posted on September 8, 2003 10:09:43 AM new
by Molly Ivins
Creators Syndicate
09.02.03
Remember how we got here
US troops continue to die in Iraq -- don't forget who sent them
AUSTIN, Texas -- At the beginning of the summer, several of us who are not exactly upbeat about our prospects in Iraq urged the administration to Do Something before it was too late -- like, by the end of the summer.
Now what? Our people are over there like staked goats in the desert, the administration won't ask other countries or the United Nations for help, they won't send more troops, and the NGOs are pulling out. There was no apparent connection between Iraq and Al Qaeda before this war, but there sure as hell is now. We have already lost more soldiers in the "peace" than we did during the war.
And still no weapons of mass destruction. I realize all the good little boys and girls are supposed to "get over" the missing weapons of mass destruction, but I cannot brush this aside with the careless élan of the neo-con hawks ("doesn't matter," "makes no difference," "who cares?". Public officials need to be held to some standard of accountability for what they say.
In a separate column, I will try to Be Constructive about our current plight, but I think it is important to remember how we got here. May I remind you of what we were repeatedly told?
"Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction." -- Dick Cheney, Aug. 26, 2002
"Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons." -- George W. Bush, Sept. 12, 2002
"The Iraqi regime possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons." -- Bush Oct. 7, 2002.
"We've also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that would be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas. We're concerned that Iraq is exploring ways of using the UAVs for missions targeting the United States." -- Bush, Oct. 7, 2002
"The evidence indicates that Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program. Saddam Hussein has held numerous meetings with Iraqi nuclear scientists, a group he calls his 'nuclear mujahideen' -- his nuclear holy warriors. Satellite photographs reveal that Iraq is rebuilding facilities at sites that have been part of its nuclear program in the past." -- Bush, Oct. 7, 2002
"We know for a fact there are weapons there." -- Ari Fleischer, Jan. 9, 2003
"Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of Sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent." -- Bush, Jan. 28, 2003
"We know that Saddam Hussein is determined to keep his weapons of mass destruction, is determined to make more." -- Colin Powell, Feb. 5, 2003
"We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have." -- Bush, Feb. 8, 2003
"Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised." -- Bush, March 17, 2003
"Well, there is no question that we have evidence and information that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, biological and chemical particularly." -- Fleischer, March 21, 2003.
"There is no doubt that the regime of Saddam Hussein possesses weapons of mass destruction. As this operation continues, those weapons will be identified, found, along with the people who have produced them and who guard them." -- Gen. Tommy Franks, March 22, 2003.
"I have no doubt we're going to find big stores of weapons of mass destruction." -- Kenneth Adelman, Defense Policy Board, March 23, 2003
"We know where they are. They are in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad." -- Donald Rumsfeld, March 30, 2003
"We'll find them. It'll be a matter of time to do so." -- Bush, May 3, 2003.
"I never believed that we'd just tumble over weapons of mass destruction in that country." -- Rumsfeld, May 4, 2003.
"U.S. officials never expected that we were going to open garages and find weapons of mass destruction." -- Condoleezza Rice, May 12, 2003
"They may have had time to destroy them, and I don't know the answer." -- Rumsfeld, May 27, 2003
"We based our decisions on good, sound intelligence, and the -- our people are going to find out the truth. And the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There's no doubt in my mind." -- Bush, July 17, 2003
To quote Bill O'Reilly of Fox News, "And I said on my program, if, if the Americans go in and overthrow Saddam Hussein and it's clean, he had nothing, I will apologize to the nation, and I will not trust the Bush administration again." -- March 18, 2003
posted on September 8, 2003 01:11:44 PM new
It's interesting how the answers become vague near the end and how it starts off with (the obvious) biological and chemical WOMD threat, to the nuclear threat that was needed for convincing purposes.
posted on September 8, 2003 01:17:09 PM new
"I did not have sexual relations with that woman" - Bill Clinton 199x
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Replay Media
Games of all kinds!
posted on September 8, 2003 01:27:43 PM new
replaymedia, are you saying that, in your eyes, since former President Bill Clinton lied about having sex, it's OK for President Bush to lie too? How does your statement relate?
posted on September 8, 2003 01:50:57 PM new
Saying that Bush was fed incorrect information all this time, to me, would be more unbelieveable than a universal agreement on what the term "sexual relations" means but besides that, do you think WOMD will be found in Iraq?
posted on September 8, 2003 02:20:37 PM new
"that Bush was fed incorrect information all this time"
All what time? There was just the one report that he based his State of The Union address on. Which has not even been proved wrong (I know, it's hard to prove a negative). Although he hasn't really come out and stated the report was wrong, I'm not familiar with any other information he's being fed.
