posted on December 7, 2003 06:58:11 PM new
Thousands of Japanese,,,,,Thousands of Germans,,,,,Hunreds of thousands of English Children,,100,ooo,,,,,,,of Russian children....The NUMBERS my be off,,but,,,,,too many innocent,,nothing to do with Adult insanities died,,,,were killed!!!!!! in Mans WARS!!!!!.........It's just the way the cookie crumbles,,,,,,......I HATE!!!!!! knowing that,,,,,,,pets,,,,,,,the ,,,,,NOTHING to do's with the Insanities, but!!!!!!!! they were in the line of fire,,,,,,,,9 Children today,,,,,,Vietnam..........Oh my God......Carpet Bombings,,,,,,whatever is there,,,,,,,,,,all GONE,,,,,,,,WAR is Insanity!!!!!!! German Horses,,,killed by the thousands,,,,,,they had,,,NOTHING to do with the insanity,,,,,,,,,WE DO what WE must Do to END the Insanities.............I just state the crazieness of what I have seen........in my time and life.....Vietnam........Bombs know no sides.............bullets kill ALL.....This is,,,,your Political page,yes? Just my two cents.........I state nothing Right or wrong.....just the way it is.........MAY Peace be in your Loved ones Future......Coming Home for Christmas......The World Over.........
posted on December 7, 2003 07:08:55 PM new
Everyday in the News,,,,,,,One American trooper ,,,,is killed,,,,,day by day,,,,,,bombings,,,,,,,trip wires,,,,,,,Raise your voices,,,,,,,,End,,,,the insanities,,,,,,,stalemates,,,,,,,,
The children were playing on Saturday in the walled compound of a house at Makur, 50 miles southwest of the town of Ghazni, when the U.S. A-10 aircraft attacked with gunfire.
A statement from U.S. military spokesman Lieutenant-Colonel Bryan Hilferty regretted the loss of innocent life and said the "tragic incident" was being investigated.
The military said their bodies were found by troops of the U.S.-led force near that of a "known terrorist."
The United Nations (news - web sites) said it was "profoundly distressed" by the children's deaths, which it said could have a negative impact among Afghans in the troubled south.
It called for a swift investigation and for the results to be made public.
"This incident, which follows similar incidents, adds to a sense of insecurity and fear in the country," U.N. Special Representative Lakhdar Brahimi said in a statement.
posted on December 7, 2003 08:02:04 PM new
“If the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make; when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in a battle, shall join together at the latter day, and cry all 'We died at such a place;' some swearing, some crying for a surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left. I am afeard there are few die well that die in a battle: for how can they charitably dispose of anything when blood is their argument! Now, if these men do not die well, it will be a black matter for the king that led them to it. “
Shakespeare, King Henry V
Morality doesn’t come into the question for many.
It’s ‘us’ or ‘them’.
One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter.
One man’s liberator is another man’s occupier.
Few in the West will mourn the deaths of 9 children in Afghanistan the other day, in this “just” war.
posted on December 8, 2003 04:29:04 AM new
Thank you, Jack!!! Pres. Bush will keep the troops there at least until closer to election time. Then, he will miraculously call most of them home making himself look like a hero. Election strategies, nothing more - just like his election team is creating jobs and I'm not using the word "creating" loosely. I wonder what else they can create?
"I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has seen its brutality, its stupidity."
"No matter how well prepared for war we may be, no matter how certain we are that within 24 hours we could destroy Kuibyshev and Moscow and Lenningrad and Baku and all the other places that would allow the Soviets to carry on war, I want you [a group of military officers] to carry this question home with you: Gain such a victory, and what do you do with it?"
"Here would be a great area from the Elbe to Vladivostok and down through Southeast Asia torn up and destroyed without government, without its communications, just an area of starvation and disaster. I ask you what would the civilized world do about it? I repeat, there is no victory in any war except through our imagination, through our dedication, and through our work to avoid it."
posted on December 8, 2003 05:49:10 AM new
Perhaps, if or when full-scale war comes to our homes them we can be 'inspired' to line up all the chickenhawks & neo-cons and have them hung as traitors.
"Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun"
Mao Zedong
"The Americans fired rockets and bullets from two A-10 planes into an Afghan village, killing nine children and one man. They claim they were trying to kill a Taliban member and did in fact find his body (presumably sifting through the bodies of the dead children), but locals say he had left the village two weeks before. Lost in all this is the idiocy of attempting to take out one militant with an air attack on a village of civilians. Just how did the Americans think this was going to work out? They could easily have sent soldiers to the village to capture their target without risking the lives of everyone there. What does this remind us of? Israel's targeted assassinations. Israel uses the excuse of targeted assassinations to drop bombs on civilians, and then claims the resulting civilian deaths are 'collateral damage'. Of course, we all know that the deaths are the real intended result, both to discourage civilian sheltering of militants and to deal with the upcoming demographic problem that is starting to worry the Zionists. The American attack on a civilian village is also a method of using collective punishment of civilians in order to achieve military goals. The idea, which won't work, is that such killing of children will deter villages from sheltering resistance fighters. We have seen the Americans quickly fall into an orgy of collective punishment in Iraq (for the most recent stories, see here and here, and now we see the same trick in Afghanistan. Besides being crimes under international law, this collective punishment betrays the fact that the Americans are losing badly in both Afghanistan and Iraq and are starting to panic. They are learning a lot from their Israeli tutors, but perhaps should have noticed how badly collective punishment has worked for Israel."
Xymphora
posted on December 8, 2003 03:26:01 PM new
Somehow I figure all you demo's will blame these ten deaths on President Bush too.
Death Toll Rises In Northeast Storm
Nor'easter Drops Up To 3 Feet Of Snow, Is Blamed For At Least 13 Deaths
It appears all the students missing on weekend hikes in snow-covered western Maine have been found.
BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - Saddam Hussein's government may have executed 61,000 Baghdad residents, a number significantly higher than previously believed, according to a survey obtained Monday by The Associated Press.
The bloodiest massacres of Saddam's 23-year presidency occurred in Iraq's Kurdish north and Shiite Muslim south, but the Gallup Baghdad Survey data indicates the brutality extended strongly into the capital as well.
The survey, which the polling firm planned to release on Tuesday, asked 1,178 Baghdad residents in August and September whether a member of their household had been executed by Saddam's regime. According to Gallup, 6.6 percent said yes.
The polling firm took metropolitan Baghdad's population - 6.39 million - and average household size - 6.9 people - to calculate that 61,000 people were executed during Saddam's rule. Past estimates were in the low tens of thousands. Most are believed to have been buried in mass graves.
The U.S.-led occupation authority in Iraq has said that at least 300,000 people are buried in mass graves in Iraq. Human rights officials put the number closer to 500,000, and some Iraqi political parties estimate more than 1 million were executed.
Without exhumations of those graves, it is impossible to confirm a figure. Scientists told The Associated Press during a recent investigation that they have confirmed 41 mass graves on a list of suspected sites that currently includes 270 locations.
Forensic teams will begin to exhume four of those graves next month in search of evidence for a new tribunal, expected to be established this week, that will try members of the former regime for crimes against humanity and genocide. More graves will later be added to the list.
But nobody expects all the mass graves to be exhumed, and nobody expects to ever know the full number of Iraqis executed by their government.
Richard Burkholder, who headed Gallup's Baghdad team, said the numbers in Baghdad could be high for two reasons: People may have understood "household" to be broader than just the people living at their address; and some families may have moved to the capital from other areas since the executions occurred.
"Anecdotal accounts start to support it, but they don't get you to 60,000," he said in a telephone interview from Princeton, N.J.
Mass graves also contain the bodies of war dead. This story describes the number of dead from the Bush war. Other mass graves contain the bodies of Iraqis killed in other bombings and the Gulf War. Do you really want to follow in Saddam's footsteps, Bear and use his atrocities to justify ours???
Mass graves to reveal Iraq war toll
Jamie Wilson in Baghdad
Tuesday August 19, 2003
The Guardian
The task of identifying thousands of Iraqi soldiers and civilians who died during this year's war has begun with the exhumation of a mass grave at one of Saddam Hussein's former palaces in Baghdad.
The Iraqi Red Crescent, the Islamic version of the Red Cross, which is coordinating the exhumations, said 45 bodies had been recovered since vthe palace beside the Tigris river, now used as the coalition headquarters.
Nobody knows exactly how many Iraqis died in the war, but an Anglo-American research group, the Iraq Body Count, has estimated the number of civilian fatalities at between 6,000 and 7,800. The number of military casualties is between 10,000 and 45,000.
"It is very important for the families to get the bodies back, but this has to be done in an organised, respectful and scientific way," said Nada Doumani, of the International Committee of the Red Cross, who estimated that there were between 10 and 15 mass graves in Baghdad.
The volunteers carefully remove the bodies, which are checked for anything that may identify them.
If that fails they are taken to the Medico-Legal Institute in Baghdad, where they are forensically examined.
Those that remain unclaimed after 10 days will then be reburied in a marked temporary grave at a public cemetery, until somebody comes forward to claim them.
Many places where retreating Iraqi troops or arriving Americans buried the dead are known to locals, but the Red Crescent has urged people not to disturb the graves in order to avoid the destruction of identification evidence.
