posted on May 8, 2000 10:25:21 PM new
I used to have a great Flea Market I went to--you could find stuff there that you didn't even know existed. It was only open Saturdays and Sundays. There were regular dealers who sold different types of antiques and collectibles--and temporary people who were having a sort of one-shot garage sale. It was a blast--and I always ended up going home with a carful of stuff I didn't even know I'd wanted before I hit the market.
Gradually, over time, I started to notice a trend. There were more and more sellers selling new merchandise. I think it started with the couple who sold socks. They had every kind of socks you could imagine at great prices. Okay--that was neat--but there was no need to get there early if you were going to buy socks. They always had all styles in stock and you knew they'd be back next week if you didn't go to the market this week.
Before I knew it--there were hardly any of what I used to call "junkers"--which is what I really wanted to shop. Instead there was new jewelry, pots & pans, sunglasses, houseplants, vacuum cleaners, etc. All of a sudden if was just like a mall--except it wasn't air-conditioned.
So......I stopped going. I really miss it.
When I found eBay--it was like the day I found that flea market--I was thrilled. Now it's starting to look like eBay is going to go the same way my flea market did--mainly new stuff.
Is this just my imagination? or is there really less of the neat old "junk" (for lack of a better term) on eBay?
posted on May 8, 2000 10:34:01 PM new
I'm not sure if there is less of the good old stuff - just more (too much!) of the new stuff. I wish eBay would provide a separate outlet (like zShops) for the retail junk that goes for one bid. The auction format works best for the collectibles market; all the new wholesale stuff just clutters up and bogs down the site. I suspect that sellers of that kind of item are also the ones complaining the loudest about a slowdown in sales - internet shoppers are getting smarter and finding other more efficient outlets for purchasing new goods on the net.
posted on May 8, 2000 10:43:21 PM new
Sorry mommybird, I have been complaining a lot lately, and no I do not sell any of the items you mentioned. I deal mostly in the pottery and porcelain, with some new children's clothing and a few other items thrown in. You are presuming an awful lot about someone else's motives.
You make a good point. As a matter of fact, I have smartened up a bit myself. I wanted to buy my Dad a new wallet for his birthday--and the first place I looked was eBay. Prices were sky high for the kind he likes. Just on a lark I typed http://www.walletbrandname.com and lo and behold--the manufacturer had a web site--and I was able to buy his wallet for a lot less from them--plus they gift wrapped it, included a message and sent it via UPS in time for his birthday. He was tickled--and I found out the best deal for new stuff isn't always on eBay!
I was hoping that Golds would sort of pick up where eBay is evidently leaving off--but there aren't many sellers over there. Golds "feels" a bit like the old eBay, though.
It would be great if eBay could somehow weed out the new merchandisers from the great old "garage saler/junker" sellers. If the new merchandise was in something like zshops they could be eliminated from a search.
Even though eBay has been trying to control keyword spamming--that doesn't weed out all of the new stuff that a search pulls up mixed in with the oldies but goodies.
posted on May 8, 2000 10:54:59 PM new
"I think it depends on what you are selling. I sell books and have become more specialized, better at listing, and constantly watching and researching what does well. I have been having a stellar year, consistently week after week. But I am also not trying to sell things I might have a year ago; there's no point wasting time on things that don't move. Sellers who stay on top of the trends will continue to do well. It also helps to be a regular eBay bidder as well - it is much easier to understand the market if you are part of it."
Here is another quote of yours I take offense to, I always like it when people come on here telling how well they do, and how they are smarter than everyone else, and how they are always on top of everything, and know what to sell. Okay, good for you, but I sold books for a year and prices went way down on those recently also. I have not checked lately to see if they are up again. I and many, many other people who are on this board posting about their declining sales have been on ebay a long, long time. I know of several hundred that are way down right now. Do you happen to have any collectibles from the Pacific Rim? That is what Ebay mag is saying is one of the hottest categories now. You just have to stick in there while your categories are down and hope they come back up.
posted on May 9, 2000 05:31:33 AM newhcross,you actually "take offense" to somebody saying she's doing well and describing what she thinks is the cause? (BTW, where is the quote you stated? I don't see it in this thread.)