"do you think WOMD will be found in Iraq?"
At this stage, no. Although it is not out the realm of possibility that they have been moved to Syria or somewhere, I don't believe now nor did I ever really believe they existed.
I never really did believe Saddam was a big threat to us directly. But he certainly wasn't hostile to our enemies, and with the atrocities among his own people he did need to be removed from power. One less enemy in that region certainly isn't going to hurt.
However, removing Saddam from power is not the same as spending 87 Billion dollars rebuilding Iraq. I didn't sign up for that. Clear out the old regime, set up a "basic" government and get out. it really should be just that simple.
I really think the Democrats are barking up the wrong tree. If it's really a "war on terror" why haven't we attacked Syria and Pakistan yet? I know the real answer, but what's the official line? No one cares if Bush was wrong or lied about the WMD- the end result was that an invasion WAS needed. The point that the "war on terror" isn't even involving the worst offenders is being ignored by the opposition. I know most Dems are anti-war, but you'd think they would make a stink over not even trying to accomplish the goal.
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Replay Media
Games of all kinds!
posted on September 8, 2003 02:56:50 PM new
If Bush was told, incorrectly, that Iraq was connected with al qaeda and that WOMD were there, I would think he would let everyone know and chop off a few heads, but you make some great points replaymedia!
posted on September 8, 2003 04:46:42 PM new
"If Bush was told, incorrectly, that Iraq was connected with al qaeda and that WOMD were there"
He was told that by the British Intelligence, which still does not admit any kind of mistake.
"I would think he would let everyone know and chop off a few heads"
He's getting enough flak from the Dems that he wants to avoid the issue.
As far as chopping off heads, it was the Brit's mistake, and he can't do much over there. Although there was that one Brit involved with tat report that wound up dead, which "appeared" to be a suicide.
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Replay Media
Games of all kinds!
posted on September 8, 2003 09:17:17 PM new
Oh yes....standard argument...we're trying to blame someone else. Doesn't matter what the facts are.... Many countries have long shared their Intelligence information with one another. Britian has long been a very supportive ally and friend to the US.
THE WHOLE WORLD thought Saddam had WOMD or was trying to assemble what he needed to build them. The whole world thought he had bio and chem weapons. Does that matter to the extremely left liberals? No.....it's only our President that had his facts wrong.
The left blames the President because he KNEW the WTC was going to be hit with planes, and did nothing.
Now he's taken action against someone like Saddam ....and he should have done nothing. Just ignored what the intelligence was showing so that the very, very far left could once again whine that he did nothing....AFTER Saddam proved to them he wasn't a sweet lovable kind of guy they appear to think he is/was. LOL
[ edited by Linda_K on Sep 8, 2003 09:19 PM ]
posted on September 8, 2003 10:46:18 PM new
I'm glad, austbounty, that you get such great pleasure from binLanden and Saddam thanking your country and the anti-war supporters in America for your support of their cause.
posted on September 9, 2003 12:18:48 AM new
Thank me ?
Don't you mean, thank the likes of you for supporting the killing of Muslims while the 2 alleged targets take a holiday???
Not to mention the alleged WOMDs or your own nation's dead troops.
Humanity has many good people with your attitude to cover its flanks from evil.
Enough of your extreme/fanatical ‘patriotism’.
Enough of your faux humanitarianism.
posted on September 9, 2003 06:32:50 AM new
Frankly, I am apalled by the display of ignorance on this board. How can people be so uninformed about events of the last six months? If this board is a microcosm of America we are in serious trouble.
Now, in an effort to shift blame for the Niger lie, Linda points out that we "share intelligence with other countries"...Well, duh. Of course we do but when that intelligence involves starting a war, we check that evidence out. And of course, we did and found that the evidence was bogus and that the allegations were totally unfounded.. But, Bush used it anyway to convince millions to go along with his phony war.
posted on September 9, 2003 06:54:21 AM new
I came to that conclusion some time ago Helen. Have been saying much less since then and will say even less in the future. It is a waste of time and energy pointing out the inaccuracies of much of the disinformation placed into circulation by the mainstream media as many have either suspended logic or never had any logic to begin with. I refer to the right "thinking" posters or I should say "unthinking" posters.
posted on September 9, 2003 06:59:10 AM newIf this board is a microcosm of America we are in serious trouble.
