posted on December 15, 2003 09:07:05 AM newI don't take much stock in any of these numbers.
Well...when you retire you'll be forced to take 'stock' in the US figures. The life expectancy rates are how peoples retirement accounts are set up, what they are based on. Determine how much monthly/quartly/annual payments you will receive.
posted on December 15, 2003 09:08:15 AM new "Canada, France, Finland, New Zealand and even Australia's Medicare system [which combines both private and government care] that currently operated under socialized medicine."
Apparently these health care systems are not too shabby based on real information...All, way ahead of the U.S. with the exception of New Zealand and that country is almost tied.
posted on December 15, 2003 09:18:05 AM new
Since your WTO figures were not accurate, according to OUR OWN US figures.....I don't trust the other figures to be so accurate either.
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And if you believe what Kraftdinner says....Canada's having to deal with many problems with it's socialized medicine program. **And anyone who does a google search can see the list of reasons why.** Canada spends the most per person than any of the nation's on your list for medical care.
IT'S NOT WORKING, they're admitting it!!!!
They pay 50% of their income in taxes. So if every middle and lower income person wants to start paying 50% of what they make in taxes, they'll vote for it. But I'd bet FEW are willing to do that.
Even Canada is working to get back to a pay system....so people will quit using the program so much...thus driving the costs up so excessively.
posted on December 15, 2003 09:27:20 AM new
Other than the "nice to know" factor, the figures in this type of thing are meaningless. The countries sited all have much more homogeneous populations than the US.
This is akin to the yogurt commercial where they alledge old so and so is doing great at 110 because he eats yogurt. He's doing great at 110 because it is not uncommon for people with his genetic background to live that long.
posted on December 15, 2003 09:45:46 AM new
And in addition to genetic reasons for living longer is their diets, rather than health plans.
Japan has long been in the top ratings for fewer medical problems that have been attributed to what they eat, vs what American's eat. [But according to my DIL, that's changing too. They're getting fatter as their eating habits are changing.]
"To deny inconvenient opinions a hearing is one way the few have of controlling the many. But as Richard Nixon used to say, "That would be the easy way." The slyer way is to bombard the public with misinformation. During more than half a century of corruption by the printed word in the form "news"-propaganda disguised as fact-I have yet to read a story favorable to another society's social and political arrangements. Swedes have free health care, better schools than ours, child day-care center for working mothers... but the Swedes are all drunks who commit suicide (even blonde blue-eyed people must pay for such decadent amenities). Lesson? No national health care, no education, etc., because-as William Bennett will tell you as soon as a TV red light switches on-social democracy, much less socialism, is just plain morally evil. Far better to achieve the good things in life honestly, by inheriting money or winning a lottery. The American way."
posted on December 15, 2003 07:40:23 PM newGORE VIDAL???? ROFLMHO
He's the guy who was quoted as saying:
"President Roosevelt provoked the Japanese to attack us at Pearl Harbor."
And he had this to say about Bush and Clinton:
"Though Bush's predecessors have generally had rather higher IQs than his, they, too, assiduously served the 1% that owns the country while allowing everyone else to drift."
"Particularly culpable was Bill Clinton. Although the most able chief executive since FDR, Clinton, in his frantic pursuit of election victories, set in place the trigger for a police state which his successor is now happily squeezing."
"Police state? What's that all about?"
"Post-September 11, Swat teams can now be used to go after suspect Arab-Americans or, indeed, anyone who might be guilty of terrorism, a word without legal definition (how can you fight terrorism by suspending habeas corpus, since those who want their corpuses released from prison are already locked up?). But in the post-Oklahoma City trauma, Clinton said that those who did not support his draconian legislation were terrorist co-conspirators who wanted to turn "America into a safe house for terrorists". If the cool Clinton could so froth, what are we to expect from the overheated Bush post-September 11?"
posted on December 15, 2003 09:14:09 PM new
tsk tsk tsk...helen...how VERY unlady like of you to call names.
Must have upset you that Vidal pulls no punches with either political party....seems this quote about him must be true.
Vidal: "A playwright-novelist sets out to defame anything and everything in U.S. politics." ---------
posted on December 15, 2003 08:53:03 PM
What a rude b i t c h.
In a literature 101 class, you would be a spectacle - always laughing like a hyperactive hyena.
Helen
[ edited by Linda_K on Dec 15, 2003 09:19 PM ]
You may read the biography of Gore Vidal here.
I listed the quote above because it was relevant to the topic and this discussion. It's just an observation that sometimes we fail to give deserved recognition to successful systems of other countries in the world...in this case, health care.
posted on December 15, 2003 09:48:31 PM new
And along that line, as part of my daughter's job, she visited the Netherlands and England last year to study their nursing home operation. Data from that study was used to reccommend improvements to nursing homes in this country.
posted on December 15, 2003 10:00:28 PM new
oh....and here's my Gore Vidal link. Where one can read how he does "defame anything and everything in U.S. politics".
posted on December 15, 2003 10:25:10 PM new"Did the college you attended offer a course in civility?"
