posted on December 28, 2003 05:02:11 PM new
I am infuriated also and I have been for a long time that our immigration department won't get off their dead a$$es and enforce the laws.
How do I know their immigration status??
As I stated in my previous post; I personally know alot of these illegals. Some of them I am on friendly terms with and I talk to them and disscuss these issues with them. They tell me in some cases which persons are illegal.
it infuriates me but to say you believe that anyone has the right to decide how and where a person should be allowed to spend their hard earned money
As I stated in my 2nd post and in response to Helenjw; I don't know that where and how they spend their money can be restricted. I just see it as a huge drain on our economy and the powers to be that make the laws need to take this into account.
posted on December 28, 2003 05:07:25 PM new
::As I stated in my previous post; I personally know alot of these illegals. Some of them I am on friendly terms with and I talk to them and disscuss these issues with them.::
I guess I am confused - you are able to comunicate with your server regarding immigration issues but not well enough to say "Hold the pickles and yes I do want fries with that'?
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on December 28, 2003 05:10:09 PM new"One other thing that you need to add to this statement is; THEY SHOULD ALSO SPEND MONEY EARNED IN THE USA IN THE USA." "Besides taking jobs in the US they are sending alot of money south of the border rather than spending it here, thus helping the economy of Mexico at the expense of the USA"
And that's the quote that I responded to yellowstone...your bolding.
posted on December 28, 2003 05:11:32 PM new
This is not a racial issue inasmuch as what I beleive. It is an economics issue. I allready stated that I find some of these people to be quite nice. To futher elaborate on that I will say that I really like some of these people.
Don't try to paint me a racist, That dog won't hunt here.
posted on December 28, 2003 05:14:07 PM new
Some of the ones that I am on friendly terms with also speak english and sometimes I have had lunch with them.
posted on December 28, 2003 05:24:34 PM newracist - that dog don't hunt here. Of course it doesn't. But any disagreement about immigration usually ends up with this same accusation being made. Sad but true.
---------
Immigration is an issue that divides many.
Taken from the Center for Immigration Studies I'll post the link.
The large difference between elite and public opinion can also be seen on the specific issue of illegal immigration. A different section of the survey found that 70 percent of the public said that reducing illegal immigration should be a "very important" foreign-policy goal of the United States, compared to only 22 percent of those in the elite.
In fact, the goal of reducing illegal immigration was identified as important by more of the public than such goals as "maintaining superior military power worldwide" and "improving the global environment."
The gap on this issue was also clear from another question; when respondents were asked the open-ended question, "What are the biggest foreign policy problems?", the public ranked illegal immigration sixth of 69 concerns, while elites ranked it twenty-sixth.
posted on December 28, 2003 05:30:43 PM new
Woo Hoo! I'm Elite!! Now go fetch me some fresh berries
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on December 28, 2003 05:36:21 PM new
fenix03
In case you still don't understand, when I go have lunch with one of my friends I am not having lunch with the person that serves it.
posted on December 28, 2003 05:38:38 PM new
So far, in this short thread these statements have been made by various posters. My point is that your animosity or displeasure is misplaced.
"The only thing we owe those illegals is a bullet to the head..".
"More money indeed.... let the Mex's take care of it, if not send those bodies back..."
"Some came back from south of the border due to poor work ethic...
"However Presiden't Bush's comments about jobs for those who want them irked me to no end, many people here want jobs, they just aren't willing to live like rats to have one"
"Where I live, Santa Fe New Mexico, they are everywhere"
"Every restaurant in Santa Fe is now staffed with illegals and it makes me sick to see it."
posted on December 28, 2003 05:44:20 PM new
helen - But, I just thought, what the hell...another ignorant and bizarre idea. The conflict reminds me of racial problems in the south.