Ali Ismael Ahmed, the Red Crescent official in charge of exhuming bodies at the presidential palace and other sites in Baghdad, thought that the biggest mass graves in Baghdad were likely to be at the airport. But the Red Crescent had not been told when, or even if, it would be allowed to start exhuming bodies from the site.
Mr Ahmed said that some families were unlikely to ever get the bodies of their relatives back.
"During the war the American soldiers told my volunteers not to go near the bodies in burnt-out tanks, because they would almost certainly have been attacked with depleted uranium," he said.
"We never knew what the Americans did with these bodies, and we probably never will."
Another problem the Red Crescent faces is creating a comprehensive list of those who are missing. They have asked families to register missing loved ones at local offices.
Hussein Abdul Razaq, 49, a taxi driver, was one of those at the Red Cross centre in Baghdad yesterday. His son Ala, 21, was in the air defence, based at Deir, near Basra. Mr Razaq has not heard from him since March 18, two days before the warbegan.
He said that his son had wanted to desert from the army. "I encouraged him to go. If I had not pushed him to go back they would have executed all of us, his whole family. I did not expect to see him again, I saw death on his own face, I knew he was not coming back."
posted on December 8, 2003 04:54:59 PM new
Re. ‘Gun freedom’ Bear believes that guns don’t kill people, rather; people kill people.
Similarly, if Bush doesn’t kill people. Then who does bear????
Do you blame the soldiers perhaps???
Where does the buck stop?
We all know that soldiers/humans will react in immoral ways when subject to pressure; especially battle or command or peer pressures. Our appointed leaders know this.
Lets not forget that the atrocity is also that armies were deployed in the absence of a valid case to war.
Simply if the case to war was not valid then the motive was ulterior, or the instigators just plain Dumb, take your pick.
posted on December 8, 2003 05:06:17 PM new
Bear and 12 etal. Supported this and still do!!
BORN: IRAQ 1997
Re; depleted uranium
“doctors in Iraq report a tenfold increase in certain kinds of birth defects (including webbed or fused fingers and toes, missing eyes and vital organs, and severe brain damage) since the end of the war--and many US Gulf War Veterans have parented children with similar birth defects. “ Bolding- just in case it concerns bear, 12, etal. a little more.
http://www.peace.ca/basement.htm
posted on December 8, 2003 06:47:04 PM newDo you really want to follow in Saddam's footsteps, Bear and use his atrocities to justify ours????
We're following in Saddam's footsteps in your mind? How pathetic.
The difference you don't appear to see is there is a difference between Saddam's **intentional** killing of his own people, and our ACCIDENTAL killing of these children.
That is, unless, you think our military set out to kill these children on purpose. Which wouldn't surprise me in the least, coming from you.
posted on December 8, 2003 08:22:32 PM new
Not a think wrong with my reading skills. You're posts continually make it clear you see your country's actions as astrocities....in BOTH your two posts of the children that were accidently killed, and in comparing our actions to Saddam's. As I said PATHETIC.
I made no comment whatsoever about intentional killing of the children. That is an absurd figment of your imagination. I simply posted two articles without comment.
Each of the two authors had a different analysis of the situation. I simply posted the information without comment.
So, you have made a fool of yourself again by assuming that you know what I think.
posted on December 8, 2003 10:23:40 PM new
It’s reasonable to compare our actions to Saddam’s.
He took steps that resulted in killing of (innocent) people for no valid/sound/moral reason.
We took steps that resulted in killing of (innocent) people for no valid/sound/moral reason.
July the US 8th Army, the highest level of command in Korea, issued orders to stop all Korean civilians. 'No, repeat, no refugees will be permitted to cross battle lines at any time. Movement of all Koreans in group will cease immediately.'
US veterans confess Korean War atrocity
Do you think that your country’s morality has changed much since then Linda?
posted on December 9, 2003 05:48:32 AM new
It was stated, right off the bat in the media, that "Operation Iron Hammer" will increase the risk that attacks will kill innocent people --- including CHILDREN and that this strategy will possibly BLACKEN the image of the occupation forces. In case you didn't read about it, linda, Operation Iron Hammer is a proactive position in which the "occupation" forces strike first...much like Bush's preemptive invasion. Surely you don't believe that little children were somehow spared from that atrocious act???
I don't believe that under normal circumstances, U.S. troops or troops from any other country would deliberately strike a playground filled with children. But when troops are compelled to operate in a hammer mode in the middle of a war, it's a possibility that can't reasonably be ignored.
Maybe someone here with combat experience will shed some light on this situation. How, for example, would you handle a situation in which Saddam was surrounded by children?
posted on December 9, 2003 05:57:16 AM new
If killing is so good and minor compared to what has gone before then how can anyone begrudge me offing my miserable brother in law that would make so many people safer and happier? There is no justice.