Now that is funny.
"YOU" are asking ME that? How many names have you called me? How many statements have you attributed to me that I never made? How many times have I asked you to back those allegations up and you refused.
BTW...speaking of authors, You would probably find Mark Twain too far left.
posted on December 15, 2003 10:37:31 PM newHow many names have you called me? How many statements have you attributed to me that I never made? How many times have I asked you to back those allegations up and you refused.
Names: I think I've only called you [or your views] anti-American. And I still see them that way.
But I've never written a slang/offensive word.
Statement/attributed to you that you never made? NONE!!
And remember, I'm not the only one you accuse of that. Deny you've stated something you did state. We're not ALL lying.
Asked me to back up: Why do you think I keep harping on all those blank [and hours later, days later] posts, you've edited? I have gone to look for them to prove to you but found most all are either blank or edited. So I gave up. Now I go on what I remember and refuse to spend time looking, only to find all those edited posts.
So...now I've answered your questions you can answer mine. Did your college have a civility 101 course?
Because the way I see what just happened is you posted a statement from a man??? who is continually putting down our country and it's presidents. You're trying to prove how a socialist country is so much better than ours...child care...socialized medicine...etc. Fine.
But WE'RE NOT a socialist country. Those are the two things I found VERY funny ...Vidal and you, once again pointing out how wonderful socialism is.
posted on December 16, 2003 04:47:43 AM new"Asked me to back up: Why do you think I keep harping on all those blank [and hours later, days later] posts, you've edited? I have gone to look for them to prove to you but found most all are either blank or edited. So I gave up. Now I go on what I remember and refuse to spend time looking, only to find all those edited posts."
Another remarkable tale! Find thoses blank edits and list them here. You and I both know that there are few people who have not completely edited a post but certainly not for the preposterous reason that you are suggesting.
I edit my posts for spelling and clairity just like you do and many other people here do. To think that I'm playing editing games with you is total nonsense!
posted on December 16, 2003 05:20:17 AM new
Furthermore,
On several occasions when you misquoted my comments, and after you failed to back it up, I found the correct quote and posted it here.
Is everyone who edits posts suspicious to you? Whenever I see an edit, I just assume that it was made to correct a spelling error or ubb mistake. You make edits and I haven't accused you of devious motives. On one or two occassions I have seen people so angry that they deleted every comment that they made in a thread. On one occassion someone became so upset that they deleted every comment that they had made in several threads.
It's really paranoid to think that someone is deleting threads to hide something just from you. Good grief!
posted on December 16, 2003 06:54:07 AM newBecause the way I see what just happened is you posted a statement from a man???who is continually putting down our country and it's presidents.You're trying to prove how a socialist country is so much better than ours...childcare...socialized medicine...etc.Fine. "But WE'RE NOT a socialist country. Those are the two things I found VERY funny ...Vidal and you, once again pointing out how wonderful socialism is".
Do you see how you exaggerate my meaning. I simply posted a quote by an author who is making a comment about the Swede's successful health and child care systems. Gore Vidal didn't mention socialized medicine and neither did I. BTW...Sweden is a constitutional monarchy.
I am not attempting to defend every remark that Gore Vidal has made during his lifetime. I simply posted that quote because I believe that it is true and relative to the thread and discussion. Millions of Americans believe that a change in our health care system is needed. In fact, it's a major issue today that people can't afford insurance or medicine
You say, "You're trying to prove how a socialist country is so much better than ours"
That's just another leap to a conclusion with no basis. I'm an American and a member of the Democratic Party.
posted on December 16, 2003 07:48:47 AM new
"Another remarkable tale! Find thoses blank edits and list them here. You and I both know that there are few people who have not completely edited a post but certainly not for the preposterous reason that you are suggesting.
I edit my posts for spelling and clairity just like you do and many other people here do. To think that I'm playing editing games with you is total nonsense!"
Helen
So, helen "another remarkable tale", huh? This is why I laugh at some of your posts. You aren't truthful.
Are you denying you've edited your posts hours later or even a day or more after you've posted them? Are you saying you have never edited one of your post totally? I sure hope not, because I just gave you an example of TWO where you totally edited out ALL that you had posted. Even gave you the thread name so you could verify it for yourself.
"Is everyone who edits posts suspicious to you? No, none other than you. You are the QUEEN of editing posts.
"Whenever I see an edit, I just assume that it was made to correct a spelling error or ubb mistake. You make edits and I haven't accused you of devious motives.
Yes, I do edit my posts and so do many others. No big deal...and NOT what we're talking about. You edit hundreds of posts within say a minute two up to 20-30 minutes later. Those aren't the ones I'm referring to. I'm referring to the changes you make HOURS later.
"On one or two occassions I have seen people so angry that they deleted every comment that they made in a thread. On one occassion someone became so upset that they deleted every comment that they had made in several threads." Oh....so out of all the threads that you edited hours later, you were angry and just embarassed to have people read what you wrote?