So, hopefully NOW you can see YOU are in the minority that see this issue the way you do. And 70% of Americans are not ignorant....they just hold a different opinion than you. One that's NOT so bizarre either.
posted on December 28, 2003 06:08:42 PM new
::In case you still don't understand, when I go have lunch with one of my friends I am not having lunch with the person that serves it. ;:
I'm not confused but I think you are. First these people don't speak enough english to take an order from you then they speak enough to discuss immigration issues - I mean they must right? Thats how you know that they are illegals. I mean, that was what you said when I asked how you knew the immigration status - that they had told you during discussions regarding immigration status. Or can we please now just admit that you assumed their status based on their language.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on December 28, 2003 06:11:08 PM new
This link, and the links in it, speak quite clearly to how Mexico could take care of it's own people.
They have the resourses to take care of their own. But their wealthy/corrupt leaders don't want to. They want to keep their wealth to themselves and send their poor to America for jobs so they can continue to send those $$ home to help their families, rather than uprising against their leaders. Their solution puts the burdens of their failures on the American taxpayers. Kind of keeps their 'masses' of poor quiet.
posted on December 28, 2003 06:23:20 PM new
And yet Linda, when Mexico ousted that ruling party and brought in Fox who has worked to turn aroung generations of corrupt leadership this country ignored him until election year came around, abandoning programs and negotiations that would have strengthened him and his party and making him look ineffectual thus giving strength to the opposition party.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on December 28, 2003 07:01:33 PM new
Ok fenix03
I guess I have to take you by the hand and explain this in simple terms.
I have this friend, his name is Armando, he is from Guadamala (sp), he is an illegal immigrant. So Armando and me go to lunch one day at Sonic. I order a number 3 burger with green chili and no pickles, coke and fries, Armando orders a number 2 burger with red chili and no onions, coke and fries.
The person taking the order knows enough english to understand number 3 and number 2 when he hears it come across the intercom but not enough english to understand no pickles and no onions.
Now, are you still with me on this because it might get kinda complicated for you at this point. I will try to be as simple as I can, ok.
I am having lunch with Armando, he is my friend, he speaks spanish as well as english. Albeit his english is not as good as mine but he can carry on a darn fine conversation with me in his broken english. It just so happens because of his ethnicity and because he has been here for quite some time he gets around and has made other friends.
Well guess what, Armando knows the guy taking the orders at Sonic and he knows that he is illegal and he communicates this to me. Armando and me go on to have a conversation about immigration issues while we eat. Understand that I am not having this disscussion with the order taker, because even if I wanted to talk to the order taker other than to say I wanted a number 2 or a number 3 there's no way we can converse. I don't speak enough spanish and he doesn't speak enough english for this to happen.
I never told you that I had any sort of a conversation with the order taker.
Your sig line reads; If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on December 28, 2003 07:35:58 PM new
No Linda - I'm talking about Bush. I'm talking about Bush canceling planned talks and shelving proposed changes in immigration issues and programs that were strong issues in Fox's campaign platform. I'm talking about when this adminstration did approach Mexico and deem them worthy of talks they held the adminstration hostage with a statements that talks would go better if they opened up the government owned oil company to investment from American companies and when that was turned down, plans for future dialog was canceled.
Why would I be referring to an adminstration no longer in power?
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
[ edited by fenix03 on Dec 28, 2003 07:45 PM ]
posted on December 28, 2003 09:20:59 PM newWhy would I be referring to an adminstration no longer in power?
Because you said:
when Mexico ousted that ruling party which would have been in 7-00 and brought in Fox who has worked to turn aroung generations of corrupt leadership this country ignored him until election year came around.
So..."this country ignored him until election year came around". Since Bush and Fox were elected in the same year, I didn't see how that statement could possibly have applied to Bush. And besides, the very first foreign leader meeting Bush had was with Fox. So Bush wasn't ignoring him.
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I'm talking about Bush canceling planned talks and shelving proposed changes in immigration issues and programs that were strong issues in Fox's campaign platform.
If you remember back to that time, Bush had full intentions of making immigration changes. I remember, because I was very much against them. But then 9-11 happened. And in tightening security in the US and dealing with 9-11 those talks did get shelved.
I'm talking about when this adminstration did approach Mexico and deem them worthy of talks they held the adminstration hostage with a statements that talks would go better if they opened up the government owned oil company to investment from American companies and when that was turned down, plans for future dialog was canceled.