Frankly, I LOVE to hear who's succeeding and how, even if they sound "superior" (which I've never found here). I don't call their posts "offensive". I call them "educational", and I'll steal every workable idea they have!
mommybird, I'm with you. I am sick to death of running a search and getting 75% new, identical junk. OTOH, not everybody in the world is a vintage/antique collector. Shocking, I know, and fortunately they're a tiny minority or I'd be out of business!
posted on May 9, 2000 06:09:05 AM new
I have not noticed a problem with an overabundance of new stuff in my favorite categories. I have no doubt this is happening in some other categories, it just isn't affecting my favorites.
I'm in favor of a divide between "old and new" for some categories but I can think of others where it would be hard to make this work. For instance, in the music category many of the items are new or at least newish (like maybe 1-2 years old) but are hard to find because they're imports, limited editions, and so forth. I think it would be hard for eBay to start line drawing between what's "old" and what's "new" although I sympathize with the problem described.
posted on May 9, 2000 06:48:44 AM newhcross, if you are so easily offended, posting in message boards is not for you. BTW, where is the "quote" you posted from mommybird...
You know, this type of thing has been rehashed many times here on these boards. You can read between the lines and assume you know the motives of any poster and also find offense and fault in any comment made here. Those who continually find offense are finding it because they are looking for it. If you dig deep enough for worms, you will eventually find them.
posted on May 9, 2000 08:03:35 AM newmommybird - An excellent post! It's obvious you've done your homework and that it's paying dividends.
I agree with many of your points. When the market collapses for a particular collectible there is no sense in spending the time and energy in listing it. Much better to either 1)set it aside for a few weeks or months then check again, 2) run it through a RL auction to quickly recoup your investment, or 3) (my favorite) donate it to Goodwill and take the tax deduction (I need all of those I can get!). Of course these suggestions refer to common collectibles; finer antiques requiring a larger investment are handled entirely differently.
I also agree with cybercat -- it certainly does seem that there has been a decline in the number of medium- to high-end antiques and collectibles. I remember (and not too long ago) when I would run a comp for a newly-acquired piece, at least a dozen would pop up. Currently 20% of my searches pull up nothing!
What gives? Could it be that some antiques sellers are finding ebay more demanding of time and energy than they're willing to expend? I'm not complaining, mind you...
posted on May 9, 2000 11:10:07 AM new
Fountainhouse,
"What gives? Could it be that some antiques sellers are finding ebay more demanding of time and energy than they're willing to expend? I'm not complaining, mind you...
I am one of those dealers of medium to high-end antiques and collectibles and have been with eBay since 1998. I'm sure you didn't mean to offend, but I am slightly offended that you would suggest that we are leaving (or in my case, slowing down) because of the work involved.
I will concede that dealers who only sell through malls may find on-line selling too much work. For the most part, they are used to stocking their booths and MAYBE dusting and cleaning. Period. They don't have to "sell" their merchandise; deal with returns; or have any contact with their customers.
Heck, most of the time they don't even give you any background on their merchandise to justify their asking price. On-line selling requires complete descriptions. Unless it is highly profitable, I think the work will get old for those types of dealers.
I am a full-time dealer. I am not in any malls; I exhibit at indoor antique shows. THAT is work!!! Just my display takes me 7-8 hours to set up. I was so excited about selling online to cut my overhead. The amount of work and expense was not a concern. It never is when you have a profitable bottom line.
Why are we leaving or slowing down? I'm sure there are many reasons. I can give you a few of mine.
1. My business has not been the same since the "it's only $1" fiasco. If you remember, there was a boycott and I think a lot of sellers, who were also good buyers, left in droves.
2. There are fewer customers for our merchandise in our price ranges. I think those who are willing to spend the money on antiques are not browsing (can't blame them) but have limited their buying to just certain sellers. And, those who do want what I am selling quite often want it at yard sale prices. They must think everything on eBay is bought at yard sales.