"[i]It's really paranoid to think that someone is deleting threads to hide something just from you. Good grief[i]!
Helen
Since I don't think that...I'm not paranoid. I'm just pointing out a FACT that you keep denying. Trying to get you to be more truthful with yourself. I already know the truth.
posted on December 16, 2003 08:49:27 AM new
How wacky weird.
I suggest that if you are so concerned about edits...specifically mine, that you use the email notification below. Then you will have a record of all misspelled words and ubb failures along with comments revised for clairity.
You might also follow my every move and copy paste every word that I write including misspellings, and ubb failures.
Now, when I ask you to back up your spurious allegations, you should have a record....or will you invent another pitiful EXCUSE?
posted on December 16, 2003 08:59:49 AM new
And as for 'proof' helen....here are a few threads you can pull up and see I'm telling it like it is:
Was it EVIL to BOMB THIS POOR COUNTRY? - Vendio Community 8/10
Protestor Died - Vendio Community 8/10
Anti war... 8/10
Colin's A List - 5 Questions... - Vendio Community 8/10
What's With Neighbours?? - Vendio Community 8/9
War And Prophesy? - Vendio Community 8/9 -
5 Questions... - Vendio Community 8/9
Peace" protesters are anti-American - Vendio Community 8/9
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I have taken the time to go through the thread "Colin's A List".
Here are 5 edits you made hours after you posted.
4-28-03 @ 08:49:22 PM - edited @ 11:02 PM
4-29-03 @ 04:00:49 PM - edited @ 05:18 PM
5-1-03 @ 10:19 AM - edited @ 8:03 PM
5-1-03 @ 03:22:35 PM -
edited @ 08:02 PM
5-2-03 @ 02:14:02 PM -
edited @ 05:25 PM
In that one thread alone, you made a total of 12 edits.
---------
In addition to the two totally blank [edited] examples I already gave you from the 'Was It Evil..." thread there are two more. One in the 'War and Prophesy' thread and one in the 'Protestor Died thread'.
There are probably many more....I'm just not willing to go through 3-4 years of posts to 'prove' it to you.
But I do sincerely hope this clears things up for you and explains WHY I refuse to spend time hunting for your past posts, upon your demand....too many edits done long after the posts are made. Very frustrating to spend the time looking for 'proof' when so much has been changed or deleted.
posted on December 16, 2003 10:21:00 AM new
You have chosen some interesting threads, linda in which I made edits and surprise, surprise, you made edits also. You should know that the little red box indicates a photo or a wink that I have since removed from my Earthlink site. That's not something to be paranoid about. I don't see any of these edits following a post by you so, I don't understand your concern.
I could play your game and list all threads in which you have made edits but that would be too silly. Anyway, I have provided links to all that you found so that everyone here can enjoy my edits if they are as interested as you are.
Just some advice...or warning...however you want to interpret it.
Since you are making it clear that you will not back up your spurious allegations because the search is too "frustrating". Don't worry about it. I will do it for you.
posted on December 16, 2003 11:19:06 AM newYou have chosen some interesting threads, linda in which I made edits and surprise, surprise, you made edits also.
But we're not talking about edits done within a few minutes of you or I posting them. We're talking about going back hours later and changing what you originally posted. But, you knew that.
You should know that the little red box indicates a photo or a wink that I have since removed from my Earthlink site.
Nope...didn't count those either
That's not something to be paranoid about. funny...I'm not paranoid...just proving who's not being truthful.
I don't see any of these edits following a post by you so, I don't understand your concern. Concern? again...pointing out who's being truthful and who's not.
I could play your game and list all threads in which you have made edits but that would be too silly. Now with your additional edit I guess you've changed your mind.
It's never silly when asked for proof to give the requested proof....or not...with an explanation of why I will no longer do so.
Anyway, I have provided links to all that you found so that everyone here can enjoy my edits if they are as interested as you are. I doubt anyone is interested. They most likely would like us to never speak to one another again.
[i]Just some advice...or warning...however you want to interpret it.
Since you are making it clear that you will not back up your spurious allegations because the search is too "frustrating". Don't worry about it. I will do it for you[/i]. Oh, thank you so much, helen, I'd really appreciate that. Since I stand by my words and feel no need to erase or change what I've posted...that'll make things SO much easier than you're continual demand that I go find what you are denying you've said among the THOUSANDs of posts you've edited.
Helen
posted on December 16, 2003 11:53:06 AM new
Now try to guess what I originally said.
You know, some of us edit not to change anything major, but because of grammar or we've decided to say something a different way. Maybe to make it clearer. Who cares!!!!!!! Editing is not a sign of someone committing conspiracy.
Oops, guess what? Once you edit you can't spell check.
[ edited by CBlev65252 on Dec 16, 2003 11:53 AM ]
[ edited by CBlev65252 on Dec 16, 2003 11:54 AM ]
[ edited by CBlev65252 on Dec 16, 2003 11:55 AM ]