I don't recall what time frame you're speaking of. That might be relivant. I do remember reading about talks about energy investments...but if memory serves me it was so California could have a much needed new source of energy.
Besides, what objection could you have if the US were to gain something it needs while giving Mexico what they are asking for? Double standard there???? We give, they take...no mutually beneficial deals? Is that what you're saying?
posted on December 28, 2003 09:27:49 PM new
Also, I want to mention, that if you do a google search you will find a ton of clinton quotes where he states that he too was against illegal immigration. He's quoted over and over about how we needed to keep control of our immigrant population so as not to hurt our economy, or take jobs away from our own citizens.
Matter of fact, in one quote he was pushing NAFTA as a way of dealing with our illegal immigration problem. He said [I'm paraphrasing here] that NAFTA would help solve the illegal immigration problem, as it would create more jobs in Mexico and those people wouldn't come to the US looking for jobs.
edited to add a few of clinton's quotes on illegals.
posted on December 28, 2003 10:09:23 PM newfenix, I was infuriated too.
helen and fenix, you'll notice my lack of participation also...having been on this not-so-merry go round several times before. I do wonder though, how yellowstone can tell an illegal immigrant from a US citizen in Santa Fe, New Mexico. As of the 2000 census, New Mexico had the highest latino population percentage in the country...42%!!
I went to a Sonic once in Santa Fe...got served by a cute latina girl in ponytails...suited me just fine
___________________________________
The Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then gets elected and proves it.
-- P. J. ORourke (Holidays in hell, 1989)
[ edited by profe51 on Dec 28, 2003 10:10 PM ]
[ edited by profe51 on Dec 28, 2003 10:12 PM ]
posted on December 28, 2003 10:17:47 PM new
I apologize, it's late and when I posted the above I had failed to read the entire second page. I didn't realize that we had it on Armando's say-so that the restaurants were all full of illegal employees...
___________________________________
The Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then gets elected and proves it.
-- P. J. ORourke (Holidays in hell, 1989)
posted on December 28, 2003 10:20:09 PM new
oh, and don't worry yellowstone, I believe you, some of my best friends are illegal too...
___________________________________
The Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then gets elected and proves it.
-- P. J. ORourke (Holidays in hell, 1989)
posted on December 28, 2003 10:25:03 PM new
Our friends owned a cafe and grill by the San Jose Airport. Everytime a friend of theirs, who also happened to be a SJ police officer came in - in uniform, at least two of their employees would disappear. Never came back to collect their wages...nada. Think they were legal? I don't. It's not like it doesn't happen, profe.
posted on December 28, 2003 10:36:38 PM new
Linda - I now understand why you misunderstood me. I meant this election year.
Yes I am aware that Fox was the first world leader that Bush met with and I will be very honest and say that I believe that he had the best of intentions. I am also aware that 9/11 sent everything into a tither and put a halt on things - it however should not have been as long or as complete as it has been. As you have pointed out, immigration issues are important to this country and the best way to slow immigration, is to eliminate the need. It's not about guns, higher security or any of these other stop gap measures that tend to be most peoples knee jerk reaction.
It's about lending support to an acting president and most visable member of a party that is trying to turn the country around. Enforce NAFTA, and hand the victory to him. This nation has put some true corrupt bastards into leadership positions in this world and then supported them to the hilt. In Mexico, the people voted the corruption out, we should have done everything in our power to show that this was the right move and put the full force of political and whatever financial support that was appropriate to make sure that his presidency was prosperous for his nation because current polls show his opposition is going to take over again. And the immigration issue is only going to get worse.
BTW - the oil company comments were within the last year - we discussed it for about a day on this board. And this was not going to provide the US with anything it needed. They wanted Mexico to allow investment from private US oil companies - not the US govenment. It had nothing to do with the California energy crisis - two entirely different entities. Calfornia needed electricity, not crude oil.
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on December 28, 2003 10:42:17 PM new
Linda - Didn't your friends, the owner and boss of this company aquire the government required pieces of identification and due proper tax filings? Apparently they did a great deal of hiring or their friend didn't come by often if they lost two everytime he showed up.
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
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