3. In my research, the prices of some items that do sell on eBay are much lower than the shop and show prices in my area. Case in point: Victorian figural napkin rings are about half the price on eBay as at shows. Many of the items are even lower than the prices paid at auction. Because of that, it is tough to buy right at auction for resale on eBay.
My apologies for the length of this; I'm not usually this wordy. I seem to save it up and then let it all out at once.
posted on May 9, 2000 11:22:17 AM new
femme - right on - I think many folks are just finding out that it takes lots of work to make a good living via eBay or any other auction, and they hate competition of newer, less expensive items. I deal in antiques but I also deal in new items - often the difference in a newer piece of crystal and an older one which is may not be mint, in money can be thousands, in appearance, absolutely nothing at all....
posted on May 9, 2000 12:01:03 PM new
Geez, femme, why would you be "mildly offended" by my hypothesis? I personally know of several dealers who have substantially cut back and/or dropped their ebay activities recently. Lots of varying circumstances, but all boil down to the fact that ebay selling is not a bed of roses. Many of these dealers are used to mall selling -- and like it that way! I'm not saying you're one of them since you obviously aren't!
FYI, I'm a dealer of medium- and high-end antiques as well. I was mildly amused by your description of those of us who have mall booths. While I agree many dealers fit your profile, I'm not one of them, and I don't believe that the majority of mall dealers are.
My ebay sales continue to be strong. As mentioned previously, I list only those items that comps show will do well. I agree with your point #3, i.e. that many items sell better in other venues. Most of my better inventory is placed in my mall spaces because the market is soft on ebay.
Have to pick my daughter up at school. No offense taken, and none intended on my part.
posted on May 9, 2000 12:24:11 PM new
I see a lot of new stuff that I'd rather buy on ebay than any other net site or local store. I set my price, don't have to shop around to find it, and can get it sooner in most cases. The new stuff won't replace the old. I know what you mean though, finding those old treasures. I sell a lot of that old stuff, and it is really fun selling it because it's part of history.
posted on May 9, 2000 01:21:10 PM new
For a number of years I sold pre-1940 Western Americana and Native American Art. Did 25+ shows a year; Indian art shows, cowboy shows, antique shows, gun shows; large and small all over the US. For the most part had a wonderful time and met a lot of great people. Then there got to be so many shows it was hard to decide which one would be the best and they were becoming more expensive each year. Most large shows are several hundred dollars for a two or three days, plus expenses.
A couple of years ago I started selling on ebay. The cowboy stuff was going for premium prices, I didn't have to leave home and I did not have the expenses.
It wasn't long, however, before the market was flooded and generally over priced. Now the high end cowboy items rarely make it to ebay and when they do they bring 1/3 to 1/2 what they would bring at a show; if you can find the right buyer. I do only 5 or 6 shows a year now and the rest of the time is ebay. Some things sell on ebay and others are worth carrying around the country. Plus ebay has let me expand into other markets and into areas that I would not have before.
I think ebay will thrive in its present state as long as the overall economy continues the way it has for the last few years. If the economy makes a drastic change ebay will change also. Just my two-bit opinion.
posted on May 9, 2000 04:50:03 PM new
Question was: The future of eBaY. The Good: Transactional feedback, The Bad: Deadbeats, shills, & sellers with bad attitudes (there will always be new people who simply have no Ideal what they are doing), The Ugly: Their support staff was and is not worth a spit.(One would think they are the Invisible man, the way they hide behind their, were only a venue, every time they get In trouble)& (are all the people going to there boards and these boards asking for help getting a good start).I see eBaY's changes over the last year as the start of their demise, to many chiefs and not enough Indians,(no offense to any natives).
---
Like a box of mixed chocolates, or not!
posted on May 9, 2000 05:18:49 PM new
As for the new vs used/collectible argument, why not give sellers the option of selecting the condition of the item -- new in box, like new, slightly used, used, whatever. And sellers could choose not to include a description. It would only make a difference if someone were searching for an item in a particular condition.
