discuss/debate the issue at hand. No need to bring religion or lack of into any debate. As even those who have no faith can use the same 'senses' they're suppose to have.
posted on August 28, 2003 11:35:54 AM new
Wgm, you only read the bible and use it to promote HATE.
yes, the Old Testament is part of the bible, but with the coming of the Messiah the death penalty for those Old Testament crimes were abolished as Christ fullfilled the law. NOW to kill someone for crimes was to remove any chance of that soul's repentence, the ultimate crime against God. Only God himself has that power, not you, or some neo-nazi prisoner. And when God was given the chance to enforce that law personally (Jesus and the Adulteress) he did not take it. Yet you and your fellow scum revel in the fact that one of God's errant children, prodigal son as you might say, was murdered. This adds the blood to your hands as an enemy of God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit and their plan of salvation. Similar to be being in league with the devil. Because even if God, himself, ordered the priest's death through the Neo-Nazi, is was not a joyful day for him. Angels did not sing, they lamented for him death and God cried. The only joy was with Satan and the celebration was in Hell as another soul was lost.
I AM a Christian and have dabbled some in Bible study. I do not support molestation but neither will I celebrate their murder.
posted on August 28, 2003 08:44:28 PM new
As I read all these posts, a few things cross my mind about being christian. First, I think it was stated Christ died so that ALL men could be forgiven. Not some, but all. The 2nd thing I think of is when the disciplies who were all raised in a Jewish culture said to Christ, "teach us how to pray", and he recited the Our Father, well, what about that line that says "forgive us our tresspasses as we forgive those who have trespassed against us"?
The other thing (and I am not a practicing Christian per se) that always sticks in my mind too, is when Christ said, "Abide in my word and let my word Abide in you."
I agree with Mlecher. That priest was owned by some evil and I have no sympathy for his death; yet I do not, and will not celebrate it as some type of victory because its just another act of violence.
posted on August 28, 2003 10:58:06 PM newFirst, I think it was stated Christ died so that ALL men could be forgiven. Not some, but all. That will then include the man who has killed the priest too.
posted on August 29, 2003 06:05:03 AM new
Helen,
I'll lose no sleep over the passing of Father Molester. I lost no slept when Jeffrey Dahmer was beat to death. Sometimes the gods work in mysterious ways.
posted on August 29, 2003 06:27:58 AM new
Lind_K...
Yes, the man who killed the priest has been forgiven by God and should be forgiven by us. But still punishment by seperating him from society is still in order because God has commanded the we follow the "laws of the land"
Colin...
I won't lose any sleep either over his murder, but it won't make me sleep any better either. People believing that vigilante justice is "good" justice. But what got me riled up was the rejoicing and celebration of the murder. That is the lowest form of evil and if you are any type of reverend, you should know that.....
posted on August 29, 2003 06:31:08 AM new
I think the "Father" was the lowest form of evil. Bar none.
Amen,
Reverend Colin
http://www.reverendcolin.com
Molester Beaten In Jail Cell By Former Victim
Attacker, 22, Recognizes Kevin Kinder As Man Who Abused Him 11 Years Ago
POSTED: 6:11 p.m. EDT October 10, 2003
UPDATED: 6:18 p.m. EDT October 10, 2003
TAMPA, Fla. -- A convicted child molester who was placed in the same Florida jail cell with one of his victims was beaten unconscious Thursday.
The former victim was being held on a probation violation.
Authorities say he recognized cellmate Kevin Kinder as the man who abused him and three other boys when he was 11 years old.
His lawyer said the man, who is now 22, jumped on Kinder and punched him repeatedly.
The former victim's mother called the encounter a "fluke" but added that it was very "therapeutic" for her son.
There were about 65 other inmates in the holding cell at the time of the attack.
Kinder is serving 60 years in state prison on a probation violation after serving six years for molesting the four boys. He was at the Tampa facility for a hearing.
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it." - A Few Good Men
posted on October 20, 2003 07:17:10 AM newI. I Am The Lord Thy God; Thou Shalt have no other gods Before Me.
II. Thou Shalt Not Take The Name Of The Lord, Thy God, In Vain.
III. Remember The Sabbath Day, to Keep it Holy.
IV. Thou shalt honour thy Father And Thy Mother, that it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.
V. Thou Shalt Not Kill.
VI. Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery.
VII. Thou Shalt Not Steal.
VIII. Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness Against Thy Neighbour.
IX. Thou Shalt Not Covet Thy Neighbour’s House.
X. Thou Shalt Not Covet Thy Neighbour’s Wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his cattle, nor anything that is thy neighbour’s.
So should thou execute by state? Bear false witness against Muslims? Covet thy neighbour’s oil?
Anyhow, back to this paedophile;
Oh well; no great loss; at least he had a fighting chance, and was even given a trial, which is more than we can say for the 13 year old boy ‘detainee’ in Camp Iguana @ Guantanamo Bay.
In God We Trust that he will fairly judge us and not just ‘detain us’.
posted on October 20, 2003 08:21:03 AM new
Okay...something's not right here [at least for me ]. twelvepole started this thread August 23, and this article was updated October 10, 2003
BUT it says:
TAMPA, Fla. -- A convicted child molester who was placed in the same Florida jail cell with one of his victims was beaten unconscious Thursday.
The more I think about the death penalty etc, I'm beginning to take what I use to consider a 'radical' view. I believe it was fenix who said that in Saudi Arabia they let the victims families decide what punishment the guilty one should be given. I'm beginning to think that's a good idea.
We American's argue about the death penalty, length of sentences, etc. Problem solved if the families of the victims make the decision. That way if you're one who wants justice, you'll have it. If you believe nothing should be done to these criminals it will be handled that way.
hmmmmmm.
This article makes his actions more understandable. Not just a commonly held prejudice against child molesters, he was his victim.
posted on October 20, 2003 08:38:17 AM new
sorry for the confusion!
I read the article this morning, and the first thing that came to mind was "Jailhouse Justice!", so posted it on this thread...
The victim's mother's statement is incredibly honest - and true.
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it." - A Few Good Men
posted on October 20, 2003 08:48:07 AM new
good morning to you
By the way, I agree with you and fenix...
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it." - A Few Good Men
posted on October 20, 2003 08:55:47 AM new
wgm - Just to be clear, fenix didn't say she supported that position, but rather gave it as information on how it's handled there.
Handling it that way though sure would eliminate everyone trying to tell everyone else how it 'should' be handled, what's fair, how wrong they are for thinking the way they do.
posted on October 20, 2003 08:58:52 AM new
Thank you Linda for clarifying that - it's early for me too
It does sound like a good idea to me, though. Unlike other posters on this board, I'm not up to inviting them over for dinner
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it." - A Few Good Men
posted on October 20, 2003 09:24:16 AM new
For the record... I do support the system used in Saudi Arabia... for two reasons. A family that wants to be involved, that needs that closure, gets it. If the family does not want to make a choice, the state deals with it independently. Also I believe that the more public ways that executions are done there have helped to keep their murder rate so incredibly low. There are no 10 year sentences or 20 years of appeals. You kill, you die. As a result, murders there are very few and far between.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
]. twelvepole started this thread August 23, and this article was updated October 10, 2003