No, we're not in trouble yet. Only if a far left liberal wins the white house will we be in trouble. Right now we have a President that is willing to go after the terrorists....rather than side with our enemies.
posted on September 9, 2003 07:12:41 AM new
Unfortunately Helen, the big joke is that you and I are in the majority and they went and did it anyhow!
Some democracy!
If I had to take a stab at it, I'd say;
this is how we got into this mess.
None of this – Ask the congress or parliament first whatever.
Just ‘manoeuvre’ some ships over there and spring it on the suckers.
The ‘conservatives’ however have a bigger voice.
The correct response can open many doors, but not for most patriots.
Who’s your daddy!
posted on September 9, 2003 07:58:27 AM new
All of you are as silly as school children being taught to cheer for their school teams based on a loyalty of coincidence. Yeah Vikinbgs go Bears! We're number one! 'Cause I my parents happen to live in this neighborhood.
Go Democrates! Fight Rebublicans! Ra-Ra! I'm a Republican because my daddy was one just the same as I'm a (insert religion) like him.
And in your unthinking loyalty you ignore the fact they are ALL liars and screwing the public for all they are worth.
But things will be so much better when your team wins - right?
What will it take to make you look beyond the superficial? No food on your table? No job?
posted on September 9, 2003 08:12:18 AM new
gravid - I have stated MANY times before that I would support a democratic president who was taking these same actions.
I AM a cheerleader for our President because he is doing what needed to be done a long time ago...going after the terrorists.
Here is what we're up against right now. Those who would like us to withdraw, with our tails between are legs, are not supporting their country. If we were to retreat, the terrorists all over the world would see that as a sign of cowards...they have said so in the past when they have noticed our previous lack of action.
There's a LOT at stake right now....and this is NO childs game. And right or wrong THIS president is acting in what he believes are our nations best interests. To me that's much better than sticking ones head in the sand and pretending that these extremist terrorist groups pose no threat.
posted on September 9, 2003 08:23:06 AM new
Your turn Linda!
who seldom addresses questions put directly to her
Can you please explain to us why, in mr. president’s opinion, Kisssinger would have been the best choice to head the inquiry?
posted on September 9, 2003 08:25:36 AM new
I generally consider myself a Libertarian. I KNOW they are all crooks. But I think the president is mostly right in this situation.
Now with the economy, I'll be the first to admit he's an idiot.
With the war, he's mostly dead-on.
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Replay Media
Games of all kinds!
posted on September 9, 2003 08:31:14 AM new
austbounty - I find it very amusing that those on your side insist every single question posed by them be answered...but they, themselves fail to answer questions put to them.
And as far as answering any question you, personally pose, I'm leary to do so. Because you have proven to me that you are a liar and that you take my words and put your own spin on them. Constantly attributing things I have NOT stated to me.
posted on September 9, 2003 08:50:35 AM new
Linda K.....if anyone who is a liar it's you, for lying to yourself about what is happening, i watch the way you react, no mature logical arguements but " insults, deciet, and made up stories " because you seem to lack that adult intelligence to communicate, look at you history books and study the fascist and stalinist's ways of arguement, and you fit that bill to a tee. They used a tecqnic, the Nazis, if you tried logical converstion with them, would not let you finish, they would interrupt, then gang up on the subject with personal insults, and if that didn't work, they beat you up, the Stalinist's would create made up stories about you to justify their insults and brutality. Botton line animals wanting to take over, no matter how it's done.
posted on September 9, 2003 08:50:57 AM new
Helen - Anyone who see's the urls I post can see what you just said is NOT true. But, sadly expected.
No answers, ever, to the questions....just the snide remark of the moment. But you continue to avoid answering the questions put to you. All that superior knowledge and all goes to waste. lol
posted on September 9, 2003 08:56:23 AM new skylite - Let me get this straight. YOU post a site from A.N.S.W.E.R which is a front for different Marxist/Stalinist/communist groups and you accuse ME of being that way?
. Public officials need to be held to some standard of accountability for what they say.