I think things like this will be the most significant addtion to eBay in the near future -- more robust search capabilities.
It all comes down to supply and demand and making transactions as efficient as possible.
As far as Ebay itself, I would suggest that Ebay is the next big monopolistic threat in the US today, at least as far as a "monopoly" is defined today. And Ebay is already starting to show some monopolistic practices -- see some of the recent discussions of Paypal vs Billpoint.
If the market is left to its own devices, I think that for the forseeable future (and who knows how long that may be) Ebay will control a similar marktet share in the auction market that Microsoft holds in the OS market -- about 90%.
posted on May 9, 2000 07:30:46 PM new
I think the trends shifts over time at the flea markets from newer to older I know it has here.
use to be many good flea markets with old collectables then there was mall like flea markets mostly new stuff.
went to the flea market for the frist time in year about three weeks ago loads of the old collectables prices high then I remmber but that is to be exspected.
thing I found though is that many of the things today concidered old and collectable is from the 60s and 70s and makes me feel vintage sheesh.
this could be some of what you are noticeing too flea markets are filling with items we grew up with and we hardly though of as old collectables.
some of the toys I played with from year to year are now in flea markets. heck I wish I till had my old apple and orange crate bicycles today I would be in the money today.
I must have had a new stinray bike every year now these are called rare collectables .
posted on May 9, 2000 08:29:04 PM new
Hey all:
My "virgin" post, as it were. My brother and I deal mainly in books, papers, letters and maps. I have noticed a slowdown in our sales, but I have also noticed that people are listing items in the wrong places! Mommybird, I am with you- it takes RESEARCH and HARD WORK!! Any fly by nighter can post 3-10 items for sale a week, but try listing 100-300 items a week, staggering them with different dates, end times etc. Thats work!! Although I also agree with cybercat, in that I miss the old "flea market" ways of collecting/selling. No matter how much you list, and how hard you try, it's difficult to "dicker" with someone on line, which to me was always the fun part about running the store. Ebay is ever changing and evolving (gosh, I loath that word), and for better or worse, we are stuck with it. Who knows, if Ebay can get rid of some of it's "chiefs" (it's lack of response time drives me nuts!!), then things can change for the better. If not, eventually someone will knock them off.
posted on May 10, 2000 05:20:46 AM newmommybird, you should write a manual on how to sell online. Your posts (here and in other threads) on this issue are well-considered and interesting, not to mention a good example of what it does take to be a successful dealer.
posted on May 10, 2000 06:11:05 AM newHCQ...I would like to second what you said above to mommybird and add that the education that I have received here on AW through the generous sharing of so many people's experience and knowledge, has proved invaluable to me.
That individuals would share this hard-won knowledge with so many does a lot to restore my faith in human nature.
I don't think any of us can predict with any certainty the future of eBay, no more than we could have foreseen two or three years ago where we are today. We have to keep educating ourselves and be ready to change with the medium. When it ceases to be an enjoyable challenge (albeit, sometimes a frustrating one), it is perhaps the time to seek other things to do with ourselves and other means to add to our coffers.
---
&%$*# spelling
[ edited by paperfan on May 10, 2000 06:12 AM ]
posted on November 19, 2000 07:36:27 PM new
Ebay's future? Right now, I would assume it matches the sellers' future----and from the latest numbers ~ not too good!
I had a shoppe a few years ago - and watched carefully how the profits charted. When the writing was on the wall -- packed up and got outta there~ Nobody to blame, the landlord never messed with my decisions - it just was a matter of logic to close down.
The difference here is that we are LOCKED out of our store if ebay malfunctions which makes ebay in control of our financial future. From listing to listing, one never knows what they cooked up overnight to re-direct our own financial future. No matter what they stew in their pot -- it goes bad much too quickly.
The only thing wrong with ebay is that they are in our face and trying to control our private and constitutional decisions like whether to require Credit Cards, (and pressing theirs in our bidder's face) which category we want, whether we want NPD sent to our bidder, and on and on ---- If I close down now, there IS someone to blame!
It's not an auction anymore - it's a Concentration Camp!
posted on November 19, 2000 07:46:03 PM new
eBay can be a pain in the butt sometimes, but you can leave anytime you want. I doubt you could get many people to agree that it is anything at all like a concentration camp.
posted on November 19, 2000 08:20:34 PM newIf I close down now, there IS someone to blame!
Yep. And it's not Ebay.
Ebay never promised you a free ride. If you don't like it, you are free to go elsewhere. For example, there are plenty of sellers here who have migrated some or all of their auctions to Yahoo and are very pleased with it.
Sure, there are problems with Yahoo, too.
But there are problems with EVERY business. Things happen fast online, and you have to adapt quickly. If you don't, it doesn't matter who you blame, the results will be the same.
posted on November 19, 2000 09:09:53 PM new
Well, certainly ebay is not to always to blame for sales problems, and usually if my ebay sales are dropping, so will my Yahoo sales. The two are of the same market. But, if ebay is doing things, or not doing things that are hurting my profits, yes, ebay is at fault. I could choose to change my inventory, I could also choose lesser profitable outlets, but for what purpose, just to take the blame away from ebay? That's crazy! My personal responsibility is limited to choosing my best alternatives.
"If you lend someone $20, and never see that person again, it was probably worth it."
[ edited by quickdraw29 on Nov 19, 2000 09:16 PM ]
posted on November 19, 2000 10:19:45 PM new
I'm not sure where I stand anymore regarding new vs. used merchandise. I used to be more sure, but the line has become increasingly blurred to me. I currently sell used merchandise (vintage clothing & vanity items, and used books generally) but I am selling off my stock in those areas--my goal is to be completely sold out by the end of the year. Starting with the new year, I will be focusing on selling my custom designs and handcrafted specialty items, which have been more profitable for me than vintage things for the last six months or so. So I guess, in a way, I will be one of those "new sellers" although I wouldn't put wearable art in the same category as, say, socks and cheap imported toys (which have taken over my local flea markets also). I would say then that there are several categories we could break ebay into now----1) vintage and collectibles stuff 2) high-end antiques 3) handcrafted, art or "artisan" items which happen to be new---quilts, original paintings, artist jewelry, etc. 4) brand new inexpensive stuff like closeout teeshirts and alarm clocks 5) brand new high end stuff like tools,gold jewelry, playstations, cars, etc. I'm not really sure where I draw the line, if it were up to me----1 through 3 only? 1,2,3 and 5 but not 4? I don't have an answer.
On the profitability issue, I am of the opinion that the high prices that were seen in the beginning of eBay's history were a result of timing---a large number of collectors seeing things they hadn't had the opportunity to purchase in the past, with an economy that provided them with the money to spend freely on those things. With the economy slowing, the increasing number of items for sale in every category---not just new items but collectibles and vintage stuff too--and the media focus on finding gold in grandma's attic, customers are becoming more price- and value-savvy, and are making fewer impulse buys, except for the very newest eBayers. Again, I don't have an easy answer. However, my decision has been made. My sales are still relatively robust, mainly because I have a good eye gleaned from years of picking and selling, but I want to try other things, new things, hence my change of merchandise. If ebay goes up in smoke, I can still sell the new items elsewhere (website, etc.) while I really don't have any other outlets for selling vintage stuff---I can no longer do flea market sales because of my health (setting up a booth and hauling boxes was ok at 25 but now.....) I have this horrible fear of a major recession setting in while I have hundreds of dollars tied up in worthless tchotchkes slowly rotting on my garage shelves.....
posted on November 19, 2000 11:21:07 PM newBut, if ebay is doing things, or not doing things that are hurting my profits, yes, ebay is at fault.
Who is at fault it absolutely irrelevant. The point is that you should expect and anticaipate major problems from Ebay. Clearly, to expect anything else is foolish.
In the end, all that matters is whether you are able to adapt to the changing marketplace. If you are not able to adapt, then you can blame Ebay, or Uncle Sam, or Adam Smith. It doesn't matter. The end result is that you will no longer be in business.
